[quote]Bauber wrote:
Damn I guess I’m fucked. Will start planning my funeral now.
Rip Greg though lost him too soon. Very sad for his friends and loved ones.[/quote]
All things in moderation my friend 
Yeah, don’t go for one of those overpriced Rolls-Royce coffins.
here here, I think most of the kids don’t realize, that it’s the total package that matter’s. The right program, with consitant effort, lots of food with consitant effort, lots of rest. If you get everything else in order, it’s amazing what a little test will do. There were lots of big strong guys in the 70s, 80s without the ridiculous stacks. They were willing to put the time and work in, so that a little test or stanz would give them an egde. I’m honest with the kids at the gym, but they don’t believe me.
Most of the big strong Pler’s I know aren’t running much at all, but they’ve put a decade or more of hard work in the gym. The young guys don’t want to here this, Guys figure if your bigger than them, it’s because your running more stuff than them, it can’t be because you live like a monk, lift like a beast, and have been doing so for over ten years. I guess I’m generalizing, and projecting what I see in my gym, to the whole issue, but I worry about kids health.
I’ve got 19yr kids, getting ready to go to collage, they’re whole life in front of them, and they’re getting boxes of shit in the mail, from who know’s where, jacking shit in they’re body’s, and they don’t even know what it is, or where it came from, smart kids, I just don’t get it. Sorry to get way off topic, It’s just somthing I deal with daily, as a gym owner, and a big guy these kids look up to, I have a passion for this issue. I do my best, anyway I’m done.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’m no expert on PEDs by any stretch, but I saw this and decided it might be interesting for some people to read and discuss. -S
This is a quote DANTE (of Dog Crap Training) posted up in reference to Greg’s death:
I can always tell who has kids and who doesnt have kids when I see people post that its ok to die at 44 if you lived a great life. Trust me with this…34 is right around the corner, 38 comes right after that and youll be 44 and thinking “wow im already 44, that went by quick”…You do not want to be dying of heart failure in your early 40’s with a beautiful wife near your hospital bed and three little children asking “Daddy when are you coming home”?..(and your not)…and they have nobody as a father thru their formulative years because you were so self absorbed as a bodybuilder you didnt think of the future gameplan of health.
See people will argue against this till they are blue in the face because you cannot inject 3cc’s tommorow if there is potential you could die down the road. So how do they deal with it? They use the “well it happened to that guy because of this…and it wont happen to me” … I post on a pretty hardcore board and there is quite a few people with kidney failure and heart attacks (kidney failure at 29 and heart attacks at 37…things like that)…just look at this last couple years off the top of my head… Brad Hillenbaugh (kidney failure), Nasser, Kovacs, Duvall, Daniele Seccarecci, Art Atwood, Mattarrazzo (heart), Luke wood…its getting ridiculous. I remember in the early 90’s when GH was insanely expensive and everyone was saying Strydom was using 6ius a day…and people were out of their minds thinking that was such a large dose. Nowadays? Thats a middleweight at a county show’s dose. Back in the 90’s… 1000mg of test was considered a pretty hefty dose. Thats a starter cycle for alot of these guys who want it so bad nowadays.
Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder tommorow and now you got a slew of young, impressionables who think there is a secret besides extreme mesomorphic genes and response…and these guys listening to this Boston Loyd kid who is what 22 years old and using 13 grams of stuff? And he justifies himself by telling people thats what everyone does? How the hell would a 22 year old kid from northern cali know what a pro bodybuilder from Florida, Texas, or New York does? Does Boston Loyd know what YOU right now who is reading this does juice wise? No he doesnt and he doesnt know what 400 different pro bodybuilders do.
The battle cry used to be “where are the bodies…if steroids are so bad?”…well you are seeing them now. The late 90’s into the 2000’s and the increased access and lower prices due to the internet …brought on a huge amount of terribly insecure “junky-like” bodybuilders who didnt think longterm.
And you are starting to see the bodies…but what is coming up? what are we going to see from the last 8 years? It will be ridiculous. Its gotten outrageous with the dosages used and you are going to see alot of people dying and health maladies over the next decade. I watched that Loyd video of him beating his chest saying his blood work was ok. Did Kovacs die 2 months after his abuse? Nasser? Artwood? No they didnt…Virtually any 22 year old kid who abuses himself isnt going to drop dead at 23! But 15-20 years later? Thats is where there is going to be an accumalation of damage.
