And if the dad says no, what would you do? Break up and move on?
I think that’s what I’d do.
@mnben87 thanks for the response. I got your points and I admit that I’m likely biased from my own upbringing in the latchkey-kid, early Millenials/late Gen X environment in one of the boroughs of NYC. Perhaps the trend of that era no longer applies.
What I noticed in the attractive women of that environment was a seemingly default attraction to scumbags, the sort that a woman’s male family members would want to boot off their stoop if he came by the home.
Given he has a good relationship (involved and loving) with his daughter and that approval is important to her - I would want to know his reasons why, but I would have to respect his decision.
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Many / most women are fairly attractive when young. Maybe in a girl next door way. I am more so talking about women that have rare beauty with my post. I am thinking of someone like Margo Robbie at the point in time that the Wolf of Wall Street was filmed. Those type of women typically don’t date losers.
But if he doesn’t, or he does but she doesn’t particularly care about his spousal approval, you would marry her anyway?
Kind of seems like you are already adding qualifiers to get us mostly where we are today in western society. Do or don’t Ask the dad ceremonially, but ultimately it’s up to the woman to decide for herself if the dads approval is that important.
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Sure. But you’re treating men like a uniform body. In some cases it’s the same men, but usually it’s one group that broke it and mother group that is complaining about it. Doesn’t mean complaining will fix it, but it isn’t unfair.
It isn’t about her caring. Her caring is a product of the father’s correct actions.
If her father has been an actual man and father, I am going to go with what he says regardless of her feelings. But, I would still want an explanation from him, if he would give it. I would want to know what he saw in me that he did not like.
If her “father” has been a piece of shit loser / didn’t raise her, non-existent, etc., I think that is a different scenario.
I am not going to rigidly apply a standard that doesn’t even fit or was not intended to the current cultural happening you are referencing.
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Appreciate your answer, thanks
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@Lonnie123 @Bauber
I think we’d know long before a possible marriage proposal if a father disapproved of us. What do you think?
I’m not sure what you mean by this? Can you explain?
Perhaps I’m archaic but I don’t see marriage as something that goes on just between two individuals. I see marriage for what it was and originally intended: child raising, family alliances, and accrual of resources. Yes, of course there is sex, love, and life partnership, helping one another out, but I stick to the aforesaid as the main reasons, which isn’t solely about two individuals.
And it’s not as if I wouldn’t have serious reasons for disapproving of a suitor. It’s not as if I’m going to have some outrageous, materialistic standards for one. If I were to disapprove, it would be because the guy is bad or if he and his family, despite being alright people, are simply not a good fit for us.
People can think this is odd, and I’m alright with that, but I’ve concluded in middle age that the notion that young people can date just anyone, with no advice, insight, or approval from their elders is not good. Considering the times I’ve been living in, I of course did not feel that was for most of my life.
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One should, if you are not completely tone deaf.
Marriage is hard. I think it is even harder these days with so much instant gratification and the notion that you should never be unhappy.
That is total bullshit. Marriage takes work and you need to choose your spouse carefully, especially if you plan on having children.
My wife comments all the time on how I am like her father in my actions and how I see things. I take it as a compliment because her father did a superb job at raising her.
This harkens back to what women look for in a mate. It is usually based off of their father and how their father acted around them. I don’t think most people realize how important that is. My in laws also just crossed 55 years of marriage.
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My dad would unironically put up with someone he didn’t like very much if he saw that I liked the guy enough and it would be very hard for the man to tell that he was disliked
Mum on the other hand…….
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What would that be exactly? What would cause one to go from an “alright person” to “not a good fit”?
Hasnt this been the issue since time immemorial? From Romeo and Juliet all the way back to ancient greek tragedy and before Im sure. Young girls have always “dated” men (or desired, or whatever time appropriate equivalent was around) their parents dont like for whatever reason.
Mom and dad are free to offer their advise, approval or disapproval, insight etc… In the modern west we have decided that ultimately the decision rests with the couple themselves though.
Much more than that you are moving into the arranged marriage territory.
Bauber said that he would ask the father, and IF he had a good relationship with her, was involved, and the approval was important to her, he would respect the decision, which to me read as there being at least 3 different reasons to reject the fathers disapproval right off the bat. “Sure, he said no, but hes not as involved as I think he should be so Im not going to listen to him” or “Your father said no, but if you dont care about that I dont either so we are still cool to get married”
Which is ultimately where marriage is at in most western culture… Parental approval is desired but not a mandatory proposition.
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wealth, education or culture gaps.
For example, if I get married, I’d never marry a man who does not have at least a masters degree
I’ll also not marry a man who not accept that my parents and brother come before him. e.g., they can and will live with us for some period of time at some point and have a decent control over my finances. I know some people find that level of parental involvement intrusive
But that’s you making the decision for yourself, not the parents making that decision for you.
I’m imagining a scenario where there are no deal breakers between the couple themselves, and the man is generally a good upstanding guy as Brickhead said, but when he goes to ask for permission there’s some other issue that makes them a bad fit (I’m thinking religion or money or something but I don’t know honestly )
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this can be a huge issue in some places.
That’s what I imagine the #1 is.
Too poor or too uneducated (and thus too poor usually) are the other ones I would guess.
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Standards are good as long as they are conveyed up front.
I think you misunderstood me.
If the father has no relationship or was otherwise abusive, absent, etc. I would not even be asking him as he does not care about her in the first place.
Her caring is irrelevant in the ultimate decision, but is a sign that her father is a good one.
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That’s what I understood you to be saying.
I’m mildly exaggerating but it does have a hint of “you always need the fathers permission… except when you don’t” and “when you don’t” is decided by the person asking
Overall it strikes me as a bit of a foregone conclusion that the father would say Yes because the type of guy that would ask the father is very likely to be the type of guy the father would approve of. Probably not a ton of out of work meth addicts asking for daddy’s sign off these days.
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My buddies wife had that standard (he has a masters). She is also Asian. They make a lot of money, but their life isn’t necessarily my cup of tea. Lots of work, even on the weekends (both work at least a full day on Saturday and Sunday). It is an odd relationship IMO. They are kinda business partners it seems.
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