Wow this thread is pathetic. Who gives a shit if you are a hardgainer? Just lift fucking weights and eat food like a man. You ar enaturally skinny? Boo fucking hoo. Go eat a burger.
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Wow this thread is pathetic. Who gives a shit if you are a hardgainer? Just lift fucking weights and eat food like a man. You ar enaturally skinny? Boo fucking hoo. Go eat a burger.[/quote]
Yeah… none of my fellow trainees read sites like this one, so they’ve never heard the term hardgainer.
If we had talked ourselves into believing that we were hardgainers and whatnot, we probably would have stopped training after a year…
The net only helps if you’re able to filter the info…
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Wow this thread is pathetic. Who gives a shit if you are a hardgainer? Just lift fucking weights and eat food like a man. You ar enaturally skinny? Boo fucking hoo. Go eat a burger.[/quote]
Haha, great advice, thanks man I never thought of that! Who said they were complaining? I’m just clarifying.
It seems to me that people have lost the meaning of “hardgainer” and think that people use it as an excuse when it’s not…it’s just painting a bigger picture.
It would be like me going to an obese forum (the majority of which are likely big boned, slow metabolism etc) and ranting on about how all the “fatties” need to stop complaining and just do some exercise because it’s easy to loose fat! I can’t say to someone who’s naturally bulky and fat that they aren’t working hard enough because they don’t burn fat as fast as me - that would be ridiculous…which is what people on here are doing.
Me and my brother went on a fat loss diet together, we ate the same total calories and did the same workouts. He never lost much, but my fat was melting off. I made him reduce his calories more, and he kept up with the cardio…I still overtook him despite not doing any cardio.
MY fat loss was twice his fat loss, but does that mean that he did less work? No, the hormonal balance was the difference and he actually did more work than I did.
If my brother were to say to someone that he’s an endomorph, would that be making up excuses? No, it’s a fact.
If you know you are a hargainer (i.e. ectomorph), then this should make your goals far more clearer…not make you give up sooner. To the contrary, not knowing that you need to eat much more than the average bodybuilder is what will make you give up sooner! You will not see results and could give up due to discouragement.
its_just_me,
I agree with your point that there are people who are not gifted in the least bit for this sport and have to overcome this to become something special. However people ARE using it as an excuse for why they never even look like they have picked up a barbell. If someone looked at it rationally(like you seem to do) and said “well this is my genetic predisposition, I have to do this this and this more/harder than the people around me, so be it” than this wouldn’t even be an issue.
Same with the other side of the fence about guys who can gain muscle but at the expensive of significant bodyfat. They just need to be accountable and rationale in their decision making processes and get to work with what they’ve got.
That’s the issue here is that people aren’t able to comprehend these things and give up or blame their lack of progress(any at all) on their genetics or that everyone else is on drugs.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
On another note, almost every male over here in europe looks anorexic when untrained (me included), and none of those guys at my gym had any problems reaching 18+ inches within 3-4 years of training, even though we started out at 11-12 inch arms or so.
We all have a narrow, thin build and all,
just focus on eating plenty, use digestive aids
(important for me anyway, would never have reached higher weight classes without those…), increase your lifts…
Edit: formatting
Edit nr 2: true 20 inch arms are very rare, even in assisted lifters, but it’s entirely possible to reach 18+ natural, unless, perhaps, you’re extremely short (in which case you won’t need 18+ arms, look at onemorerep’s 17 inch guns)
Edit nr 3: If that’s you in your avatar, then the potential is there.
With arms almost fully extended, your tris still cover about half your upper arm, which is actually above-average muscle length from my experience.
Not too sure about your bis, look long enough though, but a biceps pose would help to determine that.
You just need to take heart, get your BF to a level where your body thinks fat stores are adequate and then get to gain some serious mass.[/quote]
Thanks for your comments. I really respect anyone who is able to naturally get even 17 inch arms when they only started with 12 inches (thin bones etc). I think the BF levels makes a big difference to upper arm circumference though. You can easily loose 1+ inches when dieting down.
