Guest Forum: 48 Hours of EC & MR

Just a few I can think of would include:

  • Quality of sleep
  • Resting HR
  • Motivation to train
  • Internal load (how heavy weights FEEL)
  • Rating of perceived exertion
  • Appetite
  • Mood

I’m sure there are a ton more, but this should be a good start!

Stay strong
MR

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
Eric and Mike, thank you for your time!

what are some good or even bulletproof (if that exists) ways to monitor workout to workout fatigue? so far, the best ways i know of are by how pumped i am for each workout hours and even days before the workout, and by my focus and performance during each workout. im hoping you know a few other ways to monitor how frequently and intensely one can lift.[/quote]

To make a long story short, I don’t prescribe any rounded back lifting with my athletes/clients. I know that I will proably get bashed and hear people say stuff like “All completely safe exercises are completely worthless,” but I just can’t prescribe spinal flexion positions to my people. There’s too much inherent danger involved, and I don’t care what anyone says, you can’t set PR’s if you’re nursing an injury!

Keep in mind when Hatfield wrote this book, we didn’t have the insight to spinal biomechanics that we have now. If he did, maybe he would reconsider his statement.

Stay strong
MR

[quote]kryptoniteks wrote:
Hi guys.

I have a question about lower back strengthening and safety that I would like to hear your take on. I currently train low back with squats, deads, RDL, good mornings etc… and do these all with neutral (vs. flat or flexed) secondary to health and safety concerns. I know there are some advocates of doing some variations of good mornings and other exs. with some flexion to more dyanmically strengthen these muscles. To each their own but after reading Stuart McGill’s Low Back Disorder book I am very wary of these type of variations. However, I recently came across an article by Dr. Hatfield addressing some exercise techniques and after reading the following excerpt, was left with a couple of questions.

BACK EXTENSIONS
Picture this: The great Olympic weightlifter Vasily Alexeev?s ponderous body draped over a gymnastics long horse with his feet wedged between the stall bars of an unbelievably archaic training gym in Moscow?s Lenin Institute of Sport. With four hundred pounds precariously perched behind his head, he explodes for five reps of back raises. There is virtually NO hip extensor involvement, only pure erector spinae contraction. That means 1) tremendous low back limit strength and speed-strength is developed far beyond what any other low back exercise could possibly accomplish, and 2) virtually NO trauma to the tenuous intervertebral discs of the lumbar spine, which is something no other low back exercise ever conceived can claim.

By far the biggest muscles of your lower back are the “erector” muscles. They’re also the most visible. Your erector spinae muscles are designed to extend (and hyperextend) your spine. They do NOT act on your hip joint, so there’s no reason to engage in exercises which require hip joint movement (i.e., traditional “hypers”).

The best way to target your erectors is with “back extensions.” This exercise requires the use of a specialized bench quite unlike the ones you’re probably used to seeing around the gyms (the “hyper” benches you are used to seeing are, in my opinion, relatively worthless). The bench of choice is called (by its inventor, Dr. Mike Yessis) a “glute-ham-gastroc machine.” He called it that because those muscles are the ones the Soviets target with a similar exercise which Dr. Yessis improved upon. Glute-ham-gastroc raises are discussed in the section (below) dealing with leg and hip exercises.

To use this device to target your erectors, your feet are secured by the two foot pads which are backed by a metal plate that prevents your feet from slipping through. Your “belly button” is placed in the middle of the padded support. Your knees are bent. Then, your feet push against the metal plate in order to “lock” your upper legs against the padded bench. All of this ensures that only your erector muscles are targeted, and NOT your hip extensors (gluteals). Simply assume the described position and flex your spine (round your back downward). Hold as much weight behind your head as you can, and extend your spine (straighten it back out again). You should not raise way up by arching (hyperextending) your back, as doing so places too much strain on the intervertebral discs of your lumbar spine. Repeat for the desired number of reps.

This exercise is quite probably the ONLY low back exercise you will ever have to do. It is that effective.

Noted exceptions are deadlifts, squats, glute-ham raises and explosive high pulls, all of which involve the lower back muscles as either stabilizers or synergists. However, none is done for the express purpose of developing your lower back, and are probably unsuitable for most trainees outside clinical and sports-specific applications.

What is your take on the glute ham machine exercise that he describes. Does the positioning of the body on the pad limit flexion ROM enough that the paraspinal muscles cont. to be very active and do not reach the point of shutting down and relying on ligamentous support. Would you still consider such an exercise high risk. I found it very interesting that he was in favor this exercise and was more wary of RDLs and other hip extension exs.

Thank you very much for any opinions you have on the subject.[/quote]

Boonville,

This is such a good question, I’m going to wait until the morning to answer it. Who knows, it may end up being an article right here in the Q&A!

