So are you saying your work productivity is more important than raising children? If that is the case for you, that’s fine.
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This is an attitude I wish more people would adopt.
I dislike the social pressure either to have kids or to have a career. The two aren’t mutually exclusive either, there are just greater trade offs for women.
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Well I’m not against the societal pressure for women to have kids but I realize there are some women who for whatever reason aren’t designed for child raising.
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As an employer, I’d only hire women if I could pay them less. It’s pretty much common sense.
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So I don’t really have any knowledge of that subset of people, but the promiscuous girls and women I’ve encountered are generally one of two types. The first simply likes sex and is unapologetic about pursuing it. They generally do so safely, and here I probably mean women rather than girls. The second type is the classic “looking for love” or acceptance or a daddy replacement or what have you - in other words, trying to repair damage. Obviously, that kind of damage needs to be repaired internally rather than trying to find an external source (other people, drugs) to address it because typically the externalizers of pain simply compound it. So I’m going to assume (because it fits my frame) that your conservative girls were not being treated with enough love and respect from their perhaps overly critical and/or punitive conservative parents. That’s not to say (not at all) that conservative ='s critical or punitive, but that poor parenting comes from all directions. Well-loved kids also come from all directions, so IME kids from single parent homes or hippy homes or homes with nannies can turn out beautifully. They just need to be loved and taught to value themselves.
Moving to @BrickHead’s points:
I for the most part agree. It’s Pandora’s box, particularly for girls, who are either wired or indoctrinated to feel shame over it. Boys don’t generally feel that way, but personally I find highly promiscuous boys and men pretty repulsive. It’s possible that they’re making decent (non-damaging to others) choices and hooking up with their adult no-attachment female counterparts safely, but more likely, their own self-esteem lacks and they have to keep proving to themselves that they’re desirable by gaming emotionally vulnerable females. Which is a bit sociopathic in my view.
Where we differ, Brick, is that I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. As long as sex is emotionally “clean” and practiced safely, I don’t see the harm. Most people eventually find someone to settle down with in order to form a family, whether coming from a progressive background that calls the double standard “hypocrisy” or from a conservative background that implicitly supports it by making girls the gatekeepers and blaming them if the gate is breached.
But I mean, look at a Trump rally. And I don’t really pay attention to such things, but would Justin Bieber not have dancers behaving in a manner that elevates him (Prince, Timberlake)? I don’t know, because again, I’m not really looking, but I wonder if your bias makes you see the Lopez thing and jump to assumptions about what it means?
Yes. I see this as highly valued still, though. I don’t feel that admirable men have slipped off the pedestal, only that admirable women have joined them there because women have heroes, too. Of course by this I don’t mean J-LO…her immense fame is as confounding to me as Kanye West’s. And look at television and movies…we’re still watching superheroes and military aces. I’m currently watching Blacklist, which is about a powerful male criminal and his domination of both the underworld and a cluster of obeying/adoring FBI agents. Men and women fawn over him. We watched Ray Donovan earlier this year. Same. Powerful man at the center.
Although we grew bored with it and fell away, we kept up with Madam Secretary for 2-3 seasons. What is wrong with depicting a smart and ethical woman in a position of power?
So I don’t know. I respect your views, but I think there’s a bias in them that makes you sensitive to things that support the bias and that lets slip by things that contradict these trends you see. Single parenting and poverty are bad. Of course! But other societies have addressed these differently and had success. You are an example of a successful single parent home outcome. Me too, ultimately.
Fully agree with all of this. I’m not sure whether I believe there should be a greater push to make things more balanced in parenting so women can have both (I suppose yes, I do) but regardless, that’s not the world we live in, so choices are what they are and children’s needs should be met.
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Thanks for the response. I can’t write much now but I’ll address this for the time being. It was simply an example of female power and influence that I used to show that the gap is mythical to me, or that if there is one for hourly wages, it is filled with what I previously mentioned: genuflection to women, power, influence, and protection. I mentioned other specific examples.
I agree with this. I have a former friend who was obsessed with women and seeking them even while married and a family member who was also obsessed. All the men I’ve known that have such an obsession have been some of the most irritating, scatter-brained, and narcissistic people I’ve met. So while they were straight and not seeking something sexual from me, their general makeup and behaviors were unbearable!
Even their affects and expressions are creepy. The former friend I mentioned, even my mother-in-law was taken aback by the look on his face. He and others like him are aloof in conversation because they’re not fully engaged in ordinary conversation; sex is on the mind whenever looking at or talking to nearly all women. When we would sometimes go out to eat, if we had an average or pretty waitress, our conversation was shot! All attention and talk was then on the woman. Actually this went for any attractive woman in our vicinity anywhere!
