There is a way to figure this out by how far the weight travels. If the plates are loaded behind the handles (between handles and pivot point) than the weight would not have to travel as far so it would not feel as heavy as a barbell.
On any lever arm, the farther back the center of weight the less it has to travel and the lighter it feels. On most HS machines the weight is not moving as far as your hands like it would on a barbell.
I believe Austin and deadlift655 can do 5 plates of the seated HS bench press for reps. I’ve now seen video’s of both of them repping 315 on barbell easily. These 2 are alot stronger than I am and I’m doing 4pps on the seated HS bench machine.
And I’ve never seen anyone Prof X size that couldn’t barbell bench more than 405 lbs. Just an observation.
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
There is a way to figure this out by how far the weight travels. If the plates are loaded behind the handles (between handles and pivot point) than the weight would not have to travel as far so it would not feel as heavy as a barbell.
On any lever arm, the farther back the center of weight the less it has to travel and the lighter it feels. On most HS machines the weight is not moving as far as your hands like it would on a barbell.[/quote]
There’s no need for the detailed analysis. Pretty much everyone that has recently done BOTH exercises reported considerably higher numbers on the HS machines. Obviously one is easier than the other.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
went in tonight to compare good ol’ free weight benching and the Hammmerzzz strength machine.
i worked up to 500lbs with a reverse grip on bench, here’s my video proof LOL.
then in a fatigued state i moved onto the Iso blaster (i added the blaster part) Hammmerzzzz strength bench press.
i started with 2plates a side for 10, then 3plates x 10, then 4plates for 10 and finished with 5plates x 10 that’s all it holds. it has a very weird starting position no matter where i put the seat. it also was extremly narrow. i had to wedge myself in. to actually get it started i had to stand up, put my hands on the grip and then sit down…very weird.
conclusion- that machine sucks… [/quote]
But thats cheating you have elbow sleeves on! that adds 275 lbs to your bench! nice try though.
[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
There is a way to figure this out by how far the weight travels. If the plates are loaded behind the handles (between handles and pivot point) than the weight would not have to travel as far so it would not feel as heavy as a barbell.
On any lever arm, the farther back the center of weight the less it has to travel and the lighter it feels. On most HS machines the weight is not moving as far as your hands like it would on a barbell.[/quote]
There’s no need for the detailed analysis. Pretty much everyone that has recently done BOTH exercises reported considerably higher numbers on the HS machines. Obviously one is easier than the other.[/quote]
Haha, agreed.
I think we are making this more complicated than it has to be.
The only hammer strength machines that will be close to your free weight numbers, are as PX said, the lay down ones where the weight and the hand position are very close to the same distance from the fulcrum. In my old gym we had one that hand position and the weights were within a few inches of each other.
Its pretty simple look at the distance between the pivot point, and where the weights load, then look at the distance between the pivot point and your hand position. If the weight is closer you aren’t pusshing the full load, if the weight is farther you are pushing more than the full load.
BTW, I love these machines. I gave up free weight BP a couple of years ago due to an injury, and I haven’t looked back. I can go as heavy as i want and I don’t need to worry about a spotter, and I still feel I get all if not more stimulus in my chest than I did from BB or DB bench without the risks.
Some of them are hard to get started in for thicker guys, so I use a couple of wooden blocks in between the stops that I just let fall out after the initial push off.
[quote]Liv92 wrote:
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
went in tonight to compare good ol’ free weight benching and the Hammmerzzz strength machine.
i worked up to 500lbs with a reverse grip on bench, here’s my video proof LOL.
then in a fatigued state i moved onto the Iso blaster (i added the blaster part) Hammmerzzzz strength bench press.
i started with 2plates a side for 10, then 3plates x 10, then 4plates for 10 and finished with 5plates x 10 that’s all it holds. it has a very weird starting position no matter where i put the seat. it also was extremly narrow. i had to wedge myself in. to actually get it started i had to stand up, put my hands on the grip and then sit down…very weird.
conclusion- that machine sucks… [/quote]
But thats cheating you have elbow sleeves on! that adds 275 lbs to your bench! nice try though. [/quote]
i know… i know… such a cheater.
