[quote]Cortes wrote:
Well we could always use a few good men…
[/quote]
Hmmm… I had no idea you rolled that way Cortes 
You know I had to throw that in there, you left that door way too open for me to ignore.
[quote]js888 wrote:
Lurker? That’s me!
I had let off some lurker steam on some other thread a few days back, but here are some rational thoughts:
I realize that the vets here like yourself, Bonezz(sp?) and whoever else see what you guys do and say on the forums as necessary sometimes, but it can be overboard.
One thing you guys have to realize is that everyone behind the keyboard is some dude lookin to enhance his body, as we all are. Everybody here started in the same spot: not knowing anything about steroids. And while it may more “respectful”, “wise”, “intelligent”, whatever, to read every sticky and to cruise the forums for weeks looking for knowledge before posting (and sometimes it can be different info from different sites anyway), not everybody will do it, or even close to it.
I don’t think it is someone’s place to bash on somebody for being “too small”, “too young” whatever…Refer him to the sticky, or dont even respond if you don’t want to help. No sense in bashing him, he will just go to a less knowledgeable forum and probably be in a worse situation; now how is that helping him? If he had asked you in person through a friend or something, you probably would have been more helpful and less condescending, and if not, I would be willing to bet I can count the number of friends you have on one hand.
We all want the same thing in the end from the use of steroids, respect and admiration.
Just from cruising the forums and trying to learn as much as I can I realize that out of many steroid forums I have been on in the past 2 weeks, this is by far the least friendly…but, the most knowledgeable.
I understand it’s a great place to get critiqued on your cycles, but there WILL be people that post shitty info hoping to get feedback. He has to learn somehow…hell, i wouldn’t know much of what I do if I hadn’t read many threads where guys had been bashed for saying something “stupid” on this forum.
All I’m saying is lighten up a bit…if you really don’t want to help people(and that includes n00bs or “trolls”), then pretend to atleast, or don’t help at all.
Posters’ tendencies I’ve noticed over the past couple of weeks.
Bones- bashes people sometimes…but can be helpful too
saps- helpful
rrjc- annoying, just follows the vets…don’t know if what he is saying is true or if he is just looking for attention
cortes- prob same as bones
Wyldflower(sp?)- from what I’ve gathered… what a jackass
BBB- helpful
DetroitLionsBaby- pretty helpful
BTW- I don’t care if I didn’t spell something correctly or use perfect grammar; its just a damn forum.[/quote]
To address Cortes and your and everyone’s point here’s my 2 cents:
I joined TNation like 5 years ago. Back then I didnt know dick about AAS. I had tried Mag10 and wanted to take things to the next level. I read and lurked as you said [Im sure many lurk]. Anyway, I made mistakes because I was too timid to put myself on the line and look like a noob or a fool. For better or for worse I plodded along on my own for years posting rarely the first 2-3 years. I was no expert and felt it irresponsible to speak out of ignorance.
As the years have gone by I’ve become more vocal and helpful with input just because my own personal experience has grown. For me the bottomline is this I would have killed to know 5 years ago what I know now. I certainly dont have all or maybe not even most of the answers. But I do have many and I do have many years and many cycles of experience. I personally have always strived to be constructive and be positive and be helpful. Because thats me living by the Golden Rule. I would have wanted someone to be that way for me way back when. To be fair years ago there was a person or two who took extra time to respond to PM’s and whatnot.
I think Bones217 said he gets a lot of PM’s. In my prime here on this site last year I was probably getting 20-25 PM’s a week and I assure you I would answer each and every one. Its probably why I have a proportionally small post count for a 5 years vet; I spend so much time answering PM’s. Equally true, I tend to appear on this site for 6-8 months and then disappear for awhile.
But to a man I can confidently say I am probably one of the few who everyone would say is a nice stand-up guy and “helpful.” For me its a personal choice. I absolutely do empathize with the other vets who post more than me. I get that its frustrating to see the same questions over and over and over again. Especially when often times the answers are in the Stickies.
So in sum, my thanks to js888 for considering me helpful for in all honesty that is my personal aspiration. For Cortes, I was once a noobie and graduated into a vet [IMHO]. Yet I’ve never lost that memory of what noobs are going thru and dealing with. Perhaps thats why it might appear on the surface that I am less prone to retaliation and outbursts. Im not judging anyone else. Im merely stating my own views on this poignant subject.
Bondslave:
No one is disagreeing with you. He had a question, and got an honest answer. Would you rather have it any other way? I was not trying to be disrespectful to him when I responded, and I did not incline to do so until he did. So why are you upset with my responses? You are only giving into the “elitist bastard” notion that Cortes first mentioned.
I love the information on this forum, and i respect many of the people that are on it and provide it.
