Gun Rights

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike
[/quote]

You are afraid of people. That’s ok, most people are afraid of other people. I’m not. I have been to Mexico City, Guadalehara, All kinds of dangerous places, and I have never been threatened. Why are you so afraid of getting mugged?

Common sense does help out a lot. I mean, I don’t stay out late when I’m in Belfast, Ireland or Manchester, UK. If you know you might run into a situation the best thing to do is avoid it.

So let me ask you, How many times have you been mugged?

62

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike

You are afraid of people. That’s ok, most people are afraid of other people. I’m not. I have been to Mexico City, Guadalehara, All kinds of dangerous places, and I have never been threatened. Why are you so afraid of getting mugged?

Common sense does help out a lot. I mean, I don’t stay out late when I’m in Belfast, Ireland or Manchester, UK. If you know you might run into a situation the best thing to do is avoid it.

So let me ask you, How many times have you been mugged?[/quote]

Wow you are a tough guy! Now tell us how big your penis is.

63

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Skystud wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike

You are afraid of people. That’s ok, most people are afraid of other people. I’m not. I have been to Mexico City, Guadalehara, All kinds of dangerous places, and I have never been threatened. Why are you so afraid of getting mugged?

Common sense does help out a lot. I mean, I don’t stay out late when I’m in Belfast, Ireland or Manchester, UK. If you know you might run into a situation the best thing to do is avoid it.

So let me ask you, How many times have you been mugged?

Wow you are a tough guy! Now tell us how big your penis is.[/quote]

When he said, “If someone wants to kill me, I don’t care.” I just assumed his life was worthless. Probably makes it easier to seem tough.

64

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike

You are afraid of people. That’s ok, most people are afraid of other people. I’m not. I have been to Mexico City, Guadalehara, All kinds of dangerous places, and I have never been threatened. Why are you so afraid of getting mugged?
[/quote]

If you aren’t afraid of ANYONE then I suppose you just haven’t met the right person. I’ve been to some pretty buggy places myself, Las Vegas, Belfast, Tokyo, Honolulu, Zamboanga City and Baghdad to name but a few. Your statement however answers itself, “and I have never been threatened.” Are you telling me that all the innocent people in this world that have been raped, mugged, and murdered had it coming? I would hope not though I have met more than a few of that ilk.

There are a few reasons you have never felt threatened. The first is luck and the second is that perhaps you’re a big strong guy which is similiar to being armed. In the corps we referred to it as presenting a hard target. If you look like easy prey, the predators will come. If you look like you may put up a fight then they will pass. I learned this lesson from my father as a kid. I used to get bullied for being a skinny kid in jr. high school. My dad took me aside and told me, “Son, all you have to do is put up a fight. You might not win, but you’ll let that kid know that there is a price to pay for picking on you and he’ll think about it the next day and move on to other kids.”

Now, assuming you are a pretty intimidating fellow, try explaining your reason for not feeling threatened to a cute little 5’2" 110lb girl. Otherwise toss her a glock and say, “Get thee to a range.”[quote]

Common sense does help out a lot. I mean, I don’t stay out late when I’m in Belfast, Ireland or Manchester, UK. If you know you might run into a situation the best thing to do is avoid it.

[/quote]

Of course. You are under this silly perception that just because someone is armed that they will go looking for a fight. I could be strapped to the gills, but I am not going to roll through Harlem at 3 a.m. Even so, there should be NO place in my own country that I should feel are off limits.

[quote]

So let me ask you, How many times have you been mugged?[/quote]

Never. That’s probably due to luck and a good sense to avoid a situation. Then again, perhaps it is due to my presenting a hard target, the world may never know.

A last piece on info I’ve gleaned over the years: A National (USA) Crime Survey found that between 1979-1985 that people that did not resist a robber were injured 25% of the time and the robbery was successful 88% of the time while those that resisted with guns alone were injured 17% of the time with the success rate of the robber was dropped to 30%.

Mike

65

Here’s something else. I hike the Appalatian trail a lot. I mean, I do a circuit hike 3 or 4 times a week. There are bears out there. Not a lot, but a few, here and there. And the thing is, they can eat you. Any time they want. Ha Ha. They can.

