One way of decreasing the cost of living would be through what was mentioned above. If people start families young, then there would be less people living alone, which in turn would increase the supply of homes and apartments.
There are other ways I won’t discuss here.
I believe I am quite familiar with truly lesser men, having been exposed to thousands upon thousands of degenerate, deviant, and otherwise pathological people residing in NYC. I, like GB, simply wanted to know the context for the use of the term.
As for increasing the number of quality people, that also would likely result by having men and women with good genes reproducing at young ages and having large families. Punishment, shame, social pressures and mores, all that. There are currently incredibly low standards of behavior. Social and educational interventions would have to be implemented as well. I don’t know how this would be off the wall.
What you consider terrifying is practiced in some states still.
This doesn’t decrease cost of living at all. Not even a smidge by a mile. Wot?
Starting families young both adds the cost of another person (3>2) and moves the demand to higher bedroom homes (more expensive).
How do you possibly financially motivate young high quality people into having children earlier, and act that is completely unnecessary and proven to make their long term non baby goals harder?
You tell them they’ll burn in hellfire if they have the sex without the paperwork. That way people who follow the rules will get married young. Then you shun them if they have babies outside of wedlock.
The old ways are the best!
Edit: almost forgot, you shotgun wedding the ones who don’t follow rules initially but decide they don’t want shunned. In the 30’s and 40’s almost 40% of marriages were “7 month” marriages".
How about no welfare full stop? Then society isn’t forced to pay for someone else’s bad decisions. Then we can all mind our own business and give to charity where we deem appropriate.
Despite the obvious societal implications, this still makes way more sense than being required to get state approval to reproduce so you can be a full citizen
Haha, my girlfriends and I have a longstanding joke, based on the traditional grandmotherly reassurance when things are bad in a marriage that “at least he doesn’t get drunk and beat you,” that “at least I’m not a diseased, drunken, hairy-legged skank!” So when I admit that I was kind of an asshole over one thing or another, I can shrug and say “but at least I’m not a diseased, drunken, hairy-legged skank!” And as I’m sure it was for the men until circa 1985 or so, it’s really very nicely absolving of the need to do anything more than not be an absolutely disgusting human being.
There has been a great deal of emphasis on “matching” one another, and none of it has been based solely on either looks or money. Ambitious + ambitious works whether the pair earns equally or not, or even with a stay-at-home wife. It’s about drive and willingness to work hard toward goals. People have talked about successful parents and grandparents who lived very modestly with mutual respect. @ouroboro_s has said that she’s chosen quality of life over money and presumably her husband lives in accordance with those values. My husband and I have talked about him leaving his current job to end his constant travel. If he did so, he’d earn about what I do, maybe a little less. It wouldn’t be a problem for us as a couple. He supports me prioritizing the people I see in my practice over the money they bring in, so allowing that people no-show or late cancel, which costs me quite a bit of money, if they’re doing good work. I could make significantly more if I cut those people out of my caseload, but then I’d have a boutique practice and never see another poor kid with an abuse/neglect history lift off, never see a woman pull out of a violent relationship and come into her own, never see a guy who was raised by wolves learn to be gentle with the people he loves. If you see this thread as about money and the cyborg thing, you’ve missed some of it.
The problem with my ex-husband, who is multi-lingual and went to college on a tennis scholarship and who has a dozen kickboxing trophies and earned well etc, etc, was that he was both dishonest and a bully. He lacked the courage of his convictions and when challenged got nasty. He sought happiness from external sources (cheating, careless spending) and externalized blame for his unhappiness, mostly onto me but also people he worked with, other family members, etc. He’s just wired for bitterness. He hasn’t had a relationship last more than three months since we broke up. Their faults, not his. Variously psycho, too fat, disgusting eating habits (a Taiwanese woman, he lived there for a bit) (told our teenage son “she’ll do anything I want,” wtf) and lastly, the most recent love of his life, with whom he moved in after a three month courtship, a drunk.
I didn’t recognize little dishonesties as red flags because until I met my current husband, I didn’t know that you can feel trustworthiness. I’ve never caught him in a statement that doesn’t match something he’s said previously, I’ve never had him say something I can tell is meant to be what he thinks I want to hear. I remember thinking several months after we’d become serious that I trusted him more than I think I’d ever trusted anybody, even my parents. And then I had the startling realization that my parents weren’t honest. They weren’t horrific, but they weren’t honest people. Which is why I don’t agree with your arranged marriages as a solution to the current problems.
Hahaha! Are you even a MAN, @pfury? Hahahaha! (AYEAM?)
I would imagine that most of them will finish up their work for the day, go home, pour a glass of wine, catch up with the husband’s day and eat dinner, watch a little TV, have sex, and go to sleep. Do you ever wonder why so many men over time have had affairs with the women at work? Do you ever wonder if after a time they find their women dull in comparison? As a female living in this time of transition, I’ve wondered it.
I work with people on the lowest rung of the socioeconomic ladder. For the women there, a kind man is the goal. That’s not always what they get, but that’s the goal. Really, my joke above is still in play. Doesn’t get drunk and beat me for the women, not a diseased addict for the men.
I would guess that either their personalities are lacking, they don’t engage in good hygiene practices, or they spend too much time bitching to make the improvements that would draw an improved young woman. Which I guess can all be rolled into “personalities lacking.” It’s not different from the job market. Also, many, many woman would rather be supported than work, particularly in repetitive, low paying jobs. Not sure why your boys can’t find them. I certainly know them.
