Holy fuck I literally loled!!!
1 Like
Because they have existed in the past and exist now. I never called them the norm. I see it as more complex than “all” or “none.”
They don’t, UNLESS they are unsatisfied with their current circumstances, at which point it is on them to figure out an alternative. Am I fat? Okay, one of two choices: either decide it’s of limited importance to me and I like eating freely, so continue as I have been, or change my diet and begin exercising. No one is saying everyone must be fit; only the people who are unhappy that they are not. Must we close all the fast food places because some people are unfit and feel it’s a societal problem? If so, what of the many people are able to eat fast food in moderation, and further, where does it end? Is Italian bread safe?
This was exactly my point. I then suggested that if you don’t like the options that match you, you should change yourself, whether those matches be cars or houses or friends or romantic prospects. You want a car with leather seats and a house with crown molding and friends who have cool conversations over craft beer and a girl who brings a great deal to the table, you need to not be a dull, undereducated, underemployed person who spends his or her time mostly whining that it’s not fair. If you want to punch above your weight, put on some weight. I don’t ever suggest that people must or even should improve themselves - that’s something you struggle with, not me, and I said so in the other thread. I improve only as I desire, for goals that don’t have to matter to anyone else. My personal goals, for the record, have never been about drawing better men. They’ve just been there, looking for people who match them, and sometimes that’s me. It works the same way for me at work. I have several PhD’s on my caseload along with abused, impoverished clients of all ages and both genders. All of them find a match in me - either because they relate to my now or because my history (about which I’m pretty open) makes me feel safe.
It’s misused there, skewed into something that victimizes them. Everyone everywhere throughout history has been hypergamous if possible. Meghan Markle is a story for the ages, right? At least according to people who have nothing better to do than read gossip magazines.
Although middle aged men succeed at greater rates due to their more violent methods, women of all ages attempt more.
And yet this is a relatively new phenomenon. Consider Good Housekeeping and Harper’s Bazaar (first published on November 2, 1867). Cosmopolitan, geared to professional women, wasn’t always so:
Cosmopolitan began as a family magazine, launched in March 1886 by Schlicht & Field of New York as The Cosmopolitan. … Cosmopolitan’s circulation reached 25,000 that year, but by November 1888, Schlicht & Field were no longer in business. John Brisben Walker acquired the magazine in 1889.
So maybe some empathy for the other side here. The bar has kept raising for women, too, with the insinuation all along that if you didn’t feed your man a good dinner at home, why, he’d eat out! Except that the pressure of that included the fear of becoming destitute because women weren’t self-supporting and had no means to become so. So not just “be a cyborg!” but “be a cyborg if you want to be cared for financially!”
The problem was that he stated this of ALL women. And then got nasty in response to evidence to the contrary; happy working mothers. He even received disagreement from a poster who HAS a stay-at-home wife, and it didn’t sway him. I mentioned upthread that I was ALSO home with my kids for some time, during which period I knocked out school. The thing is, Brick, I wasn’t safe. My kids’ father wouldn’t have been able to support two households with five people each in them, and if I’d had to work as a waitress or store clerk while managing 4 children as a single mom, I would surely have been worn down.
Let them find their joy, then! But it shouldn’t be a societal imperative that all women live as homemakers because not all men are good. And that’s really the only point. Women poured into the workforce for a reason. But there’s also the choice not to be there, and personally I honor that, though in some cases I worry about their security.
2 Likes
Paraphrasing: you relayed a story where you asked a woman “why would you want to work?”
It’s cool that you want a homemaker wife who doesn’t have a stressful life. As long as you don’t hurt anyone, do whatever makes you happy. It’s just odd you project that belief onto people who clearly don’t share your values.
Clearly a woman with a professional job wanted that job.
Oh honey, you shouldn’t
You’re missing the point. You’re a dense one. You’re approaching your “opinion” with poor data and projecting from it your vision for the future. I’'m sure you see what you see, but what you see isn’t all there is - you’re failing to consider different opinions and observations in any serious sense, but instead are being defensive about any legitimate criticism. My point is you’re not as smart as you think you are but are doing your damned best to rationalize away anything (anyone) else who says otherwise. Keep being willfully ignorant and we’ll continue to point out exactly where you’re being willfully ignorant with aplomb.
All I’m asking is you consider you may be wrong and to look at other perspectives with the same rigor as you’ve shown here when defending your limited world view.
I recall you called me a dipshit. I might have provoked it, I don’t recall. Does it make it right that you TOO resorted to what may have amounted to sophmoric behavior on my part? Did it do anything to further your argument? Nope. Be better than me. (Amazing to me that this needs to be pointed out to someone who claims to be older than 30).
