Oddly enough, my wife is far superior to me in the corporate world, especially with communication intensive duties. I’m about exactly the guy Flip described, a welder/fabricator.
I wouldn’t call it a false sense of equality. In many cases its recognition of superiority. I can weld and fabricate like a motherfucker, but so can a lot of people. It just isn’t worth nearly as much a second or third tier manager in a communications intensive industry and world. In fact, it’s worth about half.
Oooh. Did I call you names? I think what I did was offer a differing opinion, which I then supported both anecdotally and statistically. Like what I have to say or don’t, but don’t get mad at me for reporting back from the trenches.
Have you asked the women around you why they want to be equal to men?
God. What the hell did I just read?
Don’t show him Nelly Furtado! She’s a well put together woman who made lots of money in the marketplace.
If that contradiction makes it through his thick skull his head will explode.
Why does she want to earn money anyway? Sheesh.
Let me repeat again
I’m not talking about myself, this has nothing to fucking do with me. These are opinions based on observations and conversations with other people friends, gym people, random people, stories I hear, etc
I am just as sympathetic to women as to men in this instance. For example :
This isn’t radical. America has an obesity problem for both genders. The insult for most men are “get a better job, make more money” and for women it is to look better…
why is this an argument? This isn’t to say you need to be a billionaire, and it isn’t to say you need to be a supermodel.
So when a friend of mine that is single, works a lot, asks me what should she do to get the guys she wants I say to go to the gym. Sorry, I know, it’s blunt, it is harsh, but it is the truth. What else do you want?
I’ll give you a quick story:
I have a good friend of mine, she is a darling of a person, hard worker, makes good money, great personality, funny, etc but she can’t find a guy. You can easily stumble on her bumble profile if you swipe long enough, it makes me sad. She said to me one day “well, if a guy gets to know me…”
I quickly shot that down and said no. You need to get in shape. Is that harsh as fuck? Maybe, but you know what? She was married to a guy that loved her like nothing else I’ve seen before. And you know what? She broke off the marriage for whatever reason… I suspect the reason was she wasn’t attracted to him. He was never her type of guy, physically.
So what guys does she want? the guys that won’t look at her if she isn’t in better shape. So is it indeed harsh of me to tell her this? I don’t think so. This is the reality.
Why is it any different to tell this to a female than it is to tell your bro to “hey man you need to get your shit together, and make enough to provide”
Most women look at income and personality before they look at what a guy looks like. Guys look at what a woman looks like before anything else. Is this even arguable? I mean, you can dance around it, but on average this holds true.
So your example Is Nelly Furtado? lol, how about Anna Kendrick or another celebrity?
Are we going to start talking about how so and so actor got fucking jacked in 5 months and we should all aspire to follow their diet and training plans? You know because he worked his ass off! What a tough life, they’re surely role models for us all lol
Jesus fucking christ dude.
Have you ever seen how hectic a tour schedule is? 10 cities a week. Easily 60-80 hours for performers. Not looking too used up and fat is she? And she’s working way more hours than your imaginary woman.
Just give it up man. Occam’s razor: If literally nobody shares your sentiment, there’s a very large chance your point of view is just wrong.
Have a great evening!
You’re holding up .000001 percent of women in this world as a beacon for the rest of the population. It’s silly dude.
It’s like using “cyborg can kick your fucking ass” as a justification for women to fight men or some dumb shit.
You made sweeping generalizations about all women with no evidence. So anecdotes are sufficient to disprove your thesis.
I really want to help you solve this problem though. If you’re willing to settle for vacuous beautiful women with no standards, you only need to do one thing: make money.
I love the humblebrag.
(No, I am not saying this sarcastically as a dig, I genuinely laughed at this)
Not bad company to keep IMO
One recurring theme that I keep noticing in this thread which I don’t think has really been addressed, but why does someone, of either gender, need to be a millionaire super model in order to be a good spouse? If someone is wealthy, and the economy tanks, are they a lesser person then they were before? If someone is stunningly beautiful now, and would make a good spouse because of such, will they be worthless at 70? So much talk of wealth, looks, status, but disappointingly little discussion about character.
