Hey Chris I was curious about this. I’ve had two nagging pains because of lifting. One is my left wrist, and second is my left knee. Both these lifting related injuries started to cause pain the day after the training session. Everything was fine on the training itself. Is it really like that? Except of course on the instances you tear something major right there and then while lifting. If im not mistaken, pig’s injury also started causing pain the day after
I’m hoping some time will be most what’s needed. In the mean time I can get sexy I guesd
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That’s not an “acute injury”, it would either be some form of overuse injury or sometimes muscles can tighten up in the hours after lifting and you will feel pain in places that felt fine during training. Something hurting isn’t necessarily an injury, like for example if you wake up with a stiff and achy neck. With some overuse injuries you might feel fine once you are warmed up but outside of that you will have nagging aches.
As far as back injuries, there are a lot of things that can go wrong but on several occasions my back has felt fine during training and then cramped up later in the day. It appears that this was a result of the psoas and QL being too tight. One thing that can help is after a high volume lower body workout you lay down on your back with your hips and knees at 90 degrees, elevated on something like a couch or bench. Stay like that for about 5 minutes, or more if you are in no rush. Apparently that is the position where you have the lowest compressive forces on your lumbar spine and it will allow the muscles to relax, if you sit or stand for the rest of the day they will stay tight and can sort of lock up at some point.
Two muscles that can cause knee pain are anterior tibialis and vastus lateralis, do some myofascial release work on those and see if it helps. For wrists, various muscles in the forearms can be the cause but also benching with your wrist cocked back and low bar squatting (with or without and technical issues) can be a contributing factor. If I squat heavy without wrist wraps my wrists don’t feel great so I make sure to use them.
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I don’t think so. The healthcare card which is like the concession card covers a lot but not physio
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I’ll get thicc in the upper body because that’s all I do hard
Lifting was fine. Aside from my glutes burning and feeling like I’m not able to engage them and my posterior chain properly on the deadlift (see last training logged)
From what I understand a lot of back pain is muscle spasm aside from the blatant nerve pain like sciatica.
I’ll give those things a go. Last time I hit everywhere with the horse massager it helped a bit
Maybe because it’s complex, time intensive and relatively low rates of success so docs avoid getting bogged down in it
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I’ll do a bit of a write up of what I’ve had maybe it’ll fit some pattern or presentation. I think there’s a physio or two on here but I don’t remember their names and it’s kind of dig to ask for pro help for free.
Got it. Thanks @chris_ottawa, will try that lying down thing and those for the knees
The wrist pain was from applying too much torque by the cue “bending the bar” on the deadlift in an attempt to engage the lats. That cue obviously didn’t work for me. This was waaay before I joined T-nation. It’s almost gone now after many months, thankfully.
@guineapig yes it’s complex. It’s not like an MCL or ACL where you do a specific physical exam and you know immediatley that’s it. A lot of times, MRIs show nothing too, yet the pain is there. For those who don’t lift and are sedentary, it’s really hard to explain to them that losing weight, doing core strengthening exercises, and just physically moving more will help a lot of back pain. Most will just opt to pop a pain reliever even though it really doesn’t solve the issue.
“Doc this hurts when I touch it…”
“…then don’t touch it.” Hahaha.
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Do some glute bridges to warm up.
Look into myofascial release work. I use a lacrosse ball and this massage stick called theracane. You could use the handle of a screwdriver for anything that isn’t awkward to reach.
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3/5/19
Don’t really have a plan going forward yet so just hit a bit of pressing today. Testing out how it feels to squat because at least because I think deadlifting isn’t happening anytime soon.
Incline barbell presses were tough but good. I’ve pretty much never done em the whole time I’ve been lifting so some progress there might get me thicc in all the right places. Bodybuilding goals wise it’s always been a massive full chest (including upper chest) and big as possible Delts like them AAS users so if I need to take time off Powerlifting to recover may as well go after them goals.
TnG Bench 4 Sets @ 80-90kg
Incline Barbell 4 Sets @ 60kg
Machine Flyes 3 Sets @ 40
Squats Sets x Reps @ 60-100kg
Squats not feeling too promising. My minds on how my back feels, staying stable and having my glutes to firing or being under tension right to squat properly. Dunno if it’s worth pursuing squats in the short term it mostly just makes me feel bad.
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@mortdk @whang
Edit: I don’t think @FlatsFarmer I’d a physical therapist but knows things
Red Flags:
nil unexplained weight loss or off feeling, nil saddle parathesia incontinence etc.
History:
No history of back pain or spine issues.
Current History:
Initial flare up after deadlifting on a day I was feeling hella fatigued and bailed on a slow grindy rep. Bit over three weeks ago.
Improved initially with NSAIDs but flared up again past few days.
Where:
Hard to pin point exactly where pain is but it’s around the lower lumbar + sacrum area. Focal point is this point in the diagram bit medial and bit inferior to the PSIS on my left side. Feels superficial/close to the surface
Other Areas:
Nothing like shooting or radiating pain down my leg but from that focus point the pain seems to be radiating out and coming from the whole lower lumbar upper sacral region making it hard to pin point especially when I sneeze or it’s bad.
There is limited ROM of hip/knee extension: kinda hamstring like tightness maybe nerve related? Feels like movement is restricted in my hammy and glute not really painful but uncomfortable to push into it
When
Seems to be around constantly to some degree but sometimes eased and sometimes aggravated. Not really any worse in the morning vs towards the end of the day (unless I’ve done a lot to aggravate it during the day)
Aggravating Factors:
Bit inconsistent in this regard. Few positions seem to aggravate my back even though sitting makes me feel all stiff. Movement seems more the culprit but it’s a bit inconsistent like sometimes flexing the spine or extending the lower back or tilting the pelvis anteriorly all the way aggravated me back.