You’re equating individuals responding to your posts individually to a mob. I’d say what you’re experiencing in here isn’t a mob at all … we have not been coordinated to respond to you in any kind of uniform or organized fashion. What you’re witnessing is order out of chaos.
It has been pointed out that the more vocal respondents to your posts actually have a pretty diverse set of perspectives in terms of culture, society, economics and politics. Yet we all seem to be in agreement that your perspective is incorrect on the topic at hand. I don’t see how that’s mob behavior. Can you elaborate how mob behavior fits as you see it?
Yet you ALSO engaged with those who, by your own assessment, didn’t make a good (enough, in your eyes) attempt to discuss things (on your terms). That leads me to believe you must have wanted to have those (by your own assessment) ingenuous conversations, no? Otherwise, why not just ignore those comments if you truly wanted to have a more serious discussion?
Also, why do you think you get to dictate how the conversation flows? Seems to me you only took serious those people who tended to agree with you, yet would deem anyone with criticism as not coming at you in good faith (at least initially)? At what point would you attribute malice in responses and how did you come to those conclusions of intent? Do you read minds? I’m not asking to be a smartass but to illustrate is difficult to attribute intent in any kind of online conversation
Again, how do you know this with any certainty? How do you recognize it and assign this to any response you’ve received? To any of us you would group together?
Oh good, so you know it’s reinforcement learning not reinforce learning.
But you couldn’t be accurate in typing out reinforcement vs reinforce? Don’t be lazy son. It’s a competitive industry you’re entering. Do you think python code will run the way you want it to if you don’t type out commands fully and precisely? (SPOILER: They won’t).
I didn’t ask but thanks.
Yep. I get the “problem” and I’m not saying it doesn’t exist to some degree. However, his assessment is holding human behavior constant … as if he’s assessing through the lens of homo socialmedius that is only online. His sample is self-selecting and doesn’t capture much variation - how does it hold up empirically to the population and how much of a problem is it really? It’s a theory and not law and we don’t know the impact of it.
My advice to you is to recognize when you’re about to start deploying the appeal to authority fallacy and think about the problem more deeply than is being presented to you. Especially if you’re getting into programming, infosec and have aspirations outside of being what is colloquially called a code monkey (nttawwt … some people are perfectly happy being a code monkey … it’s a pretty comfortable niche).
EDIT: Upon further reading:
Project much?[quote=“greenboy, post:980, topic:248693”]
Most of you already assume “oh this guy is an angry incel”
[/quote]
I never once thought this. Well, the incel part. Angry … there’s an argument for that - clearly.
yet here we are … if it were over why would anyone keep engaging with you?
I know you were responding to pfury here - but you thought it was me. I quote shit you say and address with thought and nuance. How much more effort do you want?
Why haven’t you if you think we’re not putting in the effort (laughably arrogant of you to assume this) and are being disingenuous?
3 Likes
Probably would depend what you think worn down is, whether or not it an objective state of being, or whether we can all agree on the terms of getting worn down if it’s subjective.
2 Likes
He clearly meant why would he not respect what other people want out life as long as it fit into his narrow view of an acceptable life…
1 Like
One of my close friends is a stay-at-home dad. Calls me several times a week to meet for brunch and hang out at his country club just so he can hear me say, “Go fuck yourself.”
So fuck this. Let the women work. I wanna be man of leisure too.
1 Like
I think you give too much credit. I think all this society and divorce and such is just so much noise. This is what he really cares about:
Pulling attractive ass without having to work too hard for it. And we’re all talking about healthy, meaningful relationships and the greater good as if that’s the stated goal.
2 Likes
I want to not work WITH my husband. So we can have fun. It sucks to have to wait to get old for it.
1 Like
Fair and astute observation. My main issue with his perspective rests in his broad generalization of “average” … it’s meaningless when you consider other variables such as those we’ve already pointed out ad nauseum that he refuses to acknowledge. Then he calls us disingenuous and ignoring his arguments … the lulz I swear
I want to clarify while have service and am thinking about it that when I say “education” I don’t necessarily mean college. There are other ways.
1 Like
Asking a question is not disagreeing with someone. I asked her the question because I don’t think she knew what she wanted. I don’t think she put much thought into it. So I asked to gauge her response, to see where she was at, mentally.
This is my point, again, that people are being socially manipulated. This woman I asked was relatively young and she didn’t know what goes into a solid 40-80 hour work week, with a boss, with the stress, etc.
Society tells these women “this is what you want, you should want this, this is who you have to be in order to have autonomy” or whatever else bullshit they sell these days. But it’s not much what happens in reality to a lot of these women.
Yes, there are some successful women out there that love their job, are good at it, would have it no other way but for a majority I do not see it panning out like that.
