I think my only problem with metformin would be the increased insulin sensitivy in all tissues fat and muscle. It would be much better to only sensitize muscle to insulin rather than fat so muscle grows while fat does not.
Now maybe i am undereducated about metfromin and i am wrong please correct me if i am. Or maybe the weightlifitng that goes along with it changes that somehow. I am always up for some extra learning.
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I think my only problem with metformin would be the increased insulin sensitivy in all tissues fat and muscle. It would be much better to only sensitize muscle to insulin rather than fat so muscle grows while fat does not.
Now maybe i am undereducated about metfromin and i am wrong please correct me if i am. Or maybe the weightlifitng that goes along with it changes that somehow. I am always up for some extra learning.[/quote]
It is my understanding that between the enhanced muscle insulin sensitivity we see because of exercise (weight lifting, cardio, etc.)and metformin, that the improvement of insulin sensitivity in the fat cells wouldn’t matter much if metformin was used correctly.
[quote]DrGregEllis wrote:
@BONEZ217 your comment “Pre-diabetic” is a synonym for “American” is so DEAD ON ACCURATE !
I have talked about glucose being a potent stimulator of the release of insulin and currently, there is a great deal of evidence that insulin exposure controls the rate of aging in a negative way.
Exposure to a high carbohydrate diet leads to overall 24 ? hour increases in blood glucose, also called hyperglycemia. High levels of glucose are detrimental in many ways, particularly in the formation of glycated proteins. We?ve identified that obese individuals have blood sugar levels significantly higher than normal, healthy subjects. Individual s consuming the so ? called healthy diet that is high in carbohydrates also experience higher blood glucose levels and a higher level of insulin exposure both of which have pro ? aging effects.
Insulin is a significant inhibitor of the process in which damaged proteins are degraded and removed. Insulin levels control IGF-1 which promotes tumor development and growth as well as a wide variety of other damaging diseases that are the predominant causes of death in the developed world.[/quote]
Great info Dr. E.
Have you heard of Carnosine’s anti-glycating effects? Beta alanine would be the way to boost intracellular carnosine. I wrote some stuff about it over here: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/betaalanine_prevents_alzheimerscancerheart_disease
Also, as you may know, HIIT is one of the best things for insulin sensitivity. Significant (positive) body composition changes in as little as 2 weeks with 2-4 weekly sessions, which should last 12-20 minutes of all-out, puke-provoking intensity.
On a side not, HIIT and exercise in general also boosts the body’s own antioxidant pathways, which would repair/remove the damage caused by elevated insulin and AGEs.
[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I think my only problem with metformin would be the increased insulin sensitivy in all tissues fat and muscle. It would be much better to only sensitize muscle to insulin rather than fat so muscle grows while fat does not.
Now maybe i am undereducated about metfromin and i am wrong please correct me if i am. Or maybe the weightlifitng that goes along with it changes that somehow. I am always up for some extra learning.[/quote]
It is my understanding that between the enhanced muscle insulin sensitivity we see because of exercise (weight lifting, cardio, etc.)and metformin, that the improvement of insulin sensitivity in the fat cells wouldn’t matter much if metformin was used correctly. [/quote]
Ive done some searching on the net to see what others recommend but did not find anything too solid or at least explanations as to why people were using it the way they were.
Would it be most beneficial to use around training to help synergistically work with the weightlifting insulin sensitivity increase or use it away from training to try and create sensitivity away form training? Does it work more on muscle when combined with weightlifting or sprinting? So it works more on muscle cells in weightlifters?
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]schanz_05 wrote:
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I think my only problem with metformin would be the increased insulin sensitivy in all tissues fat and muscle. It would be much better to only sensitize muscle to insulin rather than fat so muscle grows while fat does not.
Now maybe i am undereducated about metfromin and i am wrong please correct me if i am. Or maybe the weightlifitng that goes along with it changes that somehow. I am always up for some extra learning.[/quote]
It is my understanding that between the enhanced muscle insulin sensitivity we see because of exercise (weight lifting, cardio, etc.)and metformin, that the improvement of insulin sensitivity in the fat cells wouldn’t matter much if metformin was used correctly. [/quote]
Ive done some searching on the net to see what others recommend but did not find anything too solid or at least explanations as to why people were using it the way they were.
