[quote]therajraj wrote:
Can’t we all just get along?[/quote]
Its like you SUMMON the discord!
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
12g tactical shotgun would be my choice for home defense. Strangely enough I have a S&W 9mm.[/quote]
Have you ever fired a 12g indoors? The only shotgun I would apply to home defense would be .410 bore(Mossberg or Saiga).
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
[quote]TEMPLAR wrote:
For the new gun owner I would recommend either a Mossberg 500 HS410 or a 590, depends on your experience level.[/quote]
god i fucking give up[/quote]
lol
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Mossberg 500[/quote]
Yup!
Plus, I’ve noticed that those polycarbonate or what ever clips that were on the gun in the link tend to wear quickly and cause some problems while firing in rapid succession.
edit: Sorry HM. I had not read your post. and I like big booms. And no, I wouldn’t fire a slug in the house. Thats just reckless.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
[/quote]
Yes because your unexplained hatred sounds so intelligent eye roll. There are pros and cons for every weapon for every type of situation and there is no perfect universal answer. As far as home defense goes a pump shotgun is a fairly solid choice. Depending on your state laws and model you can have anywhere from 3-8+1 shells. Buckshot or slugs should handle any penetration and destruction needs. The main problem with anything longer than a handgun is negotiating corners, super close range, and the very real possibility of over-penetration. That being said even small handguns will go through studs and/or several sheets of drywall.
The real problem with most self-defense shooting isn’t necessarily the firearm but the penetration and situational awareness(assuming we are talking about a trained individual). Your bullets needs to penetrate Mr. Prowler’s CNS but we don’t want it to go through the house and into lil Billy Headaway’s noggin. [/quote]
this is exactly my point.
WHY are you ‘negotiating corners’? are you a tac-team guy? are we kicking in doors in iraq?
we are talking about home defense. you’re in your room and you hear u’re door getting kicked in, you hear glass breaking, whatever.
why are you not crouched behind your bed, hi-capacity semi auto something aimed at your bedroom door, cops on the phone?
why the HELL would you suggest a weapon that requires manipulation after EVERY shot? ESPECIALLY when you suggested it to ‘new people’
why would you suggest a weapon with considerable kick to a newbie?
you still need to aim a shotgun. they aren’t the QUAKE-kill everything on the screen weapon IRL.
you want to shoot a slug in a house?
jesus.[/quote]
You could be crouched behind an obstacle with a shotgun then one of it’s negatives, negotiating corners, is out of the picture. If you don’t like pump then get an automatic. If we are talking about easiest gun to shoot for a noobie that requires no thought then the only answer is a wheel gun. And yes I know you need to aim a shotty…but it’s pretty forgiving when you are aiming at a door. Also, the recoil is very manageable depending on the setup and cartridge. Obviously a large magnum slug is going to have different mileage than a smaller buckshot shell. BTW I’m not a behemoth of a man…5 foot 10 180 lbs very average. The key is going to be using what you are trained/comfortable with. A complete noobie probably won’t be good with anything because they won’t even have the basic aiming and trigger mechanics down…especially in a high pressure situation.
Ahhh I shouldn’t even have read this thread…these always end up becoming pissing contests about my gearz/caliber/flashlight/plan is better than yourz. It all comes down to training/planning. Hey possible badguy in the house my kids know what to do, my spouse is on the phone, I’m watching the door with my **** which I’m very familiar with. That’s how you survive.
Oh btw I’m a police dispatcher so just some FYI for everyone…take a deep fucking breath and answer the questions that we ask you. If you do have a gun out let us know where you are and what you look like…a code word is also helpful so some fools aren’t cappin other fools by mistake. Also, if you accidentally call don’t hang up just stay on and let us know. If you hang up it just pisses us off and we have to waste resources trying to get in contact with you.
Finally, have you tried sticking it in the pooper?
[quote]TEMPLAR wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
12g tactical shotgun would be my choice for home defense. Strangely enough I have a S&W 9mm.[/quote]
Have you ever fired a 12g indoors? The only shotgun I would apply to home defense would be .410 bore(Mossberg or Saiga).[/quote]
Who the fuck uses shot guns indoors? The only thing a shot gun is good for around the home is shooting coons, rabbits, and hinges off a door.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Ever have someone break into your joint?
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
If we are talking about easiest gun to shoot for a noobie that requires no thought then the only answer is a wheel gun. [/quote]
lol bullshit.
a carbine in pistol caliber with a visable laser. from a supported position.
while you may be correct in that the operation of a wheel gun may be easiest for a newb, decent handgun shooting skills require considerable range time
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]TEMPLAR wrote:
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
12g tactical shotgun would be my choice for home defense. Strangely enough I have a S&W 9mm.[/quote]
Have you ever fired a 12g indoors? The only shotgun I would apply to home defense would be .410 bore(Mossberg or Saiga).[/quote]
Who the fuck uses shot guns indoors? The only thing a shot gun is good for around the home is shooting coons, rabbits, and hinges off a door.[/quote]
Really Chris?