Oh, I’m totally down with staying home if my wife was making great money. I have a lot of hobbies, I can occupy myself unlike some guys I know that must kill themselves at work to have purpose in their lives.
But sadly most women won’t make that money, and won’t be able to handle the stress of being the primary earner even I they did. I SEE this all the damn time. Yes, I’m generalizing, but it is what I observe, MOST women do not want a man making less, or nothing at all, understandably. Evolution didn’t program these women that way, and nothing will change that.
The current landscape doesn’t even allow one member to stay at home most of the time, and it is built that way either on purpose or out of consequence from more people in the workforce. Why pay a man to do a job you can get 1000x women to do for much cheaper?
It’s funny because most of the women I do know from college (I think I’ve already said this here) were really smart, and got into some great positions… more than half of them are either out of the job market, took on lesser roles, or wish their husband/bf or could find a guy making enough where they could quit and not work anymore.
If a majority of men hate their jobs, and are stressed out from work imagine what a woman goes through… this is a point Brickhead has made several times .
1 Like
This idea that men and women can experience similar circumstances and have such a vast difference in outcome based on sex is nonsensical.
1 Like
Huh? is this sarcasm?
Your experiences certainly aren’t the same as mine. I’m not going to play the “what you’ve seen vs what I’ve seen” game with you.
Where are you from? where have you lived? what is your age group?
It is not.
I wouldn’t want to deny women of the ability to live out their aspirations. Sometimes I feel like Forest Gump when I look at things. Me and a buddy started a company a couple of years after high school. It’s still up and running 25 years later. There are crews of guys at the gas station in the morning fueling up for the day that stopped me and my son, and jokingly told him that I’m their “grand dad”. They’re getting paid and raising families of their own.
I wanted to start welding so I talked to a guy I knew that was looking for help. Started making stuff for places of worship. I had no idea, but invitations to church and synagogue openings, thank you letters from leaders and congregations from all over the world would roll in and get passed around the shop, and we even get to see our stuff on TV when the pope comes, some commercials, and in movies.
Now I’m working in another industry, and the same thing happens. Now I don’t think I’m particularly special, but those kinds of things feel good, at least to me. Can’t spend them, but that’s probably another thread, so I’ll get to the point-
What kind of person would I be to deny someone else the opportunity to enjoy the same sense of accomplishment and purpose that I have experienced?
Especially if it is for the purpose of wanting to keep them pretty or in some way that I find more acceptable?
5 Likes
Yes that’s exactly how you get a high paying career, without wanting it or taking action. Good thing you were there to think about it for her and tell her what she wants.
Poor little lady with no decision making ability of her own. Just a tumble weed blown about on the plain of life. I’m glad you were there to set her straight.
1 Like
Ok then explain to me exactly what you mean. I read it but I’m a bit confused by that statement. You really believe there is no difference to how men and women react to the same circumstance? I mean, there will be variances amongst people of the same gender, and a greater difference between sexes.
This is like the argument of “gender is a social construct” and that boys are pushed to play with trucks, robots, etc and girls with dolls. Even though we know this is not true. Left to their own tendencies MOST boys will play with robots, and most girls with dolls.
Or do you not believe that?
This entire post here is absurd. Who in here ever said anything about denying a woman to live out some dream? or career path? We live in the most liberal, progressive, equality driven society to have ever lived and yet you still believe this is what we are talking about? Going back to a time when women had no agency? Come on.
Let’s stop with this bullshit.
I forgot i’m surrounded by overachievers, the uncommon amongst the uncommon that know exactly what they want out of life and go and get it! My apologies…
however, in reality, and not this ridiculous chest beating bubble some of you have created most people, including men, don’t exactly know what they want nor have any idea what it will entail once they embark on a path.
A woman may fantasize about being a high powered attorney, maybe it’s what her dad did, or a tv show she saw where it looked so interesting, maybe she read a book by another female that ‘did it’. And she gets there, and she’s surrounded by highly competitive people, doing god knows what for long long hours. Next she may start to panic about raising a family as she approaches her mid 30s, and she’s fucking miserable with no time on her hands to do anything at all other than grind…
OR it is possible she comes from a place of privilege, a family that can support her financially through law school, already has her down payment for a home when she finds the one, and she never really has to worry about a fucking thing. Hell, even daddy has a connection for her ready to go at a law firm making 100k+ on signing day. Yes, those women exist .
And I Imagine they’re a lot like some of you here, soon preaching to the rest about hard work and everyone can do it! and maybe even she gets to write a book about ‘leaning in’ or some dumb shit the rest of the female population will read and think yes I can be assertive! and tell men to fuck off! Give me a break.
1 Like