Would it be most beneficial to use around training to help synergistically work with the weightlifting insulin sensitivity increase or use it away from training to try and create sensitivity away form training? Does it work more on muscle when combined with weightlifting or sprinting? So it works more on muscle cells in weightlifters? [/quote]
If you are someone who is eating a lot of carb meals throughout the day, I would save it for those instances when you don’t get a boost in insulin sensitivity from the training.
Seems relatively safe. Just remember to stop taking before surgery or having iodinated contrast injected. If you look like bonez and it’s not in your chart I doubt your doc is gonna ask if you’re on metformin.
[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
well, glucose hit 160, 60-mins after a large pizza… tried to get a 2hr reading, but the reader keeps throwing error codes and I’m tired of pricking myself[/quote]
When checking your glucose, you really need to make sure not to squeeze your finger too hard for blood, as plasma will leak into the sample and give you an inaccurate reading. Your finger should bleed freely with mild pressure applied for the best sample. I like using the spring loaded lancets.
By the way, most glucose meters are only required to have less than 20% error so a 97 could very easily be in the 80’s. All companies that sell meters have control solutions which could be valuable in determining if your meter consistently tests a little higher than what it should or a little lower. Mine actually consistently tests on the lower end of the acceptable range for the control solution.
Also, if you are going to test prick the sides of the tip of your fingers, not the center of the tip of your finger. The sides are much less sensitive.
IMO I think you guys are being a little too paranoid about this. Unless consistently testing will result in you actually changing something then its just a waste of money. If you are really worried about this then restricting carbs to post workout, getting adequate sleep and managing the stress in your life can make a pretty big difference. You could also always go to the doctor and get some blood work done that includes an a1c.
Tarrom, No paranoia here.
I suggest Glucose testing is just a tool to help guide you in the positive or negative effects of what you have consumed. Its a very good way to discover how cretin foods raise your glucose levels or to see how well you where able to impact your levels post workout.
Just like Ketosis urine strips, checking pre workout and post workout really illustrated the effectiveness of your workouts ability to effect ketosis.
You do make good suggestions but I do think more of us should understand the science in what we are presented and research. We should get into the habit of educating ourselves and others we want to help.
In a sense, we are all researches on a quest to achieve the shortest and safest path to reach our goal. Some like to test theories, others do what others do but we are all IMO looking to strive.
Med pro: what you suggest as good levels if high carbs if somebody is very carb tolerant? How long after a high carb meal (100g or above of carbs) would you expect glucsoe to come down and how high of spike? Also in that meal there would protein but minimal fat
[quote]Tarrom wrote:
By the way, most glucose meters are only required to have less than 20% error so a 97 could very easily be in the 80’s…[/quote]
Did not know that. BTW- you happen to know the accuracy of the A1C home tests?
This is why I keep coming back to these forums.
Little gems like this.
Good thread, good read.
Question:
ryanbCXG wrote: Med pro: what you suggest as good levels if high carbs if somebody is very carb tolerant? How long after a high carb meal (100g or above of carbs) would you expect glucsoe to come down and how high of spike? Also in that meal there would protein but minimal fat…
Answer:
In a healthy person, if you took in 100g of glucose liquid, the average spike time is 30-45min. 60min to 80min to return to normal range and about 120min to reach rock bottom hypoglycemia (This is why most people 2 hrs after lunch are lethargic and starving at work or school struggling to stay awake after eating a Subway foot long sandwich).
About glucose meters:
True the FDA allows for 20% + - accuracy on glucose meters BUT,
if meter B reads 80 and meter C reads 90 then you spike your glucose and check your sample on meter B and get 180, you will see 190 on meter C.
In other words, whatever your meter reads, establish a baseline and measure your spikes.
A word on A1C testing: WHY I dont like the rationality behind this test.
