Gun Rights

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Skystud wrote:

Not afraid of weapons.
Not afraid of people either.
In fact, I used to have a colt 45, Marlin 30/30, Walther ppk 22 and a Winchester xp 100. I used to love firing an m-16.
I just think if fewer people carried fewer guns, fewer people would die. I have long since sold all my weapons. I just grew tired of killing things. Why would I ever want to kill someone. If someone wants to kill me, I don’t care. I just don’t want to kill anyone. Even if they want to kill me. I wish everyone felt like this, then we wouldn’t have people killing each other everyday in this country. That’s why.

Well, that’s a beautiful sentiment, I suppose, but an unrealistic one. Unfortunately there exists in this world a minority of people who very much want to do evil to their fellow humans, as much as you or I or anyone may wish that it were otherwise.
[/quote]

We’ll if you have a person pointing a gun in your face everyday, go head, buy a gun. But come on. Do you constantly have people holding you up at gunpoint? Ha!

Or do you just want someone to “make your day”. hahahahahhahahahhah. Get a life, not a gun.

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Skystud wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Skystud wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Skystud wrote:

Afraid of what? I don’t know where you live but around here almost every man has his carry permit from company presidents to laborers.

Even the old insurance execs in my neighborhood have handguns and carry permits and we don’t need to lock our doors at night.

You seem remarkably ill informed on most subjects. No offense to the other high schoolers that post here that seem pretty cool, but you come across like a high school sophomore.

I don’t know where you live, but where I live people usually don’t carry guns.
You might want to move to a nicer neighborhood.

No reading comprehension.

no, really. You should move. Why do you have a problem with that. If you lived in a safer area, maybe you wouldn’t want to kill anybody. But hey, that’s just me knuckle head. [/quote]

Where did I say I wanted to kill anyone? You tried to make point that if we all had guns we would end up shhoting each other.

I pointed out that living in PA we all DO have guns and somehow we find a way to resist shooting each other.

Then you made a brilliant statement that you don’t care if someone kills you. If that is truly the case I suggest you go play in traffic.

[quote]Skystud wrote:

I don’t know where you live, but where I live people usually don’t carry guns.

[/quote]

You see, this is the beauty of concealment. To the casual observer, a person who is in fact carrying a gun appears not to be.

Have you talked to all of these people in your neighborhood who “usually don’t carry guns”, and verified that they are actually unarmed? If so, do they share your suicidal pacifism?

Or could it be that a great number of them are indeed armed, without your being aware of it?

[quote]Skystud wrote:

We’ll if you have a person pointing a gun in your face everyday, go head, buy a gun. But come on. Do you constantly have people holding you up at gunpoint? Ha!

Or do you just want someone to “make your day”. hahahahahhahahahhah. Get a life, not a gun.
[/quote]

Skystud, this last post of yours suggests to me that you are suffering from some sort of dementia, so perhaps it is for the best that you have gotten rid of your weapons.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Skystud wrote:

We’ll if you have a person pointing a gun in your face everyday, go head, buy a gun. But come on. Do you constantly have people holding you up at gunpoint? Ha!

Or do you just want someone to “make your day”. hahahahahhahahahhah. Get a life, not a gun.

Skystud, this last post of yours suggests to me that you are suffering from some sort of dementia, so perhaps it is for the best that you have gotten rid of your weapons.[/quote]

I somehow make it through everyday without getting held up or threatened with a gun. Do you? If you do, why would you need a gun? If not, if you are really being threatened everyday, all the time, I would move. But if you think you absolutely need one, by all means get one. But I think most people get one because they just think they are cool. They never ask themselves the right questions, like, "Why am I getting attacked all the time?

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
I am surprised that nobody’s law enforcement buddies have mentioned the 21-foot rule.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/ForceScience/articles/102828/

Make sure that your girlfriend draws down on everyone who approaches her within 21 feet while on campus. Or maybe a knife and the buddy system might be safer, if security is truly a top priority?

Todd[/quote]

Tell the 21 foot rule to my girlfriend’s buddy who was just mugged this past weekend. He was grabbed from behind and told to get his wallet. So he reached into his back pocket and grabbed his pistol. The guy pissed himself and ran. Mugging over.

Mike

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Yeah, man. Let’s all carry guns. That would be so cool. We could take em to the mall the grocery store, everywhere. That would be so cool. Kinda like the wild west.

WAKE UP MORONS! YOU ALL CAN’T BE THAT STUPID. Don’t you know who has a gun problem already?
[/quote]

Both she and I open carry everywhere it is legal. I hate to break it to you but neither of us have gotten into any OK corral shootouts yet.

