Hardgainer, PWO Carbs, Nutrition

Training Bodybuilding
1

Hi everyone

I’m back to proper training after having recovered from a shoulder injury.

I’m now trying to get my periworkout nutrition right. I’m a hardgainner in the sense that I rapidly loose weight if I eat less than 3000 cals a day. Im now having at least 4000 cals a day in order to build some mass.

Im aiming at something like 50% Carbs, 30% Protein, 20% Fat more or less although my main preoccupation is to get enough calories in.
Is that macronutrient split ok?

My postworkout shake is 40gms whey + 5gms creatine + 100gms fast carbs.
By fast carbs I mean Dextrose, Nesquick (a little bit only for flavour) and WMS, sometimes 2 of them sometimes all 3 mixed ,or wotever in order to add a little bit of variety to my shake, Im always trying to mix things up a little.

I don’t supposse it makes any difference to mix nesquick with dextrose and wms, but I just wanted to check with you guys in order to be on the safe side

Many thnx

2

I can’t say that there is science proving this, as I simply haven’t looked to see if it’s been done and certainly haven’t done any research on it myself, but it strongly seems to me that if:

  1. A lifter can consume a lot of carbs post-workout without getting fat, and

  2. The lifter has no blood sugar issues when doing so

Then it is very helpful to do so.

While I do have to take care with regard to total calories consumed per week and can’t consume any vast amount in that regard, for example I personally have no trouble handling carbs.

For example, a while back I was working on a derivative of R-ALA intended to improve its duration of action and thus, I hoped, improving its beneficial effects on insulin sensitivity and blood glucose control.

(This came to nothing because unavoidably the manufacturing process for the derivative converted some of the R form to L form, which I didn’t find acceptable, so that was that.) Anyway, wanting to do some very preliminary personal testing, first I needed to get a baseline on what my blood sugar response to carbs was.

Decided to do it with real food, breakfast foods as it happened, probably on account of time of day and I guess I probably felt like pancakes, at least going into it.

A fairly miserable experience! No matter how much pancakes and (dry) toast I ate – I don’t remember now how much I ate but it was several times what I would ordinarily voluntarily do – I just could not drive blood glucose up to any value high enough to have any use for correction from a supplement, and not any higher than on far more modest carbs.

It just didn’t work. The test would have needed someone who did not handle carbs as well.

Now while I did not like that experience, actually my preferred approach (prior to Surge Workout Fuel, which changes the formula) for a two-hour hard workout and in a bulking-but-slow-fat-gain phase was 3 sccops Surge plus about 45 g added glucose preworkout, again at the 1 hour point, and yet again post-workout,

Followed by a trip to CiCi’s pizza an hour after that, with about 5 or 6 slices (in the case of CiCi’s, the beef pizza has the best nutritional profile, by the way, being reasonable in protein relative to total calories and reasonably modest in fat, while supplying quite a bit of carbs.)

I haven’t added up how many grams of carbs that is, but it’s a lot.

Fine for me though, although it’s much more than I do when being insistent on not gaining any fat or actually dieting down.

A lot of carbs pre and post workout might be suitable for you as well.

3

thnx mate

4

Hardgainer?

5

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hardgainer?[/quote]

Yep - hardgainer.

As you know bodybuilding isn’t for everyone.

6

[quote]Protoculture wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Hardgainer?

Yep - hardgainer.

As you know bodybuilding isn’t for everyone.

[/quote]

Dunno man, his arms look like they have some neat potential once he puts up some serious numbers on CGP’s and Alt. Curls.

Right now I see a lean guy who doesn’t eat enough.
No offense meant, but I see that in the gym daily. A bunch of lean guys who’ve been training there for years yet don’t make much progress… But they stay lean as hell all the time.

Make your PWO shake bigger! 60-80 grams of protein aren’t going to hurt you.

2 grams of P per lb/bodyweight in your diet and more fat!

Really focus on getting strong for reps as fast as you can without wrecking your form (i.e. no shoulders coming forward /off the bench on chest pressing work, for example).

I can see those arms looking quite impressive further down the line…

Your shoulder looks weak, but I guess that’s due to your surgery?

Come on man, you have the potential! Just get your head on straight as far as training and diet goes and forget about that “hardgainer”-mentality. It’s not going to help you one bit.

7

His bicep looks like it attaches into his forearm… I’m sure angle has something to do with it but still. Also “rapidly lose weight if I eat less than 3000 calories a day” sounds like pretty much everyone on the planet with an active lifestyle, it’s thermodynamics, not “hardgaining.”

8

[quote]red04 wrote:
His bicep looks like it attaches into his forearm… I’m sure angle has something to do with it but still. Also “rapidly lose weight if I eat less than 3000 calories a day” sounds like pretty much everyone on the planet with an active lifestyle, it’s thermodynamics, not “hardgaining.”[/quote]

I would lose a shit load of muscle if I instantly dropped down to 3,000cals a day without doing so gradually.