It is interesting to see the different personalities on this forum. Once you post a couple thousand times I guess you start to become friends and even co dependent on your “online buddies” for support. I can see no other reason why you would say “remain a lurker”, than if you felt the need to “protect” your buddy. I only gave an answer to a question.
This will probably be my last post on this forum; I’ve pretty much gotten the info out of the forum I needed for my first cycle. Even with these few posts I’m sure I’ve gotten some of the “old timers” riled up, and you’re probably glad to see a free speaker leave the forum (it’s interesting to hear you associate me/my actions with communism, Cortes, if I remember correctly, you posted this thread because people were associating you and others with an elitist POV). But this does not mean I’m not grateful for all of the info, hopefully I’ll have a successful cycle.
Now its time to turn my attention back to graduating university and chasing girls (and cycle of course ;))…Bondslave, sounds like you should do the same, if feasible.
[quote]saps wrote:
So in sum, my thanks to js888 for considering me helpful for in all honesty that is my personal aspiration. For Cortes, I was once a noobie and graduated into a vet [IMHO]. Yet I’ve never lost that memory of what noobs are going thru and dealing with. Perhaps thats why it might appear on the surface that I am less prone to retaliation and outbursts. Im not judging anyone else. Im merely stating my own views on this poignant subject.[/quote]
Good stuff, I’d hope this would be an ideal POV for all vets! Much appreciated.
The vets/people on this board rock, keep up the good work!
Your posts annoy me js888, that is all. You’re reading way too deeply into something so trivial there socrates. Just like you did with Cortes’ posts. Lighten up and stop trying so hard to be a jackass, that would help.
[quote]js888 wrote:
Hahahaha, my rules? Didn’t know I had stated any.
But I’m sure it can’t already get any less fun than the way you’re running this thread.
You called on people for input, so I gave it. Sounds like you don’t take criticism from people well, explains a lot. You said earlier that your comments can be “nothing but tough love. And if you don’t love it, tough”, I’ll just ask you to take your own advice on this one, bud.[/quote]
Say what you will, at least my retorts are at least slightly witty or attempt to entertain in some manner. All you’ve done since you’ve come here is whine.
Boo freakin hoo.
You tell me:
For me it started with the website in '98 reading Dan Duchain(then he well…died ya know). Then it Strasser with his Strasseroids articles were great. Although I will say the 2wk on/2wk off protocol was probably one of the more asanine cycles I’ve tried even though in theory it made sense at the time. Finally it was the forums with which I became completely engulfed in from '02/'03-about 05’ish and then lost interest in answering all the same questions over and over again.
I remember on guy in particular was very helpful and his handle was ‘Rainbow’ and was a male nurse. I know I know sounds really gay but the guy was very cool and quite helpful(I wonder what ever happened to him)? Anyways sorry for the trip down memory lane, I do think the legit questions and answers are very helpful for most people and I also think if I need my memory refreshed about a particular protocol most will be more than happy to help.
Thats why I LOVE YOU GUYS…SNIFF SNIFF HUH Okay, better now, Also there maybe new info out that I haven’t read which someone would be kind enough to inform me of in a non-dick sort of way. Overall T-Nation gets an A+ in my book.
Oh and guys I’m gonna be gone for a couple of months(fill in details later). So when I am back in oh say March’ish sometime if I say or ask something stoopid, please be nice.
To Bonez-Can’t we be friends and all just get along bro? I was just yank’n your chain a few weeks back with the hot pants bit. Yes, I get it, you’re knowledgeable. Thats not in question, but ya could be a lil nicer dude. Seriously I like ya man… just relax a bit.
Cortes-Thanks for actually answering that guy’s question. I’m sure he did.
Everyone else- Who cares if we’re a little sarcastic or “funny” sometimes. I see the humor in a lot of the responses and the info is almost always correct and if it isn’t, it’s so far off(on purpose) the OP needs help if they do actually believe it. Take Care guys cya in a few mos. J23- Out
As another lurker, I think the level of technical knowledge on this forum is great, and with post by people like Bill Roberts you wont get much more detailed info anywhere on the net if you ask a reasonable question. There is a fair amount of rookie bashing, but you get A LOT of stupid questions and this isnt a place you’re gonna get spoon fed, which actually keeps the general level of discussion a little more advanced, and the forum is better off for it.
As an observer I think one thing to most of the vets dont often take into account is that many people dont only run cycles to put on as much mass as humanly possible and everyone isnt a typical size oriented bodybuilder (recreational or pro), and yes people often dont state their real goals, but sometimes you fail to see why some people would prefer slower/less growth as a trade off for other factors.
That said, I really cant complain, i usually pop in just to learn more stuff from other posts as opposed to asking specific questions. And lastly, the stickies are a fantastic resource, thanks to those who put them together.
Most helpful forum in the world! But i have good AND bad things to say, so bear with me.