What are we seeing over and over of late? Heart failure. The science is there! Anabolic Steroids, Growth Hormone, and Hypertrophy of the Heart
You combine grams of testosterone with large doses of Growth hormone over time…what is going to happen to you is in the literature above and the consequences below.
Anthony M. D’Arezzo Obituary: View Anthony D’Arezzo’s Obituary by The Providence Journal
See people only read about so and so pro bodybuilder who succumbs…nobody hears about the 3rd place finisher of MR Podunk who wanted it so bad and ended up dying at age 47 from his usage.
Dante
[/quote]
This may be off topic, but is Dante still pretty big these days? I haven’t seen a picture of him for almost ten years.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
here here, I think most of the kids don’t realize, that it’s the total package that matter’s. The right program, with consitant effort, lots of food with consitant effort, lots of rest. If you get everything else in order, it’s amazing what a little test will do. There were lots of big strong guys in the 70s, 80s without the ridiculous stacks. They were willing to put the time and work in, so that a little test or stanz would give them an egde. I’m honest with the kids at the gym, but they don’t believe me.
Most of the big strong Pler’s I know aren’t running much at all, but they’ve put a decade or more of hard work in the gym. The young guys don’t want to here this, Guys figure if your bigger than them, it’s because your running more stuff than them, it can’t be because you live like a monk, lift like a beast, and have been doing so for over ten years. I guess I’m generalizing, and projecting what I see in my gym, to the whole issue, but I worry about kids health.
I’ve got 19yr kids, getting ready to go to collage, they’re whole life in front of them, and they’re getting boxes of shit in the mail, from who know’s where, jacking shit in they’re body’s, and they don’t even know what it is, or where it came from, smart kids, I just don’t get it. Sorry to get way off topic, It’s just somthing I deal with daily, as a gym owner, and a big guy these kids look up to, I have a passion for this issue. I do my best, anyway I’m done.[/quote]
You are spot on here. While I am not as old as you, I see kids barely out of high school or still in it bragging about all the gear they are on. And I get younger kids coming up to me on a weekly basis asking me about their stack, what they should do, can I get them stuff, what do I take, etc etc. And most of them know jack shit and have not even bothered to do a google search on anything about anything.
When I tell them how they should focus on training and diet first they usually blow me off. Or when I tell them I was already 235 lbs+ before I even touched gear and that it is hard work and dedication; I literally get looks of disgust like I am some huge liar with shit growing out of my face.
Haha, I like the way this thread has turned, hereing big guys speak honestly. Nobody’s questioning your work ethic Bauber, and I was the same way, at 34, and after lifting for 15yrs, i’d maxed out, my bench was stuck at the same place in the high 300s for almost 2yrs. I did 8 weeks of 400 test, and 200 tren. I got past my plateau, and since have done a few test only cycles, all under 500, thats me, thats my story, but the point is I put the work in, years of it. Every kid I tell this to laughs in my face, then lists off the things they think I’m on, it blows my mind. I don’t know what the answer is, but being honest has to be a start, and guys like Stu pushing natural lifting. What ever Latter
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Haha, I like the way this thread has turned, hereing big guys speak honestly. Nobody’s questioning your work ethic Bauber, and I was the same way, at 34, and after lifting for 15yrs, i’d maxed out, my bench was stuck at the same place in the high 300s for almost 2yrs. I did 8 weeks of 400 test, and 200 tren. I got past my plateau, and since have done a few test only cycles, all under 500, thats me, thats my story, but the point is I put the work in, years of it. Every kid I tell this to laughs in my face, then lists off the things they think I’m on, it blows my mind. I don’t know what the answer is, but being honest has to be a start, and guys like Stu pushing natural lifting. What ever Latter[/quote]
Do you blast cruise with TRT doses of test between “cycles”?
The general “knowledge” (tough to even call it that lol) base about anabolics in most gym goers is incredibly off base.
What a week with Kovacs dying and Mike Jenkins following suit shortly after at only 31 years old.
Hey greg, I’m on 200 test E a week right now, thats a high TRT dose, but thats all I’ve run for almost 3yrs. Now other than the last 6mth my training the last 2yrs has been pretty sporatic due to life, with the whole year of 2012 not training at all. Before that, for the years following my run of tren, (I think 09), to finaly get my double body weight bench, I did blast and cruise, for a couple years, thats confusing. I know, but here’s my present training.