Exactly.
Fair enough. I will continue to worry about failed marriages and failed men and the risk they put these women in, who once they have children are exquisitely vulnerable. Welfare doesn’t pay enough NOT to bring in violent or addicted men. You can’t live in a decent apartment on welfare or working as an aid at a nursing home. Food stamps pretty much guarantee obesity because poor quality foods are cheap.
Wow! Thank you!
They’re there now, too. I work with them, and more often their significant others or kids.
I always read your posts with interest, FYI.
He has refused to offer any sort of evidence that he’s accurately representing himself and much of what he says feels dishonest. It might be easier to take if he weren’t so attacking of others…
Exactly! We each define success according to our own measure. A small saltbox on a couple of acres with a nice view in New England feels like success to me. Some people consider me wealthy, others would consider me poor. But I decide what it means.
Okay, I have to get to my workout. Husband is out running errands so I can do my thing. We would both be pretty distressed if he came home and found me sitting on the bed, posting, lol.
I get your perspective, but he started his contributions to this thread with some fairly lowbrow insults to women in general, and high-achieving working women in particular, then tried to couch it as something he wasn’t claiming as true, just what he had ‘observed’. When people countered with their own observations, he found increasingly far-fetched reasons for discounting their observations rather than actually addressing them, and as the thread has progressed he has gotten ever more insulting and personal in his attacks, rather than attacking the generalities of the ‘average female’ who is being sold a bad bill of goods.
Conveniently, all the people who contribute here are either ‘high-achieving’ or ‘chest beating’ and couldn’t possibly understand the perspective of what he’s describing, and just as conveniently, none of these women who fit the mold he is describing are here to speak for themselves, so it falls to him to speak for them in escalatingly hysterical terms, and represent them against these oppressors who are apparently part of the system that keeps them down.
Tbh I’ve seen this part fluctuate heavily in the inner city of my local metro. That being said I’ve seen this hold up at an absurd rate back home and immediately upon hitting the outer limits of said metro.
The only thing I would say I see change within the inner city is that women want a man who is nice to them.
It sounds weirdly pedantic but I’ve seen a fair number of women who will easily swallow their man being in a gang (although tbh my metro only had 3 that I know of), dealing a bit of drugs on the side, etc.
Intelligence and demonstration of skill are hugely sexy. Can confirm.
People in my dept at work pick on me because I’m constantly using the cliched ‘living the dream’ phrase when people ask me how I’m doing.
But hell, I’ve got manageable debt, me and the wife make enough to be borderline 10%rs, kids into a good school, 1800 sqft house with a basement (which tbh still feels huge to me), have a job where I’m not managing people and I can continue to learn/grow. Plus being a stoner is hella fun.
I think many peoples ‘dreams’ just feel like silly overkill.
Yes, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. Just don’t be an abusive monster. Don’t rape me or molest my children, don’t hit me in front of them. Criminal activity and addiction are acceptable as long as no one gets beat up. They’ll all somehow either crawl by with no money or live well by their standards until someone gets caught and incarcerated.
Yup, this is the piece that I think people in this thread may be missing. It’s not about objective success, it’s about subjective measures.
Which oppressors are also somehow the women themselves, who because of the societal oppressors are increasingly bitchy and difficult for good men to attract and then manage.
If there is to be a return to women as chattel it is necessary that beating them and cheating on them become punishable, and that they be compensated monetarily. Else we have impoverished middle class women draped all over the place, whining.
He didn’t abandon us. He moved after they were divorced. He was always sinfully negligent though. He did some bad things too.
I wasn’t even thinking of myself while writing or thinking of that.
Why would you answer that question for me? You know, I was assuming that you had or have an underlying confrontational or hostile stance to me others that you were hiding beneath the surface by controlling yourself. Then I thought to myself, “don’t assume that about him.” Then I get this utterly disrespectful post from you. Is it not disrespectful? I shared some stuff about my family at my discretion. Don’t you think it should be left to me for further commenting, especially if I were to comment again on my own father. I don’t think I should be offended by an anonymous stranger, but that was hurtful, for real. Even if I were to talk to discuss the misdoings that a relative might engage in generally, I’d expect that people would leave me the decency to comment on the relative personally.
Even with all the snide remarks and sarcasm thrown my way, no one chose to comment about or towards me in such a personal way. I was also thinking, “The guy’s waiting for the appropriate time to lay into me.” But as said, I didn’t want to go with that.
Apologies for misstating it. I would definitely consider what happened, both from this and your prior talks of it, as abandonment.
You think without the childhood you had youd still feel the exact same way? Seriously?
Oh I don’t have a hostile stance towards you at all. You’re a stranger from the internet with whom I share very little opinion.
Not saying it to sound like a dick, but I put virtually no stock in my feelings of strangers online, nor would I advise anyone to do so.
I would not say so, but I apologize if I disrespected you.
You consider that laying into you? You’ve explicitly told me, personally, on these forums, many aspects of your past irt your dad, and how you also believe cheating should be illegal
Once again, apologies if I broached a sensitive topic that you’d like to tackle yourself. Wasn’t my intention
OK, with that I accept your apology. You’re right about some things. To be further honest, and I think perhaps I shouldn’t be so transparent online, I felt hurt.