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Some guys are just asses. I know some married dudes who still go to China at least once a month on sexcapades(great nightclubs and KTV joints) even in their 40s. They used to go once a week when they were younger. Tbf the girls in the high end ones are bloody HOT lol. Oh crap I’m gonna get canceled by the internet, aren’t I?
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I don’t know how such people sleep at night and take the risk of throwing what they have away all for sex with strangers.
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The “quality control”(disease testing etc) is pretty good there in the high end joints and they’re going overseas even though we have these places locally so there’s a low chance of their spouses finding out.
I don’t approve of it but it’s normal for them, though, like it’s a “cultural thing” even in this day and age. We used to have lots of brothels in China and getting second and 3rd wives was only outlawed in the mid 20th century IIRC. Could be wrong about the timeline. @anna_5588
I know it was only outlawed in 1971 in Hong Kong by the British.
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You got it right
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In case people don’t know what i mean by this:
In Asia, these are like strip clubs, only you have a large private room and the girls, whom are employed by the management, join you for drinks while you watch soccer on TV or sing karaoke. You pick a girl you like or multiple girls depending on how much you’re willing to spend and they spend the night “entertaining” you.
Like those geishas you see in movies but lots of sexual stuff goes on. Lots of different systems like sometimes the girl will go from room to room and spend time with different clients but the concept remains the same.
It’s quite common, really. I had to entertain clients in places like these several times a week when I was struggling to build my career. Got lots of contracts signed by half drunk dudes with the other hand up a chick’s skirt.
Nowadays there are even clubs for females and good looking dudes are the ones entertaining them.
I can see how such institutions might work for some societies and not work in others. And when I say work, I mean that such societies can tolerate some controlled debauchery while not having these societies suffer from enormous social problems. It does not work in the US for a variety of reasons that are best not mentioned here.
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There are different kinds of social problems in every country. Walk out of one of these joints in Changping at 3am and a bunch of child beggars will run up to you and literally hug you begging for money. If you don’t give them money, they spit at you and run back to their adult handlers in the alley.
You know why they spit at you? Because their handlers will smack them if they don’t come back with money. That’s why they target club girls just off work with lots of tips in their handbags and rich guys taking these girls out for the night.
Kinda worse than any form of debauchery amongst adults, don’t you think? But you gotta at least appreciate the ingenuity of it.
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The more attractive of which will eventually be sorted into the (probably less swanky) sex clubs.
I have more to say about all of it, but work calls (again! wtf?).
I don’t know about that tbh. Just writing what I’ve seen and heard. I don’t think that will happen, though. The girls who work at these clubs aren’t sex slaves. They willingly seek employment there because they want to make as much money as possible while they’re young. There’s no “pimping” system going on although they have to give the club a percentage of their earnings for anything that happens outside(sex at a hotel etc). And they make A LOT of money when they get the right clients. One of mine gave a club girl a $10,000 USD tip in one night. Rare but it happens.
Maybe at least in part because they know what the government does to pimps
Perhaps. Pimps are generally despised by Chinese people everywhere in the world too.
The clubs where I live work the same way. The girls with pimps normally come from Thailand and they’re either street walkers or work in prostitute dens. Chinese prostitutes normally rent rooms in sleazy areas. They don’t have pimps but they have to pay “protection money” to gangs for doing business in their territory. The ones with pimps are the really hot ones. These “pimps” essentially act as managers who advertise online and book hotel gigs for them. The girls are the ones calling the shots, not the other way around.
The girls from China will pay a local dude to get them a visit pass so they can come over and freelance in various clubs. The dude then pays off a drug addict or whichever poor chap in need of money to act as a “sponsor”(*大伯公 lol) for them so they can get a visa.
*: literally translates to “God of Prosperity”. Even scum have great sense of humors here.
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I have done in the past, as I had no self confidence and I’d rarely make a move when the opportunity presented itself.
I gained a bit of confidence and stopped chasing women. One came to me shortly after.
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I’m not suggesting that the kids are sold into slavery or pimped, just making guesses as to where these guttersnipes go when they reach adolescence. Again, I’m not talking about posh clubs - I know those girls are able to make other choices and competition is fierce for those positions. But there’s a hierarchy, I assume, of sex workers in China as everywhere, and I’m suggesting that at the bottom of it, servicing men who don’t tip at all, much less $10K, are street kids.
But of course I could be talking completely out of my ass, as I’ve never been to China or studied its sex trades.
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