After a year off all togeather, I came back 6mths ago, pretty out of shape, and I wanted to build my base back naturaly, so I'm training for a 1500lb total (just TRT) it's tough, but I want my natural base back. When I get to 1500 I'll probably do some blasts of 500 a week for 12wks(as needed) then back to my TRT, but right now, and this is what guys need to here, '' I'm busting my guts out, force feeding myself, and getting to bed by 9pm, and I'm doing this 7 days a week, to get back to 1500, naturaly.'' The TRT, is due to medications I'm on, that shut my test off completely. To anyone that thinks 200 a week is cheating, your welcome to take a look at my log, how much work, and food, I'm doing, and where my weights are at. I've been through this before, and I know 1500 is achievable, but at the end of my natural capabilities, genetic limit's if you will.
I could use now, to get to 1500 faster, but then I wouldn’t have the strength base. I personaly think guys shouldn’t get into anything, until they’ve tapped out they’re potential naturaly, this can take anywhere from 3-15yrs, in my expierance. If you do this first, I’ve found, you only need minimal gear, to get you past the sticking point. This is how I look at it. I’d rather find the smallest amount, that will help me, over a hump, rather than doing a boat load, and hoping somthing works. I believe juice is a training tool, used in small amounts, at certain points, when needed, so that when your not running, you don’t loose anything. Sorry I ramble, and repeat myself, I skipped english class to go to the gym At this point, if and when I use, I’m a test only guy, hope this is what you were after, clear as mud
Not that I haven’t rambled enough, but with the kids at my gym, when they ask me for a juice hook up, I tell them to get a 1000lb total, and then I’ll hook them up, funny thing is, it takes about 1-2yrs depending, but none of them want to use, at that point, they’ve gained size, and knowlage, I guess, and they’ve figured it out for themselves. 2cents
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Hey greg, I’m on 200 test E a week right now, thats a high TRT dose, but thats all I’ve run for almost 3yrs. Now other than the last 6mth my training the last 2yrs has been pretty sporatic due to life, with the whole year of 2012 not training at all. Before that, for the years following my run of tren, (I think 09), to finaly get my double body weight bench, I did blast and cruise, for a couple years, thats confusing. I know, but here’s my present training.
After a year off all togeather, I came back 6mths ago, pretty out of shape, and I wanted to build my base back naturaly, so I’m training for a 1500lb total (just TRT) it’s tough, but I want my natural base back. When I get to 1500 I’ll probably do some blasts of 500 a week for 12wks(as needed) then back to my TRT, but right now, and this is what guys need to here, ‘’ I’m busting my guts out, force feeding myself, and getting to bed by 9pm, and I’m doing this 7 days a week, to get back to 1500, naturaly.‘’ The TRT, is due to medications I’m on, that shut my test off completely. To anyone that thinks 200 a week is cheating, your welcome to take a look at my log, how much work, and food, I’m doing, and where my weights are at. I’ve been through this before, and I know 1500 is achievable, but at the end of my natural capabilities, genetic limit’s if you will.
I could use now, to get to 1500 faster, but then I wouldn’t have the strength base. I personaly think guys shouldn’t get into anything, until they’ve tapped out they’re potential naturaly, this can take anywhere from 3-15yrs, in my expierance. If you do this first, I’ve found, you only need minimal gear, to get you past the sticking point. This is how I look at it. I’d rather find the smallest amount, that will help me, over a hump, rather than doing a boat load, and hoping somthing works. I believe juice is a training tool, used in small amounts, at certain points, when needed, so that when your not running, you don’t loose anything. Sorry I ramble, and repeat myself, I skipped english class to go to the gym At this point, if and when I use, I’m a test only guy, hope this is what you were after, clear as mud[/quote]
Thanks for being honest about this.
Have you ever had levels checked while on TRT dosages? How does 200mg weekly impact levels? Was wondering if that kind of dose would just put you at the very top end of normal range. But I could be way off with that guess.