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
Ahhh I shouldn’t even have read this thread…these always end up becoming pissing contests about my gearz/caliber/flashlight/plan is better than yourz. [/quote]
i agree. but my initial point wasn’t to say ‘omfg u ONLY can use this’
it just annoys me when ppl just want to shout ‘oooo def get a 12ga pump, you can rack it to scare away the badguy’
dumb.
[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
You could be crouched behind an obstacle with a shotgun then one of it’s negatives, negotiating corners, is out of the picture. If you don’t like pump then get an automatic. If we are talking about easiest gun to shoot for a noobie that requires no thought then the only answer is a wheel gun. And yes I know you need to aim a shotty…but it’s pretty forgiving when you are aiming at a door. Also, the recoil is very manageable depending on the setup and cartridge. Obviously a large magnum slug is going to have different mileage than a smaller buckshot shell. BTW I’m not a behemoth of a man…5 foot 10 180 lbs very average. The key is going to be using what you are trained/comfortable with. A complete noobie probably won’t be good with anything because they won’t even have the basic aiming and trigger mechanics down…especially in a high pressure situation.
Ahhh I shouldn’t even have read this thread…these always end up becoming pissing contests about my gearz/caliber/flashlight/plan is better than yourz. It all comes down to training/planning. Hey possible badguy in the house my kids know what to do, my spouse is on the phone, I’m watching the door with my **** which I’m very familiar with. That’s how you survive.
Oh btw I’m a police dispatcher so just some FYI for everyone…take a deep fucking breath and answer the questions that we ask you. If you do have a gun out let us know where you are and what you look like…a code word is also helpful so some fools aren’t cappin other fools by mistake. Also, if you accidentally call don’t hang up just stay on and let us know. If you hang up it just pisses us off and we have to waste resources trying to get in contact with you.
Finally, have you tried sticking it in the pooper?[/quote]
I don’t understand recommending a shotgun on the basis that a completely untrained individual would handle it best.
I would hope that anyone purchasing any weapon puts a fair amount of time in at the range, at least enough to cock it and turn of the safety in the dark and aim it at a doorway while getting into a stable stance (crouched or elbows on a flat surface).
JFit-
You say your dad has nice guns and you say you’re not a gun person. When’s the last time you shot a firearm?
You ready to kill someone? No, seriously-- are you mentally prepared to actually kill someone with a firearm? You live in a high crime/break-in Cul-de-Sac? You have a home alarm system wired into cops?
You never mentioned price. Couple hundred bucks v. $700-1000? Higher?
By all means, get you and your wife a nice handgun (.45, 9mm, etc) and go shoot at a range regularly and get proficient with a firearm and have fun. Go take a handgun safety class-- your local gun shop probably puts one on every couple months and probably works with local LEO’s.
AA-12, best of both worlds, worst of both worlds. Bad Ass Mother Fucker, like Samuel L. Jackson.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Ever have someone break into your joint?[/quote]
Yes. My first house was robbed twice but only after my dog died. Both times, conveniently enough, I was not home.
My last place had someone enter through the basement door when they thought I was not home, but my current dog took off after them and got a piece as they tried to clear the fence.
Strange feature of this one I have now though. No matter which door a person enters, If they don’t shut it behind them the way is blocked and they can only travel through the house in one direction. That direction leads to a blind turn for them which gives me a perfect shot at the bedroom door.
The guy who previously owned/built it was pretty clever.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Thats pretty hilarious that he thinks someone hearing a shotgun rack is going to come find out where it’s coming from. No, unless it is an assassin specifically coming for you they are going to GTFO.
Why is it being assumed that a person using a shotgun won’t be familiar with it, yet someone with a pistol will be like Jason Borne? I understand that for guys like HM that may be true,but most people won’t be able to hit shit with a pistol in a high stress situation unless they spend a lot of time training for it.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Thats pretty hilarious that he thinks someone hearing a shotgun rack is going to come find out where it’s coming from. No, unless it is an assassin specifically coming for you they are going to GTFO.
Why is it being assumed that a person using a shotgun won’t be familiar with it, yet someone with a pistol will be like Jason Borne? I understand that for guys like HM that may be true,but most people won’t be able to hit shit with a pistol in a high stress situation unless they spend a lot of time training for it.