Because it does not address the ultimate goal of teaching people to avoid foods that negativly effects glucose concentration. What I mean is, If you are willing to educate your self by constantly testing your glucose at home pre/post eating, you will achive more usefull data than any A1c test could even come close to providing.
Why? Because A1c is an evaluation of the Average measured glucose concentration over prolonged period of time. Glucose over prolonged period of time?!?!? Crazy!
Again, why do doctors teach diabetic patients to check glucose levels 2hrs after eating?!?! To see how well the drugs they took worked? Thats like a doctor saying its ok to ingest a poisonous level of toxin and for $300 per mo you can take this antitoxin daily to counter the levels of poison you took in.
This is maddness!
Why not teach people to aviod eating the foods that spike their glucose to begin with? How would they know this outside the lab? By buying a home glucose meter and testing for yourself at home before you eat and then 30min after eating.
Is it any wonder why so many people today died uneccesarly while drug compaines rake in billions?
[quote]Med Pro wrote:
Again, why do doctors teach diabetic patients to check glucose levels 2hrs after eating?!?! To see how well the drugs they took worked? This is maddness! Why not teach people to aviod eating the foods that spike their glucose to begin with?
[/quote]
Because most people won’t adhere to such a diet. So, they do the next best thing and tell diabetics that they can eat just like everyone else, except they need to take their meds as well.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]Med Pro wrote:
Again, why do doctors teach diabetic patients to check glucose levels 2hrs after eating?!?! To see how well the drugs they took worked? This is maddness! Why not teach people to aviod eating the foods that spike their glucose to begin with?
[/quote]
Because most people won’t adhere to such a diet. So, they do the next best thing and tell diabetics that they can eat just like everyone else, except they need to take their meds as well.
[/quote]
fair enough, but what about those that really do want the optimal route?
Dr. Pangloss wrote: Because most people won’t adhere to such a diet. So, they do the next best thing and tell diabetics that they can eat just like everyone else, except they need to take their meds as well.
RESPONCE:
Drugs are a safety net or a crutch.
Most people are not given a choice… (especially with the disgusting practice of pharma kick backs)
Understand why they fail, its because the medical community fails them. The lack of knowledge of what types of food you can and can not eat fails them. Let me explain.
If a patient was asked if they want to take costly drugs and live sick or be educated on the science of staying healthy, what would most choose?
You see, if you tell someone what to do and they dont get results, they WILL give up.
BUT IF you give someone info that actually works, you make a believer that will not only change their lives but those they love and wish to help by being a successful example. Think how this will impact the doctors office reputation…
Can doctors due better at counseling their patients? YES!
I cant tell you how many patients I have counseled and educated that tell me, WHY hasnt the doctor told me this? Im not joking when I tell you that on more than several occasions patients have exclaimed in front of the doctor that they were able to improve their health, loose weight and in some cases forgo medication based on the education I shared with them.
I was apprehensively waiting to have the doctor kick me out of their practice! Jokingâ?¦ I have a very good relationship with the doctors I work with and even council them on this perspective. Doctors are smart but many in the mix loose perspectives and get mentally manipulated by drugs reps and guidelines rather than spend time researching them selves the new science that is saving lives. This is mainly due the current overworked environment many doctors have to practice in. Its disgusting and sad!
p.s. Dr. Pangloss, what type of Dr are you if you dont mind me asking. You can PM me if you like.
A recent news story just published also speaks about boosting youre immune system with Insulin Management will help to keep you healthy, young and alive!
Article:
"Metformin drug appears to prevent growth of atherosclerosis in patients with HIV
Published on March 8, 2012 at 4:24 AM ? MedicalNews.net
Metformin prevents progression of coronary atherosclerosis in patients infected with HIV. The 19th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections, Massachusetts General Hospital researchers reported that daily doses of metformin had no progression of coronary artery calcification during a year-long study, while participants on placebo had atherosclerosis increases of up to 50 percent. HIV patients have higher rates of cardiovascular disease, insulin resistance, abnormal glucose levels, abdominal obesity, high triglyceride levels and hypertension, HIV-patients have approximately twice the rate of cardiovascular disease."