I’ve only ever done one serious bulk (i.e. a bulk for a decent amount of time) and my BF reached to around over 20%. I’m in the middle of my next serious bulk and am in two minds as to how high to go with my BF. I’m just concerned that the body measurements that were high from the previous bulk were moreso because of the fat increases (fat enters into muscle as well as around it).
So I wonder whether this size increase was mainly an illusion and whether I even NEEDED to go that high with my BF? After all, the longer you bulk, the longer you have to cut (which means little gains).
Is the body actually “aware” that it already has enough fat stores and therefore can concentrate on building muscle? Or is it mainly aware of just food intake (i.e. if enough calories, it can build muscle). In other words, does it really matter how fat you are? Is it not just the dailly calorie surpluss which determines whether you build a lot of muscle? That’s a good new thread I think…lol
[quote]Scott M wrote:
its_just_me,
I agree with your point that there are people who are not gifted in the least bit for this sport and have to overcome this to become something special. However people ARE using it as an excuse for why they never even look like they have picked up a barbell. If someone looked at it rationally(like you seem to do) and said “well this is my genetic predisposition, I have to do this this and this more/harder than the people around me, so be it” than this wouldn’t even be an issue.
Same with the other side of the fence about guys who can gain muscle but at the expensive of significant bodyfat. They just need to be accountable and rationale in their decision making processes and get to work with what they’ve got.
That’s the issue here is that people aren’t able to comprehend these things and give up or blame their lack of progress(any at all) on their genetics or that everyone else is on drugs. [/quote]
Yeah, I just find it difficult to comprehend people who give up so easily that’s all. In my mind, the hardgainer “excuse” is no way a reason to give up. I’ve worked out at home most of my training “career” so I haven’t really experienced many people quitting and giving up. I guess the OP is mainly making a statement to these ones, but nevertheless, it’s an over generalized one which needed clarification.
The reason why it sometimes irritates me is because I’ve experience this kind of intolerance and lack of understanding from quite a few people (even one of my BB partners). I understand where they are coming from, but sometimes it’s pure stupidity and inexperience of different builds that makes them say such narrow minded things (You know: “Do this like me and you’ll get big”).
My BBing mate has been training for 15+ years. What amazed me was the fact that although he’s definitely big and has been BBing for years, he doesn’t know much about training/diet at all! He doesn’t have any kind of routine, doesn’t take any notes, doesn’t have a clue what he’s eating etc.
What’s worse is the fact that he went in for an operation which made him practically bed bound for over a year. Guess how much smaller he is now? A few pounds! LOL, he weighed 230lbs at his peak, and now after no exercise and hardly any food for a year, he still weighs 220lbs and he still looks like a rhino! A while back I went in for a hernia operation (and we wonder why doctors hate weight lifters lol) and was out of training for 9 months. I plummeted down from 170lbs to 130lbs!
Once I asked him how many calories he ate a day and with a blank look he said: “I don’t know, I just eat a normal diet”. I asked him what he ate, the equivalent came to about 3000 cals! I diet with that amount lol.
Don’t get me wrong, I think this is hilarious! I’m not pissed off or disrespectful of his gains or anything. I just think he’s a jamy so and so lol. And to listen to his “advice” would be almost training suicide for me. You can ask this sort of person for training advice because they are huge, but they won�??t say what a hardgainer needs to know.
My point being, you need to study more and know your stuff more when you are a hardgainer.
I think this thread has ended up in a bickering contest and really hasn’t done anything, nobody likes the term hardgainer, because it discredits alot of guys who have work hard to get where they are at and don’t want a cop out.
However I think this thread should be used for bodybuilding for ectomorph’s. And what strategies help ecto’s to achieve the not so typical frame, which I am assuming is to be big and bulky like a mesomorph. By the same token you would need a thread for endomorph for how to have a small waist and low body fat similar to an ectomorph.
People are never satisified by what they have. I have had curly hair my whole life and hated it, always wanted straight. You will find some with straight hair who have always wanted curly.
I have accepted that I won’t be no hulking monster even though most of my friends are. I good with being lean year round. Having functional strength and endurance. Yes most people say I look like a basketball player instead of a football player, but I am good with that. ADVICE TO ALL ECTOMORPHS!