I’ve learnt immensly on here. I joined in 2007 - but back then i was only interested in training to build muscle (as i had been competing Muay Thai a couple of years and was looking to go up a weight class).
However, around late 2008 my interest in pharmacology grew and i found myself drawn exclusively to the steroid forum.
In that time, the advice that i received from Brook/J-J to begin with was INVALUABLE, and then Bill Roberts, Bushidobadboy, Westclock, Cortes and most recently morepain has become my favourite poster.
Other places may be more friendlier - but the wealth of knowledge and EXPERIENCE, you get here is unparalleled.
I’m into my first cycle now, started about a month ago, and i could have never designed something so close to perfect for my goals right now if it weren’t for this forum.
I spent a year and a half researching (some could say OVER researching) this field before dipping my toes in - and that meant reading every thing i could scour on the internet from all the meso articles, big cat and all the broknowledge etc - which was later fine tuned by throwing crazy suggestions on here to see whatup.
i thank you.
Having said that, yes the majority of you are elitist pricks (i mean that in a nice way, i can be a prick too). What is up with that? This is so unecessary. It was pretty sad watching Brook disappear up his own arsehole.
I mean, “cliques” are expected on any internet forum - but some of you “vets” are taking the piss. Like bunch of fucking children sometimes. And i do refer to that Gregus thread - like why the hell are you even getting drawn into pointeless arguments with him? Who gives a shit?
More than that, you guys take it waaaay personally if someone challenges your long-held beliefs, even if you are wrong, you have a problem admitting it, cos you think your “identities” as steroid gurus are being challenged - and that’s some kind of ego-trip you can’t handle. Especially from someone with less practical experience but more “scientific” knowledge comes along, that gets RIGHT on some of you tits.
In fact, some of the “vets” have an unhealthy obsession in trying to put people in their place and maintain some sort of T-Nation steroid mafia hierarchy. This is nothing but ego and very unbecoming for grown men to engage in this sort of behaviour.
Finally, one of the reasons that MY persaonlity grates on some, is that i don’t give you the “respect” that you think you deserve. I give you the respect that I think you deserve - which is a different thing. I don’t think any of you are better than me, we’re all equals as far as i’m concerned - even if i’ve only JUST started my steroid journey. I know that grates with some of you, but i’m comfortable with my own knowledge which is ample in some areas and exceeds that of some of you peoples in some sport/athleticism/pharmacology related areas. But i also know the limits of my own knowledge - and i don’t have to prove anythign to you.
Which is why i use this forum the way I need to use it. I don’t go around, like some rookies, divulging to you lot my diet, or my training, or my age, or my height, or my weight or anythign else about my lifestyle for you lot to critique. That’s none of your business - and it is divulged to you on a “need to know basis”. Some of the n00bs foolishly do this, thinking they will get better help, and in some cases they will, but generally some of the avice here is so tailored towards BODYBUILDING ELITES that the average guy has no business listening to someone telling him “Well eat 10,000 calories until you are 300lbs and THEN consider steroids!” lol
But i don’t care, your personalities are irrelevant, as long as i can get what i want outta here, i’ll be around.
peace.
I have been a lurker on here since 2003, so I feel qualified to some degree to comment on this.
I have learned a great deal about AAS and based upon information gathered from this site and forum decided to begin using AAS.
I have found BBB and Prisoner (P22 formerly) to be particularly helpful, both who have answered PM’s and helped me. The amount of knowledge one gathers is largely down to their own desire to read and research, I have chosen to direct my energy towards my profession and am happy to posses a mediocre knowledge of AAS as I use only basic cycles with straightforwards PCT, obviously at times I turn to help here, like with my acne for example.
I have read some posts where I thought some of the vets had over reacted and gone over the top slightly, though i know how frustrating this can be when people ask me stupid questions in my work when its obvious they’re too lazy to do their own homework.
There was one person in particular who did his first cycle in about 2005 and who now considers himself a vet (who I haven’t seen around for a while) who since then has lost all of his humility and has been very abusive and over the top in some of his posts who I personally feel has just turned into a prick.
The bottom line is, from my perspective, I came here to learn and I did learn, there’s plenty more here for me to learn and many people for me to learn from, and when i needed help I asked for it and got it.
Thanks Guys, especially BBB and prisoner
I was fairly ignorant and definitely under educated regarding aas to consider making ANY choices when I joined this forum. MANY of the regulars/vets ( I would say most) were extremely helpful in tutoring me along and helping me to make informed decisions. Sure, sometimes they get pissed at you for asking a question that’s been answered 100’s of times already, who wouldn’t.
I think that too many people assume that any and ALL information available to them on the internet should come without a cost. We're getting spoiled, how did the vets get THEIR information? Hours and hours of reading, possibly risking health experimenting on their own bodies?