[quote]jstreet0204 wrote:
The only hammer strength machines that will be close to your free weight numbers, are as PX said, the lay down ones where the weight and the hand position are very close to the same distance from the fulcrum. In my old gym we had one that hand position and the weights were within a few inches of each other.
Its pretty simple look at the distance between the pivot point, and where the weights load, then look at the distance between the pivot point and your hand position. If the weight is closer you aren’t pusshing the full load, if the weight is farther you are pushing more than the full load.
BTW, I love these machines. I gave up free weight BP a couple of years ago due to an injury, and I haven’t looked back. I can go as heavy as i want and I don’t need to worry about a spotter, and I still feel I get all if not more stimulus in my chest than I did from BB or DB bench without the risks.
Some of them are hard to get started in for thicker guys, so I use a couple of wooden blocks in between the stops that I just let fall out after the initial push off.[/quote]
Well said. Sometimes I feel like I am speaking to brick walls though.
If you haven’t tried the laying press we are talking about, quit speaking on all hammer strength machines as if they are the same. the only ones I use that sit upright are the widegrip press, the incline, and the decline. Any flat [press is done on the ones that lay down and they are not that far off from the real weight.
Bump
I saw the HS flat bench press at the gym and it made me remember this thread. According to the machine I got 375 for a couple reps even after I did my regular barbell bench which was to failure. 100lbs (33%) difference between HS flat bench and free weight bench. I’d say that’s a big difference:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.
I used the upright HS bench, it was about a 70lb difference from my regular bench (for reps) IIRC
there is a seated one in my gym, but the handles go too far back to go heavy to even get them both out at once, if i had a spotter they could be able to help but last time i tried it heavy myself i nearly injured my shoulder, i tried putting 2 blocks of wood in between the handle and against the stationary part of the machine so when i pushed out the wood fell to the floor and off i went, but to no avail.
anyway to overcome this so i can go heavier? thanks
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.[/quote]
I agree that just a working set of 2 (two) reps is PLish but…what about a second main set DC mode of just two reps?
I use a first set of 4/5 reps,rack the bb, rest and squeeze other (maximum) two reps,it seems to work as my chest becomes bigger and I become stronger.
All depends ,IMO, from your own percentage of muscular twitches,with more than 10 reps I have to use a load that is more than 30% lighter than with 6 reps,Modoc suggested that probably this is because of my% of fibers,Poliquin also wrote about the big gap in performances between different % fibers people, otherwise I did pretty well in explosive strenght sports so it makes sense.
low reps,high reps= use whatever works for you.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.[/quote]
Not really. I aim for 6 reps on my top set. My workout was:
Barbell bench: warmups 225x6, 245x6, 265x4
HS Flat bench: 235x8, 285x6, 335x6, 375x2 (on video)
HS Decline, and some tricep accessory.
I was just curious if I could get 4pps. This is not my usual gym and as much I like this machine, I don’t have access to it on a regular basis. I’m pretty sure I could get 4PPS for 6 reps in less than a couple months especially if it were my 1st exercise. Either way it’s between 80lbs - 100lbs between all the rep ranges vs barbell.
Maybe the big gap in weight is because my triceps suck and my chest is relatively stronger? IDK. When I had access to these machines regularly, I’d do 5pps for 5 reps on the decline HS ISO bench and that’s supposed to focus on triceps.
[quote]hiphoptothetop wrote:
there is a seated one in my gym, but the handles go too far back to go heavy to even get them both out at once, if i had a spotter they could be able to help but last time i tried it heavy myself i nearly injured my shoulder, i tried putting 2 blocks of wood in between the handle and against the stationary part of the machine so when i pushed out the wood fell to the floor and off i went, but to no avail.
anyway to overcome this so i can go heavier? thanks[/quote]
i usually push them out while standing up and then slide into the seat and i can go pretty heavy on them but i didnt have to do that until the weight started to get pretty heavy. before that, i just thought of it like a bench press from the pins. just learn to get strong from a dead stop.
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.[/quote]
I agree that just a working set of 2 (two) reps is PLish but…what about a second main set DC mode of just two reps?