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
On another note, almost every male over here in europe looks anorexic when untrained (me included), and none of those guys at my gym had any problems reaching 18+ inches within 3-4 years of training, even though we started out at 11-12 inch arms or so.
We all have a narrow, thin build and all,
just focus on eating plenty, use digestive aids
(important for me anyway, would never have reached higher weight classes without those…), increase your lifts…
Edit: formatting
Edit nr 2: true 20 inch arms are very rare, even in assisted lifters, but it’s entirely possible to reach 18+ natural, unless, perhaps, you’re extremely short (in which case you won’t need 18+ arms, look at onemorerep’s 17 inch guns)
Edit nr 3: If that’s you in your avatar, then the potential is there.
With arms almost fully extended, your tris still cover about half your upper arm, which is actually above-average muscle length from my experience.
Not too sure about your bis, look long enough though, but a biceps pose would help to determine that.
You just need to take heart, get your BF to a level where your body thinks fat stores are adequate and then get to gain some serious mass.
Thanks for your comments. I really respect anyone who is able to naturally get even 17 inch arms when they only started with 12 inches (thin bones etc). I think the BF levels makes a big difference to upper arm circumference though. You can easily loose 1+ inches when dieting down.
I’ve only ever done one serious bulk (i.e. a bulk for a decent amount of time) and my BF reached to around over 20%. I’m in the middle of my next serious bulk and am in two minds as to how high to go with my BF. I’m just concerned that the body measurements that were high from the previous bulk were moreso because of the fat increases (fat enters into muscle as well as around it).
So I wonder whether this size increase was mainly an illusion and whether I even NEEDED to go that high with my BF? After all, the longer you bulk, the longer you have to cut (which means little gains).
Is the body actually “aware” that it already has enough fat stores and therefore can concentrate on building muscle? Or is it mainly aware of just food intake (i.e. if enough calories, it can build muscle). In other words, does it really matter how fat you are? Is it not just the dailly calorie surpluss which determines whether you build a lot of muscle? That’s a good new thread I think…lol[/quote]
Well, just try to keep your bf around 18 or 20 % while on your bulk and see if you then gain weight faster, ain’t nothin’ to it, but to do it!
Consider also that guys like MegaNewb or whatever his nick is these days get drastically improved leverages/strength due to higher bf (and muscle mass, of course).
You don’t need to take it anywhere near as far as him, just giving an example here.
The time you need to diet doesn’t change much if your BF levels stay relatively stable once you reach 18-20.
You definitely have 18 inch arms in you, just keep at it.
When you get from Alternate DB Curling 30 pounders to using 70+ pounders
for 10 reps per side or more, your arms are going to be a lot bigger.
Same for Closegrip Presses and PJR Pullovers for tris.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
<<<>>>
You seem like a smart guy, but you are a perfect example of somebody who has stuffed their head with more information than is currently useful to them. I say this based on several threads. You think too much and hold several debatable philosophical positions based on things you’ve read with unwavering dogmatic certainty.
I don’t know whether to take that as a complement or not but thanks anyway lol. >>>[/quote]
I meant it as a simple observation, neither insulting nor complimentary.
The fact that some people gain muscle, lose fat, run faster, jump higher or do crossword puzzles better than others is not news. Assigning the term “hardgainer” to the shallow end of the hypertrophy pool may be semantically correct, but is useless at best and woefully harmful at worst.
I am no guru, but I promise you as sure as I’m typing this that I could take just about any guy who’s showed up crying hardgainer since I’ve been around here and put 20 lean pounds on them at a BARE MINIMUM in a year if they did exactly what I said.
Whats wrong with training 2 times a week? If you are training hard, doing squats and deads that have you either seeing spots(heavy) or very close to throwing up(High rep) you should be making progress.
[quote]its_just_me wrote:
I think the BF levels makes a big difference to upper arm circumference though. You can easily loose 1+ inches when dieting down.
[/quote]
Hm I guess that’s individual, even at close to 20% BF I can still see the line between the long head of the Triceps and the medial head when doing a front double bi. It’s faint, but there. I add fat mainly to lower back, obliques and abs.
Maybe the one certified poliquin coach dude could shed some light as to what little/lots of fat on your arms mean (biosig) ?