I guess I am a “hard gainer” too.

Do I get a party? I prefer “pity” as the theme.

9

Get about 2g protein per lb. of bodyweight. Fill the rest of your cals with either carbs or fat, depending on what your diet is like. If you don’t gain weight, increase your carbs/fats (assuming you’re getting 2g protein per lb).

10

hi guys

thnx for the advice, by the way I recognise that my physique is very imbalanced and would like some advice on that.

My forearms are too small for my biceps but when i try to train forearms the next day my biceps are sore and not really the forearms ,any tips please?,wot r CGPs?

I dont wanna train bceps anymore 9at least not directly) until my forearms and triceps catch up ,is that a good idea?

Im also not sure which on my delts heads needs more work because my shoulders always look so dam small to me!,pls guys be brutal and advice me

I stay lean but I do eat a lot all the time , (cos I always have the munchies if u guys know wot i mean), Im always eating because I wanna put on weight maybe Im not a hardgainner but perhaps Im doing something wrong ,which would be good news because I can always correct the way i do things.

I weight less than 160 pounds, maybe I should go up to 5000 cals a day divided like this 50% carbs 30% prot 20%fat?

what is more important to put on weight: carbs or protein?

wot about if my preworkout shake is :
30gms whey + 30gms powdery oats + 5 gms creatine
and my postworkout shake: 60gms whey + 100 gms carbs + 5 gms creatine ,does that sound better?

many thnx again

11

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I guess I am a “hard gainer” too.

Do I get a party? I prefer “pity” as the theme.[/quote]

lol

12

While it may seem that ProfX is being a dick you might really want to read between the lines of his post. I.E. you have most likely drastically underestimated the amount of food one needs to eat in order to put on mass. Notice I used the word “one” and not “you”.

13

[quote]Natan2007 wrote:
what is more important to put on weight: carbs or protein?[/quote]

Taking that as meaning muscle weight, as I’m sure you mean, it depends on what the comparison is to.

For example if someone is already on a high carb diet but has some pitiful protein intake, increasing protein intake will be more beneficial to them for muscle mass.

If on quite high protein but consuming hardly any carbs per week, increasing carb intake will be more beneficial to them.

As to exact numbers of where there would be an equivalance point where say 50 extra grams of protein per day would give the exact same added benefit as 50 grams of added carbs per day, and beyond which or below which it would be more beneficial to increase one than the other, it cannot be said because of:

  1. Individual variation
  2. The same individual having different training at different times
  3. Overall dietary approach: e.g. having the same basic diet every day probably yields a different answer for “ideal” protein/carb ratio over the week than does the Anabolic Diet, where only 2 days per week have substantial carbs, but quite substantial on those days.

[quote]wot about if my preworkout shake is :
30gms whey + 30gms powdery oats + 5 gms creatine
and my postworkout shake: 60gms whey + 100 gms carbs + 5 gms creatine ,does that sound better?

many thnx again[/quote]

That is a quite solid amount deficient in neither carbs nor ptotein for most individuals after a hard workout. You might do well with another fairly high carb meal an hour or so later, but how much so would depend on the total work done. E.g. if you had trained just calves and abs that day, both the above shake and a fairly high-calorie/fairly-high-carb meal an hour afterwards would be overkill, whereas for a workout with a lot of major compound lifts it would be completely appropriate for many.

14

I know this wasn’t what the thread was about, but if you focus on your forearms and shoulders you’d have a pretty good physique. Not for bodybuilding, but for average joe, would be very impressive.

15

every time I see hardgainer or slow/fast metabolism I die a little inside, please there is nothing special or bad about you,

while there is nothing wrong with either being lean or hyogeeee! you arent any different from the rest, if u eat u will gain, if u dont you will lose,

no you dont have bad genes that you cant gain muscle, and no you dont have extreme genes where you can eat 10 pizzas a day and not gain fat,

again im not here to judge if u want to be small or big, but please stop using terms like hardgainer, its so irritating

16

ok guys I dont wanna irritate people who help me so i wont use the hardgainner talk

many thanks for the advice

17

[quote]believedat wrote:
every time I see hardgainer or slow/fast metabolism I die a little inside, please there is nothing special or bad about you,
[/quote]

I have to disagree with part of this. Some people will have a much lower RMR than someone else, or vice versa.

I’ve done my fair share of RMR tests and I happen to have a very fast metabolism compared to heavier people, some who even have more LMB than I do.

That doesn’t change things too much, just sayin.

18

So basically after an intense, high volume workout involving compounds, you can pretty much eat whatever you want, and should stuff yourself with good nutrients in mostly proteins and carbs to grow. Did I miss anything?

I’m guessing low volume high intensity workouts would entail a little less food loading.