Mike

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Mikeyali, I’ve looked at the University of Idaho Student Code of conduct and the Administrative Procedures manual, and both do specifically prohibit firearms on campus, with a few exceptions. She can, for example, bring her pistol to the Memorial Gym firing range, as long as it is cased and unloaded, with a trigger lock in place (thanks a lot!)

However, Idaho is a “shall issue” state, so if your girlfriend is 21 or over, has no criminal record, and can legally own and demonstrate proficiency with a handgun, then the sheriff of the county must issue her a concealed carry license within ninety days of her applying for one.

I would run this by a lawyer first, but apparently she would not be violating any state, county or city ordinance by carrying concealed on campus, only university policy. God forbid she should ever have to use the weapon, but if she does, at least she won’t be breaking any “real” laws.

If she is not already proficient with her handgun, then I suggest she receive competent coaching on drawing, stance, aiming, breath control, trigger control and reloading, as well as weapon retention and combat mindset. When she can consistently draw from concealed carry, and achieve first-round hits at ranges between arms-length and seven meters, in under two seconds, then she may consider herself well-armed.

She should also read two books: In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob, and Principles of Personal Defence by Jeff Cooper.

Best of luck to both of you.

V[/quote]

Yeah, we’re digging into the law on this still. The fact is that if Idaho allows open carry and has state preemption it seems as if the university cannot enforce this law considering that it is a public university and doesn’t fall into any school zone rules.

Regardless, while I do think everyone should carry, I do think that you should know what the heck you’re doing with a weapon before you brandish it. She is actually a mighty fine shot. I’ve got her pretty well versed in immediate action drills if someone were to place a hand on her weapon via arm bars, ect.

The fact is that any place you are not allowed to be armed is a place that doesn’t respect the primary rule of freedom which is self-preservation. If anything can be considered a natural right, this is it. Any government that takes away your right to self-preservation also denies your very RIGHT to exist thus making you a subject, not a citizen.

She and I open carry for a few reasons:
1)Getting a concealed carry permit recognizes the government’s right to infringe upon your rights.

2)My own self-preservation

3)The protection of others around me. This is also why I am a trained first responder.

4)Concealed culture is a dying culture. When gun culture dies, American liberty will be but a breath away from extinction, and in my mind, this is the last bastion of freedom in the world.

5)Last but not least as a political statement. I am a sovereign individual and a citizen, not a subject. Herein lies most people’s issues with firearms. In the event that my or your rights are tresspassed upon I can immediately protect them with violence, disciplined and controlled fire regardless of who is trying to enforce a “law”. This makes people uneasy though I do not understand why. The only people that should be ill at ease are those “little tyrants” bent on doing harm. The trained and armed citizen is an asset to his community.

Got a little preachy there guys, my apologies.

Mike

[quote]Skystud wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Skystud wrote:

I somehow make it through everyday without getting held up or threatened with a gun. Do you? If you do, why would you need a gun? If not, if you are really being threatened everyday, all the time, I would move. But if you think you absolutely need one, by all means get one. But I think most people get one because they just think they are cool. They never ask themselves the right questions, like, "Why am I getting attacked all the time?
[/quote]

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike

Mike, you’re a Claire Wolfe fan, aren’t you?

Right on, brother.

V

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Mikeyali, I’ve looked at the University of Idaho Student Code of conduct and the Administrative Procedures manual, and both do specifically prohibit firearms on campus, with a few exceptions. She can, for example, bring her pistol to the Memorial Gym firing range, as long as it is cased and unloaded, with a trigger lock in place (thanks a lot!)

However, Idaho is a “shall issue” state, so if your girlfriend is 21 or over, has no criminal record, and can legally own and demonstrate proficiency with a handgun, then the sheriff of the county must issue her a concealed carry license within ninety days of her applying for one.

I would run this by a lawyer first, but apparently she would not be violating any state, county or city ordinance by carrying concealed on campus, only university policy. God forbid she should ever have to use the weapon, but if she does, at least she won’t be breaking any “real” laws.

If she is not already proficient with her handgun, then I suggest she receive competent coaching on drawing, stance, aiming, breath control, trigger control and reloading, as well as weapon retention and combat mindset. When she can consistently draw from concealed carry, and achieve first-round hits at ranges between arms-length and seven meters, in under two seconds, then she may consider herself well-armed.

She should also read two books: In the Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob, and Principles of Personal Defence by Jeff Cooper.

Best of luck to both of you.

V

Yeah, we’re digging into the law on this still. The fact is that if Idaho allows open carry and has state preemption it seems as if the university cannot enforce this law considering that it is a public university and doesn’t fall into any school zone rules.