One aggravating factor I’m sure of is sneezing. Maybe the combination of building up tension in the core and the sudden forward jerk flexing the spine as I sneeze but it’s painful as. I need to feel it coming and actively brace my spine to minimise the pain.
Axial Loading like putting weight on my back for squats isn’t so much painful as awkward overall. In the bottom of the movement glutes feel like they don’t have tension on them and control/drive out the hole isn’t there.
Hip Hinge / Shear Forces: painful (briefly in the start position of the deadlift) then decreases to uncomfy at the top
Depth/ROM: in the hole on squats and at the bottom/starting position for deadlift is not comfortable. As I’ve mentioned before my glutes ain’t doing their job like they did before. Not sure why. There’s a bit of pain, maybe a bit of hesitation or inhibition
Easing Factors:
NSAIDs help a little.
Lying down
Walking, movement that isn’t painful or otherwise loosening up
Massage of the painful areas
Nature:
Dull and aching pain or discomfort usually. When aggravated it’s briefly sharp and takes a few seconds to dissipate
Severity:
At rest pain is like 2/10 if anything at all depending on what position/activity I’m in. On sneezing or otherwise aggravating bumps up to a 6-7/10.
After acute aggravation pain settles to a lower level quickly within a minute or two
Other Symptoms
Little bit of instability feeling like giving way with the pain
That’s all I got for now. I see a couple of tests and stuff online that point towards certain structures of presentations like:
Active Movement Tests
Slump Test
Straight Leg Raise
Hip Tests
Lateral Shift
Sacroiliac Joint Tests
So ima do some when I get some time and maybe it can point in a certain direction
I would point you in the way of a professional Mate.
If it’s a damaged disc or something then things can get pretty nasty.
I’ve got a SI joint that’s tightening up now and then.
I’ve got some PT exercises I do.
One of the things that aggravated my SI was lifting my leg to put on a sock or bending over to tie my shoe laces. Just like someone stabbed me in the back.
I’m doing this routine, can’t remember if I put it in your log. It’s damn good for just about everything.
Start out for a week or two by just sitting in the deep squat for several minutes at a time a couple of times.
Try to keep the feets parallel and at shoulder with apart.
Before trying out Ido’s routine.
But I’m not a doctor or anything, so take this with a grain of salt.
I really hope you’ll get over it soon.
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Worse case I try to hit maintenance volume on lower body without squats and deads and return to my upper body skip legs bodybuilding roots for a while so not that bad.
I’ll put some funds together for now so if I’m the short term I need to go see a pro then I can even if it hurts my wallet. I think if it bothers me long enough through a doc I can get it partially covered by universal public health care in Oz
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Ha ima su u now. Gimme my monies
I did the jumping thing and there was a bit of a jarring effect but it wasn’t the same kind of sensation that I’ve been having trouble with. Ima bust my knees if anything. What’s it meant to be a test for? Fracture?
I’ll run the tests tomoz probably. One thing I’ve been reading too is on neurodynamics. If I understand right this can be like nerve getting irritated along their course at certain points leading to symptoms but not necessarily nerve symptoms. But it’s looking like it’s “mechanical”.
Lol I’m out. Haha
It’s not a formal test Actually. Just based on my experience when I had SI joint problems before. The SI joint is designed to absorb some force from the legs or hip movement like when landing from a jump.
You can read up on sacroiliac joint dysfunction and see where that gets you. Could just be an irritated/inflammed SI joint based on where you say the pain is from your picture
Anyway, if it is that, stretching and getting the hamstrings loose and flexible, core strengthening/rehab, and hamstring strengthening was what did the trick for me before. Took a a couple of weeks or two months of doing the boring core exercises lol
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Now to brainstorm some lower body movements that are light on me back that I can do to maintain muscle as best I can while my back injury runs its course:
Glute Bridges
Abduction Machine
Lunges
Split Squats
Leg Extensions
Hamstring Curls
Potentially a belt squat if I can get to that gym consistently and I can get it to work without being too uncomfy
Still on the fence with exercises such as Hex Bar Deadlifts, Block Pulls, Back Raises etc.
No, not a PT, just a guy with a sore back.
I agree with a lot of what Chris O has said. Laying in the 90/90 with feet against the wall is a good way to let your back relax. If you Push into the wall with your feet, flex your abs and use your hamstrings to pull your heels down (without moving them) you might be able to get your glutes going.
Heres a picture with some cues.
This is a side view, it would be better if it was from the back. Either way, you can see the Glute Min, the TFL and the IT band. Chris mentioned to QL (like in the lower back, above glutes). I totally agree about massaging/release or myo fascial work or whatever you want to do to loosen these muscles up. They are all dense/thick muscles that can tighten up and cause problems for you.
For moves, glute bridges and easy stuff to get glutes and hamstrings going are good. If they don’t hurt, high deadlift in the rack, so high you don’t need to learn over and it’s all glutes are cool. Back raises are OK if you can get the stress off your back and into glutes/hams.
The twisting stretch that Mort showed is cool, but be careful about stretching and twisting when you’re inflamed and stiff.
Do be a little careful about doing tons of quad work when your glutes aren’t working 100%. I hurt my back last spring, got over zealous with lunges, step ups and leg extensions and ended up getting a sore, swollen knee from tendonitis.
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Have a look at this:
http://www.triggerpoints.net/muscle/iliopsoas
www.triggerpoints.net/muscle/quadratus-lumborum
You could do light, high rep leg press for now to maintain leg size if belt squats aren’t happening.
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Thanks Flats. Do you have a massive collection of pics of dudes doing rehab prefab movements to draw from or do you google a fresh every time?