Stay strong
MR

im a new member on here but ive been reading for a while now and i couldnt pass up this oportunity to clear up something that ive been told both sides of the story about - are jump squat bad for the knees?

i was told about them by a friend of my that played d1 basketball. he said his coaches liked them so i gave them a shot for a while. but i read on many places on the internet that they are bad for the knees so i would appreciate some clarification, thanks.

Darryll

any exercises and/or articles regarding spinal/neural flossing?

Just as a follow-up to what Mike wrote on rounded back good mornings, I’ve just completed a two-part article that you should find pretty interesting. Suffice it to say that I wholeheartedly disagree with prescribing any lift that promotes lumbar flexion under axial loadings; the risk:benefit ratio is too out of whack.

when training for strength, why must exercises be changed frequently? i hear that many weightlifters do the same exercises a few times a day, nearly everyday, their entire career. it seems to me they can do this because of proper program design, intensity management, fatigue management, etc.

[quote]DowntownDurrell wrote:
im a new member on here but ive been reading for a while now and i couldnt pass up this oportunity to clear up something that ive been told both sides of the story about - are jump squat bad for the knees?

i was told about them by a friend of my that played d1 basketball. he said his coaches liked them so i gave them a shot for a while. but i read on many places on the internet that they are bad for the knees so i would appreciate some clarification, thanks.

Darryll[/quote]

In individuals with appropriate training preparation for jump squats, they are completely safe. This assumes, of course, that loading is appropriate (typical loading for this exercise is approximately 30%). Think of it as just a plyometric exercise that falls further up toward the strength-speed end of the continuum - almost like a little guy doing reactive work with a big guy’s body weight!

[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
Boonville,

This is such a good question, I’m going to wait until the morning to answer it. Who knows, it may end up being an article right here in the Q&A!

Stay strong
MR[/quote]

I actually live in a van down by the river.

Kidding, of course. I’ll hit it up tomorrow, too.

Eric and Mike
I am working on my deadlift and I hear all the time that one should use their quads to break the floor(get the weight of the ground)but how is this accomplished?
I hear this helps save the hams and glutes for lockout.

Mike and Eric- I have a question I forgot to put in my last post
It is about benching.
I have always heard- TUCK YOUR ELBOWS WHEN YOU BENCH.
I never understood this until someone explained it to me real simple-he said"you see that notch on the opposite side of your elbow where your biceps seperate and your forearm starts, in a elbows out bench they will be facing each other at setup under the bar, simply rotate them towards the sky and that will roll your tris under the bar and your elbows will be tucked"
I tried this and it works, but I am curious how far I should roll the notch towards the sky? Do I go as far as I can, or do I rotate it just a little?

Also- after I tried this I noticed this forces me to bring the bar low on my chest.
the day after my front delts are sore so does this mean I simply brought the bar too low??

anythign else to add to this?

Thanks again.

Eric / Mike,
How important is the supination when performing the prone lower trap raise?
I’m doing them to the best of my ability but I have limited supination on both sides but especially on the right.
If I hold my right arm in front, parallel to the floor (elbow at 90deg) I only get about 125-130deg supination. (Left=~155-160).
If I stand upright and raise my right arm straight and parallel to the ground (in line with my shoulders) it’s more like 115-125 deg.)

Dax

Mike and Eric,

I know you guys are very well versed in the training of different typres of people and athletes.

Do you have any lactic acid conditioning workout ideas for a fighter(me)? I’m training to fight in June at a ripped 176lbs. I feel I have a good tolerance for punishing workouts.

Anything goes, also can you post up some finishers for mental toughness, willing to test yourself for the end of a workout.

Thanks in advance,

Ally

I posted a new thread then I realized I should post my question here as well…

In the military press I have a very blatant sticking point where I’m a lot weaker than in the rest of the movement. So I think it would be a good idea to strength that joint angle using isometrics.

I was thinking about using a barbell with 80% of my max and doing sets of 5s or so.

Has anything been written about what % and duration is best?

Also, I think an article on the Military Press would be a great idea. Dan John wrote about it in a recent newsletter but I couldn’t quite make the technical advice work.

Carl has put some stuff in Part III of our Superior Circuit series. It’s not exactly like the stuff I use, but it’s good nonetheless.

Stay strong
MR

[quote]clc315 wrote:
any exercises and/or articles regarding spinal/neural flossing? [/quote]

Because sticking points, strength levels, weaknesses, etc. are always changing. If you read Eric’s Deadlift Diagnosis article, you’ll see that he outlines positions where certain muscle groups tend to fail. If you know where and why you fail, you can bring up that weakness with specific exercises. At that time, you probably have a new sticking point or weakness somewhere else, and that then needs to be addressed.

Weightlifters are very interested in the motor control aspects of lifting; the more frequently they “groove” their motor patterns, the more efficient they will become. I do think, however, a lot of Olympic lifters could benefit from using a wider range of exercises to bring up weak points, much like powerlifters use.