Regardless, while I do think everyone should carry, I do think that you should know what the heck you’re doing with a weapon before you brandish it. She is actually a mighty fine shot. I’ve got her pretty well versed in immediate action drills if someone were to place a hand on her weapon via arm bars, ect.

The fact is that any place you are not allowed to be armed is a place that doesn’t respect the primary rule of freedom which is self-preservation. If anything can be considered a natural right, this is it. Any government that takes away your right to self-preservation also denies your very RIGHT to exist thus making you a subject, not a citizen.

She and I open carry for a few reasons:
1)Getting a concealed carry permit recognizes the government’s right to infringe upon your rights.

2)My own self-preservation

3)The protection of others around me. This is also why I am a trained first responder.

4)Concealed culture is a dying culture. When gun culture dies, American liberty will be but a breath away from extinction, and in my mind, this is the last bastion of freedom in the world.

5)Last but not least as a political statement. I am a sovereign individual and a citizen, not a subject. Herein lies most people’s issues with firearms. In the event that my or your rights are tresspassed upon I can immediately protect them with violence, disciplined and controlled fire regardless of who is trying to enforce a “law”. This makes people uneasy though I do not understand why. The only people that should be ill at ease are those “little tyrants” bent on doing harm. The trained and armed citizen is an asset to his community.

Got a little preachy there guys, my apologies.

Mike
[/quote]

I agree with what you say here.You are obviously well trained and conscious of your responsibilities as far as gun carry goes.My concern is with the vast majority of gun carriers that are not well trained and do very
little or no ongoing training to maitain the required level of expertise.

While requiring high levels of competency to be proved to the licencing authorities might be seen as a enchroachment of ones rights,being shot as an innocent bystander by a badly trained individual is most certainly a violation of ones rights.

The myopic nature of most individuals renders then unable to self monitor this kind of situation,I believe.
So how does one insure that those that do carry are properly trained,do you all think?

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

Got a little preachy there guys, my apologies.

Mike
[/quote]

Preach on brother.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Preach on brother.[/quote]

No shit. Hey Mike, where the hell were you when the Liberty Control thread was in full bloom?

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=854764

I think it woulda been right up your alley.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
toddjacobs13 wrote:
I am surprised that nobody’s law enforcement buddies have mentioned the 21-foot rule.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/ForceScience/articles/102828/

Make sure that your girlfriend draws down on everyone who approaches her within 21 feet while on campus. Or maybe a knife and the buddy system might be safer, if security is truly a top priority?

Todd

Tell the 21 foot rule to my girlfriend’s buddy who was just mugged this past weekend. He was grabbed from behind and told to get his wallet. So he reached into his back pocket and grabbed his pistol. The guy pissed himself and ran. Mugging over.

Mike
[/quote]

sounds like he wasn’t a proficient mugger.

[quote]swivel wrote:

sounds like he wasn’t a proficient mugger. [/quote]

Sounds like his lack of proficiency wasn’t what prevented his success. Better to deter a neophyte than pay one.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Skystud wrote:
If someone wants to kill me, I don’t care. I just don’t want to kill anyone. Even if they want to kill me. I wish everyone felt like this, then we wouldn’t have people killing each other everyday in this country. That’s why.

Right up until we’re invaded by people who DO want to kill us…[/quote]

Are you refering to Canadians or Mexicans?

[quote]lucasa wrote:
swivel wrote:

sounds like he wasn’t a proficient mugger.

Sounds like his lack of proficiency wasn’t what prevented his success. Better to deter a neophyte than pay one.[/quote]

the guy was grabbed from behind.if you’re able to surprise and grab someone from behind you own them.
and who the hell carries in their back pocket ?

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Are you refering to Canadians or Mexicans?[/quote]

Or neighbors.

My point is just that wishing doesn’t create reality.

[quote]swivel wrote:
lucasa wrote:
swivel wrote:

sounds like he wasn’t a proficient mugger.

Sounds like his lack of proficiency wasn’t what prevented his success. Better to deter a neophyte than pay one.

the guy was grabbed from behind.if you’re able to surprise and grab someone from behind you own them.
and who the hell carries in their back pocket ?
[/quote]

True, he has taken this situation and reviewed it to better prepare himself for the future. The fact is that all a weapon does is better prepare you to handle a situation. It certainly does not automatically make you safe. In this case it helped him. It may not in the future, but it does put the odds another notch or two in his favor.

Mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:

What I think you fail to understand is that you don’t need to be held up everyday. It only takes once. One bad day and you can lose all that you hold dear. One bad day. Speak softly and carry a big stick.

Mike
[/quote]

Yeah, ok. Well, good luck with that.