But I don’t take a gun with me.

66

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Here’s something else. I hike the Appalatian trail a lot. I mean, I do a circuit hike 3 or 4 times a week. There are bears out there. Not a lot, but a few, here and there. And the thing is, they can eat you. Any time they want. Ha Ha. They can.

But I don’t take a gun with me. [/quote]

You are just too cool, Skystud. You are doubtless leading a charmed life, wherein nothing can harm you, neither man, nor beast, nor god. You must be the Chosen One, who will bring balance to the Force, the One who will defeat the Matrix and end the War.

Why don’t you bottle some of your studliness and send it to Mike’s girlfriend. Surely that will keep her even safer from nighttime predators around the U of I campus than her pistol ever could.

67

What makes me feel really safe, almost as safe as if I was hanging out with Skystud, is of course my numchucks.

I also wear a T-shirt that says “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch!” which scares off any predators and makes me get laid ten times more than anybody else.

I totally kick ass.

I’m like the non-hiking version of Skystud. If I had a gun, it would just slow me down when I’m beating the shit out of somebody. In fact, I carry a gun just to even the odds for my opponents. Those poor bastards never see it coming.

“I’m about to beat the shit out of you. Take this, you’re going to need to try your hardest to pull the trigger as fast as you can when I whip out these numchucks and fuck your ass up.”

Guns are for pussies. Mad-ass numchuck skills will defeat anything.

68

Bow staff skills.

69

[quote]LNEX wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Torte wrote:
Oh, I never thought Idaho as that dangerous. [/quote]

Yeah, haven’t you guys heard about the new force field around Idaho that keeps people with bad intentions out and only lets good guys in? I mean, they’ve been up around “safe” neighborhoods for decades!

Somehow, they seem to malfunction every once in awhile and nogoodnik gets in and does something bad. Everyone who lives in that area then wrings their hands and laments, “this used to be such a safe neighborhood…” as though the universe broke some covenant with them to keep their area safe.

[quote]Beside pepper spray a gun is not quite useful to defend yourself.

Are you a woman?

Have you ever lived in Idaho?

Have you ever defended yourself against a rapist or murderer?

Have you ever used either a firearm or pepper spray against an attacker?

I am guessing that your answers are “no”, “no”, “no” and “no”. That’s fine, but please research the matter a bit.

The fact is, a powerful handgun and the skill to use it efficiently is the single most effective tool for self defense, especially for women. And unlike mace, pepper spray, or improvised weapons, the mere presence of the gun is often sufficent to stop the attack. In other words, it is the most effective deterrent as well.

Don’t believe me? Go ask a cop.

I have a good friend that is a cop and he also taught self defence classes, and he said unless your willing to kill, and are handy with a gun they could be the worst thing you could bring to a fight…if your not willing to kill the person or just don’t know how to use it you might as well hand it over to the person. so yes pepper spray can be better because your not as afraid of using it on someone.
[/quote]

Have you ever used pepper spray (O/C)? Better yet, have you ever been contaminated with it?

I’m certified to carry O/C and collapsible baton on duty, and I can tell you, yes, that shit hurts. To become certified, you have to perform the following steps:

  1. Get contaminated (sprayed).
  2. Run a gauntlet of task stations which include a) knee strikes to a pad while vocalizing commands, b) elbow strikes to a pad wvc, c) baton strikes to a pad wvc, d) maintaining a defensive posture while being struck with various training (padded) objects, and finally e) disarming and commanding to the ground an armed suspect.

All of this takes just over a minute, and it should be noted, the longer this stuff sits on your skin, the more it burns, so after this exercise and the wearing off of my adrenaline dump from the initial shock of the pain, I was spent.

This being said, I would never trust my wife’s life or my own to O/C. Granted, probably a majority of people will just scream and curl up on the ground, but what if you are attacked by someone like myself who has been contaminated before and knows what to expect?