Stay strong
MR

[quote]wufwugy wrote:
when training for strength, why must exercises be changed frequently? i hear that many weightlifters do the same exercises a few times a day, nearly everyday, their entire career. it seems to me they can do this because of proper program design, intensity management, fatigue management, etc.[/quote]

I don’t know about Eric, but I’ve never heard this before. Read Eric’s Deadlift Diagnosis article; he specifically talks about why you DON’T want to use your quads to get the bar going. Not only will your hips be really low to start, but it will be tough to get appreciable strength off the floor in this position.

Stay strong
MR

[quote]jeep69 wrote:
Eric and Mike
I am working on my deadlift and I hear all the time that one should use their quads to break the floor(get the weight of the ground)but how is this accomplished?
I hear this helps save the hams and glutes for lockout.
[/quote]

I am having difficulty with my knees and have had this problem since I was a teen. I am now 40.

I’ve been to 3 orthopedic specialists in my years, and 1 sports med doc. All have had different diagnosis. I have also been to Pysical Therapy 3 different times and all 3 times they have had me do leg extensions and cybex for the 10 - 20 visits. These kill my knees to the point I can barely walk.

Basically I have always had pain going down hills, down steps, or with the bottom 45 degrees on a leg extension. When I do squats I have to drop fast controled to get to the hole otherwise my knees will tighten up/become painful and I cant get past 45 degrees down. I also have to squat with a narrow shoulder width stance otherwise my knees hurt and I dont get down into the hole.

The pain is all patellar in nature the the most being patellar tendon area and lateral. I do have crepitous with extension against resistence but I have had this all along.

I have searched online a number of sites but nothing seems to speak to my concerns.

Any ideas you guys have would be wonderful to try. Currently I’m just trying to work past it, but expert guidence is a great thing to have.

I’ve never heard of that, either. Frankly, I don’t think I’ve ever actually “worried” about my quads during a deadlift! If you’re trying to get your quads involved, chances are that you’re way too low in your squat.

[quote]Mike Robertson wrote:
I don’t know about Eric, but I’ve never heard this before. Read Eric’s Deadlift Diagnosis article; he specifically talks about why you DON’T want to use your quads to get the bar going. Not only will your hips be really low to start, but it will be tough to get appreciable strength off the floor in this position.

Stay strong
MR

jeep69 wrote:
Eric and Mike
I am working on my deadlift and I hear all the time that one should use their quads to break the floor(get the weight of the ground)but how is this accomplished?
I hear this helps save the hams and glutes for lockout.
[/quote]

[quote]jeep69 wrote:
Mike and Eric- I have a question I forgot to put in my last post
It is about benching.
I have always heard- TUCK YOUR ELBOWS WHEN YOU BENCH.
I never understood this until someone explained it to me real simple-he said"you see that notch on the opposite side of your elbow where your biceps seperate and your forearm starts, in a elbows out bench they will be facing each other at setup under the bar, simply rotate them towards the sky and that will roll your tris under the bar and your elbows will be tucked"
I tried this and it works, but I am curious how far I should roll the notch towards the sky? Do I go as far as I can, or do I rotate it just a little?[/quote]

You should tuck the elbows for a bunch of reasons, the foremost of which are a) to stay tight and b) to pre-stretch the agonists. Reason “A” is pretty self-explanatory; the more compact you are, the tighter you’ll feel. Reason “B” just takes a little thinking from a functional anatomy perspective. When you tuck the elbows (or “roll,” as you put it), you’re going to be externally rotating the humerus and retracting the scapulae. Effectively, by doing so, you’re facilitating subsequent contraction of the internal rotators (most notably the pec major, anterior delts, and subscapularis in this case) and scapular protractors (pec minor and serratus anterior). Obviously, you’re flexing the elbows, too, so the triceps pre-stretch takes care of itself.

Now, the tricky part about the pronounced “flare” is that it doesn’t lend itself particularly well to multiple reps. Sure, it accomplishes a lot on singles, so it’s great for competition benching. However, if you’re doing five reps and try to implement the tactic, you wind up smoking the first rep and then wobbling all over the place and looking like a newbie for the last four (if you even get them). As such, if you’re going to use it on multiple-rep sets, you need to minimize how much you flare (if you really flare at all).

Saying how much is too much over the internet is pretty much impossible without seeing you bench. Guys like Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, and the Metal Militia crew devote hours at seminars to correcting these subtle things, so the best recommendation I can give you is to find an experienced powerlifter and pick his brain.

[quote]Also- after I tried this I noticed this forces me to bring the bar low on my chest.
the day after my front delts are sore so does this mean I simply brought the bar too low??
[/quote]

Think about bringing your chest up to the bar and make sure that your arch is at least halfway decent. Get plenty of air in you, too; you don’t want to “sink” as you lower the bar.

With that said, where did you expect to be sore? You’re not benching like a bodybuilder, so it’s not going to be as pronounced in the pecs.