My grandfather was a simple man. Grew up in a town of under 500 people, dropped out of school in 6th grade to work on the farm. Went to Korea, fought like hell through Chosin, and fell madly in love with a nurse he met back home while having treatment for the wounds he sustained. City girl from New York City, working in St.Louis to get away from home. They were hitched at 24, and remained madly in love until he passed several years ago. He was small, skinny, not particularly handsome but not a bad looking man either. Over the years he worked many jobs. Farmer, bar owner, construction, never even close to wealthy, but always able to provide a simple life for his wife and three children. My Grandma worked part time as a nurse, and took care of the children. Apple pies, knitting sweaters, every stereotype you could get. She was a looker when they met, but truthfully gained a substantial amount of weight after the kids, was by no means turning heads in her 50’s.
Those two are without a doubt some of the most respectable and honorable people I have ever met, and had a lifelong loving relationship that I very much hope to emulate. My grandpa was a simple country man, far from the high class city life she had grown up with. But he was also kind, hardworking, honest, and absolutely hysterical. Everyone in the town loved him. Was my grandma Sofia Vergara? God no. But she was loving and nurturing, and amazing mom and wonderful caretaker for my grandfather when he began his fight with cancer. With both of them in their 80’s, after a life of simple but honest work, neither one was wealthy or stunningly attractive, yet I would be hard pressed to find an example of any couple I would rather be like. Sometime’s we lose sight of what really matters. They did not.
Really touching. Good luck finding that now.
And I am in one hundred percent agreement with you about character. Only that character in todays world matters so far less. This is simply a reality.
It’s crazy that I have to keep repeating myself while no one addresses the actual points and instead resort to personal attacks and chest beating
A modern female today want and EXPECT the best of all worlds. Simple as that. And they can do it to! because not only is the spoiled princess mentality being fed from top to bottom it is actively encouraged! Worse, they have the fucking tools to be that way. Many men younger than I have to contend with this and are finding it to be a bit of a problem.
For fuck sakes we live in a world where the Bumble app is an actual thing!!! The power that has been handed to this side of the isle is unprecedented. It’s downright appalling hahahah
I disagree. Do women dream about finding perfect men? Sure, same way that men dream about Sofia Vergara (fight me, that woman’s beautiful). But the ideal someone wants is a far cry from what people are actually happy to have. I do agree that feminism has changed relationships dynamics in the 20th century, frankly I see nothing wrong with that. If a woman wants to pursue a career, doesn’t want to be a mother, or hell even just wants to know that it’s not socially acceptable for her husband to abuse her, I am very firmly of the opinion that she should.
I am 22. I suppose I have been relatively successful by some standards, probably painfully inadequate by others. The men I’m surrounded by are in similar sorts. They seem to have little trouble finding women to date. Has everyone found love with a supermodel? Not even close. But they are by no means lonely. And yes, I fully concede that rich, handsome men have a far easier time attracting all sorts of women, anyone who has visited a bar in this country can attest to that. Yet I know dozens of handsome pricks who can sleep with many women, but get none to stay around longer than a few months, while more average looking men may not be turning heads, but are in wonderful relationships. Now of course this is just my experience, take it as you will, but I feel it is a testament that perhaps those markers of status matter greatly to attract initially, but keeping a relationship is still about character. Furthermore, I would argue that this is no different today than it has always been. The high school jock attracting the head cheerleader stereotype exists for a reason, people are attracted to status’s. If feminism has changed anything in that regard, it is women have finally been given the societal approval to value themselves highly, and not feel a need to have their status defined by others.