[/quote]
I guess they have punk ass stick up crews in Michigan. I’ve been through a few stick ups, and I’ll tell you what, the last thing I’m reaching for is a shot gun. Tell you why, two years ago I was in the back room of a house when a stick up crew came in and met no resistance in the front room. The jackass who’s mom’s house we were in decided he was going to “scare” the stick up crew by “racking” his shot gun while I was in the bathroom going to climb out the back window.
Well before I could get to the window, I hear the “rack” that is supposed to “scare” this crew off, the next thing I know a rain of bullets is coming through the room hits my friend in the leg and I’m laying on the floor of the bathroom waiting for the bullets to stop flying so I can jump out of the window.
Sorry, I’m not going to be trying to “scare” anyone with a “rack” of my shot gun. I’ll be doing one of two things, locking myself into my room and calling the police (if I got family in the house) or I’m getting the fuck out of there and if the only thing I got is a shot gun…I’m going to be quiet as I can be. I’ve been through enough stick ups to know that if you can hide and call the cops or get out of there and you don’t give away your location while being able to defend yourself, you’ll be better off than not.
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Thats pretty hilarious that he thinks someone hearing a shotgun rack is going to come find out where it’s coming from. No, unless it is an assassin specifically coming for you they are going to GTFO.
Why is it being assumed that a person using a shotgun won’t be familiar with it, yet someone with a pistol will be like Jason Borne? I understand that for guys like HM that may be true,but most people won’t be able to hit shit with a pistol in a high stress situation unless they spend a lot of time training for it.
[/quote]
What if they don’t run, what if they think the sound is something else or don’t hear it. You can’t depend on that. I have been told the same thing by my co workers that a Shotgun is the best for home security.
I understand there point becuase they come from wide open areas where the house cost 100 grand and is the size of the ranch on Dallas Cheap and BIG…NO HUGE.
I live in a city and my house is small and like most new homes the corners and hallways are narrow and sharp. A shotgun would not be easy to use in that type of situation also if I have to use it the scatter makes it possible to hit something I’m not aiming at in the dark with your heart racing like a sprinter on full speed.
I’m still looking for the best options for me and the MRS to be honest. I have large hands and most of my practice is with a Baretta 9. At the range I notice the Mrs has issues with it so I was thinking a Taurus TCP 380. It would have to be something we can put in the safe next to the bed for easy access and something both could get to and use in the dark.
Of course all of this is second to our cell phones next to the bed.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Testy1 wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
pump-action shotgun.[/quote]
Yes, great…if you know you can’t…scream your location to those who have broken into your house. You can just rack that, put them in hyper alert, and they’ll be coming for you like kujo on speed.[/quote]
Really? They do that? Call me silly, but if I knew the jig was up by the racking of a round, I’d be looking for an exit, you know, before my chest cavity became one.
[/quote]
Thats pretty hilarious that he thinks someone hearing a shotgun rack is going to come find out where it’s coming from. No, unless it is an assassin specifically coming for you they are going to GTFO.
Why is it being assumed that a person using a shotgun won’t be familiar with it, yet someone with a pistol will be like Jason Borne? I understand that for guys like HM that may be true,but most people won’t be able to hit shit with a pistol in a high stress situation unless they spend a lot of time training for it.
[/quote]
I guess they have punk ass stick up crews in Michigan. I’ve been through a few stick ups, and I’ll tell you what, the last thing I’m reaching for is a shot gun. Tell you why, two years ago I was in the back room of a house when a stick up crew came in and met no resistance in the front room. The jackass who’s mom’s house we were in decided he was going to “scare” the stick up crew by “racking” his shot gun while I was in the bathroom going to climb out the back window. Well before I could get to the window, I hear the “rack” that is supposed to “scare” this crew off, the next thing I know a rain of bullets is coming through the room hits my friend in the leg and I’m laying on the floor of the bathroom waiting for the bullets to stop flying so I can jump out of the window.
Sorry, I’m not going to be trying to “scare” anyone with a “rack” of my shot gun. I’ll be doing one of two things, locking myself into my room and calling the police (if I got family in the house) or I’m getting the fuck out of there and if the only thing I got is a shot gun…I’m going to be quiet as I can be. I’ve been through enough stick ups to know that if you can hide and call the cops or get out of there and you don’t give away your location while being able to defend yourself, you’ll be better off than not.[/quote]
Well I guess you’re right, we don’t have any crime in Michigan. Good thing there aren’t any cities like Detroit or Flint or Inkster here.
No, I haven’t been involved in a bunch of stickups because I don’t involve myself with that type of crowd. What kind of crack houses are you hanging out in? I’m talking about home invasions, where usually the criminal is there because they think you are not. And I will still take the point and shoot of a short barrel shot gun over pistol if they are coming for me.
For the record I think your story is a bunch of bullshit. If you are being robbed that often you need to change your lifestyle.