Vet techs are seriously badass.
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If you want a timid woman who tends the home and is incapable and/or unwilling to work outside it, go for it. There are women who want to be “kept” and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just don’t assume that’s what every guy wants or your preferences are the only valid ones.
“Chocolate is better than vanilla!”
I consider myself a smart, independent woman. I can support myself, but also happen to be married to an engineer who likes smart, independent women because A) they (or the one he has, anyway) make him laugh, and B) they allow for good stockpiling of retirement money and paid-off houses and worry-free dinners out and such.
I believe that he values me because he can trust me in all sorts of ways. I’m a good partner. If the world goes crazy, he’ll have someone clever and resourceful at his side, as I will in him, and if something happens to him I’ll be okay, at least financially. I would also remind you that intelligent men like to have interesting conversations. Sad not to be able to have them at home!
Statistically speaking, ambitious, driven women are more likely to keep themselves fit over time than less intelligent, less driven types. That’s not to say that ambitious women don’t stay home and tend children - they do, and I did as well. But I think women looking for a meal ticket for its own sake are probably going to be lazy, which to me equates with fat and sloppy.
This pic is from last year, but it was handy (from one of the photo check-ins). I’m well over 35 and have four children. Which is to say, I suppose, that I think you have your head up your ass, and if you want to be able to attract quality women should probably concern yourself more with self-improvement than decrying that others haven’t improved themselves to your standard and/or if meeting the standard aren’t offering themselves to you.
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I think I’m not communicating well enough my points so let me try a little better.
What I’m trying to say isn’t that women should not try to be smart and independent, clever, capable, etc etc. What I am saying is the idea that women should strive to be like their male counterparts = they should be money hungry, career driven, workaholics is not going to work. This Is what is being sold to young girls all over the States right now. Not that they should strive for equal rights, but that they should strive TO BE EQUAL TO MEN IN EVERY WAY.
Women are not like men. They will not age like most men, on average. The same woman doing the same strenuous job as a man is going to look like complete crap. This is the reality of it. If they are ok with this (most end up not being) then cool, if their male partners don’t care about it even better for them (but most men do care, and as they age and as their wives start to rip apart they care even more).
This is harsh, I know but this is biology. Men can procreate way later, they still have it in them to do this and they are still visually stimulated the same way they were at 18. I find it funny that people think these ideas are anti-women, they’re not, it’s actually the opposite.
So the ones harmed most by this current expectation are decent women that start careers in their 20s, and by 30s they’re done, ready to get out, and they start looking around for a guy that can sustain them only to barely find any. And most of them aren’t pretty enough to get what they want by this point.
It’s sad, I have so many good friends in their 30s that come to me to ask “I’m having trouble finding a decent guy, what do I do” I say GO TO THE FUCKING GYM. Dudes don’t care if you are a physician assistant making 110k a year if they aren’t attracted to you.
@EmilyQ good post. But you of all people know you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t arrive at with reason in the first place.
Most men have been told this for most of our lives. How many men actually meet this criteria? It’s going to be the same for women. I can’t even get my wife out of the kitchen when I want to blend shit. The point is that the ones who are naturally wired, and want to do this will know that it’s POSSIBLE, that there are opportunities previously not afforded to them by society.
They’re not children. They can sot this shit out for themselves. You don’t have to tell them what’s best for them.
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All we see right now is people being manipulated to vote against their own interests.
oh come on man.
Aren’t you acting just like them?
My opinions are based on my own observations.
Aren’t you acting just like the manipulators on the other side
In the case of my wife, she was my friend well before I felt attracted to her. It was her ability to hold a conversation with me and her intelligence I found attractive first.
If that helps your question.
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I don’t see it. What I observe - and I’ve lived all over the country and am exposed to a lot of lives at all socioeconomic levels through work - is that people match. Frumpy wife, frumpy husband 9 out of 10 times. High quality women will attract high quality men, whatever that means to any given person. Water finds its level on both ends of the spectrum.
I have experienced that highly successful and attractive 30+ single women (not previously married) tend to have trouble finding mates, but I think that this is because they’re ambivalent about settling down, even with similarly successful men. Sadly, I suspect the question they ask themselves is “do I really want to clean up after this guy for the rest of my life?” I’m going to guess that when the answer becomes “yes” he’s pretty special rather than that she’s settling.