WE think we should be able to “walk” up and say “what’s the magic formula” and instantly get all of the answers the vets worked SO HARD to get! WTF? I’ve gained some extensive knowledge in the areas that I sought information in. Getting ragged on once in a while, in my mind, is a SMALL price to pay for free medical advice and education. I think the dissatisfied customers here ought to man up and get a little thicker skin, so to speak.
I will close now, but must say that I’m 48 years old, 5’6" tall @ over 230 lbs and in THE BEST shape of my life and I owe most of that to this forum!!!
Again, Wyldflower, go back to gay.com
[quote]idowhatican wrote:
Again, Wyldflower, go back to gay.com[/quote]
Whats the point of this, at this stage?
If he has done something to you that you really can’t let go, whatever, but if you’re just doing this to provoke a response it’s actually more annoying than his rants about his ‘super penis’.
He’s weird, awkward, annoying. Oh well. He obviously isn’t leaving. If he posts bad or possibly dangerous information, go ahead flame away or report the post. Or completely disregard this and go about your business. Either way I don’t actually care.
[quote]js888 wrote:
rrjc- annoying, just follows the vets…don’t know if what he is saying is true or if he is just looking for attention
[/quote]
Sorry you feel that way, bud. As for ‘following the vets’ who would you like me to follow? I’ve been on these forums long enough, and read the steroid forum religiously for close to a year before ever posting/offering advice. It doesn’t take long to realize who knows their shit around here.
I, for one, feel confident in my knowledge (which comes from this forum) in AAS to offer the advice I give, which is usually fairly basic. I will not give advice on topics I’m unsure of.
That said, if the vets (you know who you are) find my posts to be out of line or of shitty advice, I’d like you to call me out on this thread, and I’ll stop posting. NOTE: I am NOT fishing for compliments, so if you don’t mind my posts on here, don’t say anything. If you do mind my posts, tell me to fuck off, and I will.
THAT said… This forum has been extremely helpful in learning about AAS. If I used steroids in the manner that you find most other forums on the internet, or gym-buddy bro knowledge, I wouldn’t have had the success I’ve had using. Even though there is the ‘tough love’ attitude on here, anyone who comes on here and has a legitimate cycle plan and gets advice from the vets should consider themselves very lucky.
[quote]timhlbrk wrote:
I think that too many people assume that any and ALL information available to them on the internet should come without a cost. We're getting spoiled, how did the vets get THEIR information? Hours and hours of reading, possibly risking health experimenting on their own bodies?
[/quote]
Just to add to this a little bit, if I may.
A lot of times people will say (just a general example) “I bet you wouldn’t answer the way you did to someone’s face”. That’s damn true. I don’t speak the same way here as I do in person. And guess what, the fools who come in here bitching that they are getting flamed and being disrepsected are acting differently than they normally do in person also. I have never ever seen someone come up to me or any of the other guys in my gym bigger than I and just outright ask “how to improve their dbol cycle”. In real life people tend to establish some sort of relationship with a person before asking a questions like this (maybe not in country where this stuff isn’t illegal though, I don’t know). And if that question does come up at some point after knowing someone I’ve never experienced someone get pissy when they are told why their cycle is flawed to some degree. People just act differently on the internet. The extent of which is based on the person. That’s just the way it is.
It is rare to see someone get continuously flamed if they show that accquiring knowledge is the number one goal. Everyone has asked a stupid question at one point. Not everyone responds to the flaming by by asking whether the person responding to their stupid question has ‘roid rage’ or ‘estrogen rebound from PCT’. The projection of entitlement is what get’s the shit talking started.
Why Bonez, that’s the sweetest thing you’ve ever said about me!
I don’t actually have a super penis. I have a very average penis. It was around 6inches at the beginning of this year, but i’ve taken to jelqing which DOES WORK, and now i’m cruising at 6.5inches. I’m hoping the collagen promotion of testosterone and my jelqing will see me inching towards 7/7.5 which is my target. Jelqing DOES work, everybody check out Cheeky Cherry forums. I tried to do it three times a week on strength training days cos i’m too tired after conditioning work outs.
I have learned all I know of AAS from this site. I have been bashed but I had it comming. You guys are great and have made a big difference in my life. I also am on TRT now and am not breaking any laws by getting a script. I screwed around a good part of my life working hard at my fitness goals. I never got in shape until I got on TRT. If I only knew this in my kickboxing days. I could never get lean enough.
Now for the best part. Due to my relative fitness look sometimes I have been asked if I am a trainer and today I got a christmas gift(protein bars) at the gym today from a girl I helped. ALL of this was in front of my wife and BOY is she PISSED… Hell ya you guys have helped.
Special thanks to Cortes, Brook and Bill Roberts.