BIG mistake; if you spray me with that shit, I know I have roughly a 1 minute window before I start to shut down from the pain. In that 1 minute, I will do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat (you), and as hopped up on adrenaline and as impaired as my vision will be, you can bet I ain’t fighting clean.

The bottom line is, O/C is a useful less-than-lethal tool in the toolkit of a professional whose job is maintaining the peace, but by itself for personal safety it can be about as effective as a Louisville slugger against a hornets’ nest.

70

To the OP: In Florida, restricted areas for concealed carry are spelled out in the state statute, including all school campuses. This used to really piss me off when I took night classes at the University of South Florida, and had to walk three blocks to my car because I refused to get raped paying for a parking tag, which allowed me the privilege of parking (maybe) a block closer to the campus.

I’m no small guy, but hell, the neighborhood wasn’t/isn’t the greatest and transients and streetwalkers are a common sight. How many potential muggers considered robbing me and then didn’t because of my size? I think if I knew the answer to that question, I would have trouble sleeping for awhile.

BTW, I always carried my concealed piece with me anyway; this is my life, fuck em.

71

I think more people should consider non-leathel self defense. I’m sure a 110 lb. woman would probably prefer carrying mace instead of a glock 9. Most women are probably less interested in killing someone than getting out of the dangerous situation. Think mace isn’t strong enough? Look around. She can find some very strong stuff out there.

72

[quote]Skystud wrote:
I think more people should consider non-leathel self defense. I’m sure a 110 lb. woman would probably prefer carrying mace instead of a glock 9. Most women are probably less interested in killing someone than getting out of the dangerous situation. Think mace isn’t strong enough? Look around. She can find some very strong stuff out there. [/quote]

Did you not read what I just posted? If she uses this stuff on a guy my size who has experienced it before, or worse, has built up a resistance to it, she is fucking toast.

You claim to have owned multiple guns, but you seem to have no knowledge of how they are used for self-defense. You know those man-sized silhoutte targets with the concentric circles in them? When qualifying with a handgun, the smaller circles toward the middle are worth more points.

Why? Because the qualifying agency wants you to aim for center mass. This is where the vital organs are and a shot here is more likely to stop an opponent, which is the end goal of someone out to defend themselves. If killing were the goal (as you seem to think it is) a head shot is a damn near guaranteed kill, yet no police, security, or civilian gun safety courses train for head shots. Think about it.

Now, back to your 110 lb. woman scenario. If she is even minimaly proficient with her Glock 9, she still may have to fire multiple center-mass shots to stop her attacker, especially if he is a strong, well-padded, fat fuck like me. At least in this case, she has a chance to incapacitate her attacker with organ and CNS trauma. It makes holes, it is real stopping power.

Now, put a can of O/C in her hand instead of the gun. She may blind/confuse/incapacitate her attacker enough to flee to safety, but it is a gamble. If her sprayed attacker has the wherewithall to get ahold of her (men tend to be able to run faster than women), she now has an enraged criminal with no real damage to his body, just his nerves sending him a false pain message, who will likely do her much more harm to even the score, possibly even killing her whereas he may have had no intention to before being sprayed.

Unless you have backup weapons, and/or have trained extensively in hand-to-hand combat to prepare you for dealing with contaminated opponents (oh, yeah, the first rule of engaging someone you’ve sprayed: You will get the shit on you, too. Guaranteed.), you are better off carrying nothing.

73

what kind of blowback is invovled after shooting someone on the street ?

74

[quote]Skystud wrote:
I think more people should consider non-leathel self defense. I’m sure a 110 lb. woman would probably prefer carrying mace instead of a glock 9. Most women are probably less interested in killing someone than getting out of the dangerous situation. Think mace isn’t strong enough? Look around. She can find some very strong stuff out there. [/quote]

Did you not read what Chainsaw just wrote?

I have never had the pleasure of experiencing the effects of OC pepper spray, but I’ve had plenty of exposure to military CN and CS gas, which are the active ingredients of Mace. They sting, yes, but if you are determined you can fight your way through the gas, even with a full dose in your eyes, nose, and lungs.