I use a first set of 4/5 reps,rack the bb, rest and squeeze other (maximum) two reps,it seems to work as my chest becomes bigger and I become stronger.
All depends ,IMO, from your own percentage of muscular twitches,with more than 10 reps I have to use a load that is more than 30% lighter than with 6 reps,Modoc suggested that probably this is because of my% of fibers,Poliquin also wrote about the big gap in performances between different % fibers people, otherwise I did pretty well in explosive strenght sports so it makes sense.
low reps,high reps= use whatever works for you.
[/quote]
I use low reps also and I still wouldn’t count 2 reps as a set. At the least, 3-5 reps on the LAST set.
All of that talk about fiber percentages only makes sense if you are making far above average progress using that approach. You base those types of assumptions on the progress made.
yeah the one in my gym is pretty old, and the handles are too far back compared to what i have seen on others on the net (pictures) of them motionless, near impossible to get my arms that far back 
i will just wait until someone comes in andd ask them to help .
[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
I used the upright HS bench, it was about a 70lb difference from my regular bench (for reps) IIRC[/quote]
My daily gym has those. Those are “easier” than the laydown one in my video . I get 5-8 reps with 4 pps after BB bench and dumbell bench. I’ve vids of that on my youtube as well if there are any doubts.
I’m not bashing the HS machines. I really like them. But I wouldn’t compare the poundages to free weights.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.[/quote]
I agree that just a working set of 2 (two) reps is PLish but…what about a second main set DC mode of just two reps?
I use a first set of 4/5 reps,rack the bb, rest and squeeze other (maximum) two reps,it seems to work as my chest becomes bigger and I become stronger.
All depends ,IMO, from your own percentage of muscular twitches,with more than 10 reps I have to use a load that is more than 30% lighter than with 6 reps,Modoc suggested that probably this is because of my% of fibers,Poliquin also wrote about the big gap in performances between different % fibers people, otherwise I did pretty well in explosive strenght sports so it makes sense.
low reps,high reps= use whatever works for you.
[/quote]
I use low reps also and I still wouldn’t count 2 reps as a set. At the least, 3-5 reps on the LAST set.
your choice man, I doubt that pushing 8 reps to dead,rest,3/4,rest,just one ot two on LAST set
(as per DC protocol).
All of that talk about fiber percentages only makes sense if you are making far above average progress using that approach. You base those types of assumptions on the progress made.
[/quote]
30lb more on the bar (inclined bench) in less than 3 months,no juice,seems pretty good to me LOL
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I wouldn’t even count 2 reps as having done a set. Are you using that machine to max out? When does maxing out matter in bodybuilding? The goal is to work your chest more efficiently, not compare this shit to powerlifting.[/quote]
I agree that just a working set of 2 (two) reps is PLish but…what about a second main set DC mode of just two reps?
I use a first set of 4/5 reps,rack the bb, rest and squeeze other (maximum) two reps,it seems to work as my chest becomes bigger and I become stronger.
All depends ,IMO, from your own percentage of muscular twitches,with more than 10 reps I have to use a load that is more than 30% lighter than with 6 reps,Modoc suggested that probably this is because of my% of fibers,Poliquin also wrote about the big gap in performances between different % fibers people, otherwise I did pretty well in explosive strenght sports so it makes sense.
low reps,high reps= use whatever works for you.
[/quote]
I use low reps also and I still wouldn’t count 2 reps as a set. At the least, 3-5 reps on the LAST set.
your choice man, I doubt that pushing 8 reps to dead,rest,3/4,rest,just one ot two on LAST set
(as per DC protocol).
All of that talk about fiber percentages only makes sense if you are making far above average progress using that approach. You base those types of assumptions on the progress made.
[/quote]
30lb more on the bar (inclined bench) in less than 3 months,no juice,seems pretty good to me LOL[/quote]
It doesn’t to me unless you now look like a serious weight lifter as a direct result.
This is bodybuilding, not “let’s compare how much weight we lift”. I am a very strong person, but this is one reason these threads that turn into a clusterfuck of powerlifters vs bodybuilders never get anywhere.
That “30lbs gain” is only significant if you are making above average progress.