Women who’ve married in the usual course are better habituated to sharing space, and men of course generally benefit from a woman in their environments. Not always, but generally. My observation is that these women do just fine. Fit women find fit men and vice versa, accomplished women draw accomplished men, and so on. For some couples having one partner tend the home fires makes the most sense, and that’s usually the woman, but it’s a foolish man who looks for an inferior, dependent wife.
As an aside, I hung out with an exceptionally (EXCEPTIONALLY) fit woman in her late 40’s when my husband and I did a bicycle tour of wineries in Napa (fun!). She doesn’t work and it certainly doesn’t escape me that if I were home I’d probably be rocking the same incredible body, and also my house would be more organized and a little cleaner. I would imagine I would do a lot of charity runs, like she does. It would be cool. But probably not as cool as I think my career is. I suspect if she were asked, she’d agree with me. You can only clean and work out so much.
I worked with another exceptionally fit older woman at a health center. She’s a nurse, so I dunno.
Our very own @ouroboro_s works in construction, and she’s in fantastic shape.
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I know, but I can’t stop compulsively trying. At least I earn money doing it sometimes!
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Thanks for the kind words.
I’ve been avoiding commenting on this up to now because, in my experience, when people hold strong opinions, no words from strangers alter that opinion. Only life experience and long term observation can do that. I end up with “agree to disagree”.
Having said that, my view of work has changed as I’ve aged. Maybe the change has less to do with age and more to do with understanding myself and how I want to live my life. In my late 20’s and early 30’s I worked in advertising. It’s a high stress environment that pays well. I really hated it and felt like the business was a societal leech that contributed nothing. However, I believed that that was the role that I should want. Work a lot and earn good money.
I have been in my current job as a roofing estimator for almost 16 years. The money isn’t great but neither is the work all that onerous or stressful. It has its’ moments but I’ve managed to carve out a job I enjoy that pays the bills but also allows me to enjoy my life; family, hobbies etc. I own my home, have no debts, no mortgage and live a fairly plain life. I mentioned this in another thread somewhere but I’m in the wonderful position of living exactly the life I want to be living.
None of this is about being a man or a woman. It’s about being an individual with different wants and needs. It took age and experience to understand how I want to live my life as opposed to living a role that I think I’m supposed to want. I’m just not that into working crazy stressful hours. Other people live for adrenaline rushes. It’s great that we’re all different.
None of us can really live lives independent of the other gender or other people in general. We all rely on each other to keep society ticking along. To believe otherwise seems foolish.
I am in pretty kick ass shape though and so is my husband 
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I think this is an under-appreciated goal. Congratulations! Doing this is the equivalent of having a high salary, as most people spend 40% of their income on their residence.
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My favorite is when people try to argue that having a mortgage is preferable. I had an accountant say to me: “you can’t pay off your mortgage, then you’ll lose your home interest tax deduction!”
“So you’ll spend $18k/year after taxes on a mortgage to save 800 bucks on taxes…?”
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I have an accounting background and yes this works out if you’re making enough money in other areas.
Anyways, yes ladies very solid responses but I think the point you both are missing is that I’m speaking of 20s and early 30 year olds mainly. I’m not talking about people like yourselves that have gone through life and came out on the other end knowing what you want, finally.
The damage is done early, people spin their wheels until 40s, and even sometimes 50s. Why? Exactly what I have been saying- they’ve been sold a shitty bill of goods.
And let’s not mention that not having a mortgage, debt, etc is in the rarity. You are a RARE type in America. Most Americans have insane debt, most Americans retiring today do not have enough to sustain themselves. This just came out recently Americans Are More Unprepared for Retirement Than They Realize - Barron's
Anyways, my point of contention is simply that the bar has been raised for men to attract women while lowering the bar for women to attract men. I talk to young guys at the gym, and the only thing they care about at this point is “as long as she isn’t fat” . Another one is “tinder is a place for B rate girls to feel like 10s”. This is the current landscape. It probably doesn’t apply to us, but it does apply to younger generations coming up. It is BRUTAL out there from what I have seen.
What’s worse is that of the $18k a year you paid, only $2k of It will go towards principal.
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Let’s not forget the price of risk that comes with carrying debt.
Steppin over dollars to pickup dimes.
-old man saying
I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong.
Including mortgage, taxes and interest, my family spends less than 10% on the home, yet in 2018 we spent more than I made (not counting 401k contributions). We only took one vacation to visit my parents so that was just airfare. We had no big expenses such a new car. We didn’t even have medium expenses appliances appliances or anything like that. Life is just plain expensive.