While I think Incels are due to many factors, not the least being the radicalizing effect of internet echo chambers and the sense of entitlement that plagues many young men, to say that women are at fault for not wanting to date men who do not represent their ideal attractive partner is akin to ISIL claiming the Yazidi are at fault for not wanting to practice a religion that isn’t in line with their views. Yes, the conflict exists because what you think is right is different than what they do, but why does that mean their thoughts are wrong while yours are correct? Particularly when they dont have a vested interest in you, while you are harboring a vested interest in them? Perhaps it is the fault of the men for not being attractive to women? If this is a two way relationships, why would the onus be on the woman to accept a mans level of suitability, rather than on the man to raise his?
I would not know anything about bumble, been dating the same woman since I was a freshman in high school. Weddings in a couple months.
But the MALE Nelly made more from that song in that movie where lots of shit goes “Boom!”.
That’s because you keep deflecting and moving the goal posts.
This is how a free market works. Women would not be able to value themselves higher if there are no takers. Even if you think this is a bubble, it will eventually burst and return to equilibrium. However, if you look at the worldwide trend, it’s still up especially in Asian countries regardless of short term fluctuations, which is why you should say “fuck you Asians”(fluctuations, geddit?).
Here’s what you can do to help the situation in the US for men who are left behind. Set up a website for foreign brides from shitty parts of the third world. I’m gonna suggest Cambodia and Vietnam.
It’s odd that this is what you’ve gleaned from my hundreds, maybe thousands, of words; that I hold Kendrick and Furtado up as…as what? Kendrick I commented is made more beautiful by non-surface qualities and Furtado I threw up because your post back to me was so petulant and aggressive, “don’t get mad, don’t be mean” was stuck in my head all the way home from work after reading it. Do you realize you countered polite and measured with anger and aggression when responding to me? Does that perhaps bear some (self) examination? Because I posted those pics of myself and my husband not to self-aggrandize, but to offer more than words on a screen that we are not one-trick ponies at my house and that you misjudged me when you made assumptions about my goals and fantasies. (My offering of myself and my romantic struggles, both negative and positive, as examples of what I see when I look around was polite and measured, offering only that your thinking was limited. Here, too, you responded with a sneer.)
Another bit from Promiscuous that popped into my head was Timbaland’s “I want you on my team” and Furtado’s “so does everybody else.” Other than that, the song, while snappy, reminds me of Pretty Woman in that it seems to veer wildly back and forth from “I’m easy” to “don’t treat me like I’m easy” (substitute “prostitute” for “easy” in Pretty Woman). But because they’re a pop song and a 90’s movie, I don’t think very deeply about their meaning when I look for a gif, and I humbly suggest that you stop letting Hollywood get under your skin.
It got a chuckle out of me, too.
Other than that may I say that your post is lovely - I feel like you and I have talked briefly about your grandparents previously - and that I agree with all of it except the part where you say character hasn’t been covered in the thread. I think it has to some degree, though the main focus has been on looks vs. competence as the main attracting element. I think it’s come up in other stories of people working side-by-side and sharing chores. This speaks to character:
I think this is all of us, isn’t it? I don’t know how @greenboy hears what everyone’s saying as being
I hear people saying that looks and/or earnings are not their sole priority, and that their relationships are based on cooperation and teamwork. I have of course been pushing that it’s not necessarily safe for women to put all of their eggs in the marriage basket, nor do all of them desire to. But mostly I’ve been saying that quality people attract same. I don’t pretend that I’m perfect, or that my husband is.
Congratulations!
They tend to gnaw free of their bonds after a few years in the States. It’s not a perfect solution.
Not a problem. You have nice, big basements there.
I am so lost in this conversation that I am not sure if this is an obesity joke…
I mean if you’re okay with what amounts to human trafficking, or trading a green card for companionship… why not catch and release?
They stay with you for the requisite 5 years and then bounce. Then you buy a newer model. Rinse and repeat. I don’t see someone who’d exploit third world women like that having such a big problem if they leave. They’re probably getting “haggard and fat” after 5 years anyway.