If a 200-pound rapist were sprayed with something like this by a 110-pound woman, I concede that yes, it would make him rather disinclined to commit rape. The only thing on his mind at that point would be murder. God help the poor girl if he gets his hands on her.

You don’t need to be able to see in order to kill. And one minute is plenty of time. Mace and pepper spray are fine and all, but she ought to have a pistol to back it up.

A handgun is not designed to “kill someone”, by the way. It is designed to stop the attack. A .45 caliber bullet or two in the hip or torso is not necessarily lethal, but will stop a 200-pound man from carrying out any of his previous plans, be they robbery, rape or homicide.

75

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:

Did you not read what I just posted? [/quote]

God damnit, Chainsaw, I posted almost exactly the same thing as you did, before I read this post of yours! Haha!

76

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Here’s something else. I hike the Appalatian trail a lot. I mean, I do a circuit hike 3 or 4 times a week. There are bears out there. Not a lot, but a few, here and there. And the thing is, they can eat you. Any time they want. Ha Ha. They can.

But I don’t take a gun with me. [/quote]

Eventually the Bear will eat you thus proving Darwin correct.

77

[quote]swivel wrote:
what kind of blowback is invovled after shooting someone on the street ?[/quote]

You mean legal consequences? As varied as there are local, county, and state laws multiplied by the near-infinite number of possible scenarios involving shooter/shootee.

In other words, “it depends”.

However (you didn’t think you’d get off that easily, did you? Mwuahaha!), when I was taking the “G” license course (license to carry a sidearm while on duty as a security officer), two of the near-universal rules of thumb that just about any court in the land will consider are 1) Intent and 2) Ability.

For example, a little old lady with a walker gets approached on the street by a 6"6’, 300 lb. biker who says, “I’m going to kill you!” She pulls a .357 out of her purse and blows him out of his shoes. With her story verified, she is pretty much in the clear; the guy she shot made his intent clear and he had the ability to carry it out.

Now, reverse the roles of the little old lady and the biker, and you can see why he is going to have a real hard time convincing a jury that he felt he needed to shoot her with a large caliber handgun to prevent “death or great bodily harm” (legal speak concerning this statute where I live) to himself after she threatened him.

As you can imagine, conflicts in which the combatants are not this polarized are much more common, and thus the lines start to blur. Throw in all the above factors I mentioned, and you can see why there are no easy answers to your inquiry.

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.

78

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:

Did you not read what I just posted?

God damnit, Chainsaw, I posted almost exactly the same thing as you did, before I read this post of yours! Haha!
[/quote]

Creeepy, ain’t it? LOL!

I think it is painfully obvious who here has had formal firearms training and who hasn’t.

Frankly, I’m glad Skyspud got rid of all his guns; he obviously didn’t know what the fuck he was doing with them, has no concept of self-defense or shot placement, and the life he saved may have been yours or mine.

79

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I have never had the pleasure of experiencing the effects of OC pepper spray, but I’ve had plenty of exposure to military CN and CS gas, which are the active ingredients of Mace. They sting, yes, but if you are determined you can fight your way through the gas, even with a full dose in your eyes, nose, and lungs.
[/quote]

Trust me varq, it is no pleasure cruise. I was especially susceptible to O/C, and had redness/swelling/slightly impaired vision for several hours afterward, and irritated, watery eyes 48 hours later! (I still completed the course, hrumpf-snort!)

In contrast, one of my coworkers had to be contaminated multiple times for it to take effect and was hunky-dory 10 minutes after the course was finished! One guy had a complete meltdown about 4/5 of the way through and didn’t complete the course (he was the only one not to do so). Since there were about 7-8 of us taking the class, I think it showed a good cross-section of tolerances.

Now, as far as you know, is CN or CS still available to civilians? I had thought it was banned because O/C was proven to be a far safer (I’ve read that high enough concentrations can cause permanent tissue damage) and, from the literature I’ve read, more effective alternative and thus idiot-proof, but I could be wrong. I’m just asking because I don’t see it on the shelves anymore.

80

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:

I think it is painfully obvious who here has had formal firearms training and who hasn’t.

[/quote]

yeah, I know you were trying to point me out but its okay youll get as good as me someday