I don’t know, because it’s two different Dr’s, my general Dr does my blood work, and physical’s twice a year. The specialist gives TRT, so I don’t know, but I will say this, as I did on another thread the other day. I believe the TRT dose I’m on helps with size, for what ever reason, I gain size easier than most people, but the dose doesn’t seem to be enough to help with my strength, at 200 a week, I strugle to gain strength, the same as back when I wasn’t on TRT, if I up the dose to 500 a week, my strength improves, I can feel it, so 450-500 is where I need to be personaly to gain strength. This actually works against you as a PLer, I keep going up in weight classes, without the strength increase, I’m not complaining
When I do have kids that are going to use, no way to talk them out of it. I try and help them find the minimum they can gain on, for me thats 500, but I’ve had a kid that got a growth spurt at 350, and the dealer told him to start at 1000 a week, so atleast there’s that. If your going to use, try and find the sweet spot, why waste. Latter
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I don’t know, because it’s two different Dr’s, my general Dr does my blood work, and physical’s twice a year. The specialist gives TRT, so I don’t know, but I will say this, as I did on another thread the other day. I believe the TRT dose I’m on helps with size, for what ever reason, I gain size easier than most people, but the dose doesn’t seem to be enough to help with my strength, at 200 a week, I strugle to gain strength, the same as back when I wasn’t on TRT, if I up the dose to 500 a week, my strength improves, I can feel it, so 450-500 is where I need to be personaly to gain strength. This actually works against you as a PLer, I keep going up in weight classes, without the strength increase, I’m not complaining When I do have kids that are going to use, no way to talk them out of it. I try and help them find the minimum they can gain on, for me thats 500, but I’ve had a kid that got a growth spurt at 350, and the dealer told him to start at 1000 a week, so atleast there’s that. If your going to use, try and find the sweet spot, why waste. Latter[/quote]
Interesting. Thanks for the response.
hopefully thats Greg’s legacy, to highligt the darker side, and mabey make people think
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Always a shame, and despite his less than stellar performance as a pro, the guy truly loved bodybuilding.
Greg was one of the first IFBB Pros I met way back when, at the old Musclemag store in Westbury, NY.
S[/quote]
Wow, I remember that store. I got ISSA certified right up the block.
[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
Hey greg, I’m on 200 test E a week right now, thats a high TRT dose, but thats all I’ve run for almost 3yrs. Now other than the last 6mth my training the last 2yrs has been pretty sporatic due to life, with the whole year of 2012 not training at all. Before that, for the years following my run of tren, (I think 09), to finaly get my double body weight bench, I did blast and cruise, for a couple years, thats confusing. I know, but here’s my present training.
After a year off all togeather, I came back 6mths ago, pretty out of shape, and I wanted to build my base back naturaly, so I'm training for a 1500lb total (just TRT) it's tough, but I want my natural base back. When I get to 1500 I'll probably do some blasts of 500 a week for 12wks(as needed) then back to my TRT, but right now, and this is what guys need to here, '' I'm busting my guts out, force feeding myself, and getting to bed by 9pm, and I'm doing this 7 days a week, to get back to 1500, naturaly.'' The TRT, is due to medications I'm on, that shut my test off completely. To anyone that thinks 200 a week is cheating, your welcome to take a look at my log, how much work, and food, I'm doing, and where my weights are at. I've been through this before, and I know 1500 is achievable, but at the end of my natural capabilities, genetic limit's if you will.
I could use now, to get to 1500 faster, but then I wouldn’t have the strength base. I personaly think guys shouldn’t get into anything, until they’ve tapped out they’re potential naturaly, this can take anywhere from 3-15yrs, in my expierance. If you do this first, I’ve found, you only need minimal gear, to get you past the sticking point. This is how I look at it. I’d rather find the smallest amount, that will help me, over a hump, rather than doing a boat load, and hoping somthing works. I believe juice is a training tool, used in small amounts, at certain points, when needed, so that when your not running, you don’t loose anything. Sorry I ramble, and repeat myself, I skipped english class to go to the gym At this point, if and when I use, I’m a test only guy, hope this is what you were after, clear as mud[/quote]
Oh cool, thanks for sharing Jake.
[quote]JBL5 wrote:
Thanks for being honest about this.
Have you ever had levels checked while on TRT dosages? How does 200mg weekly impact levels? Was wondering if that kind of dose would just put you at the very top end of normal range. But I could be way off with that guess.
[/quote]
Obviously everyone responds differently but 200mg a week is the higher end of TRT dosing. Standard dosing starts at 100mg a week. It all depends on how your body responds.
I don’t need steroids to outlift all the dumbasses on it at my gym. Woot woot
Arnold started taking reckless amounts of Dbol at 14. But in his day and age it paid off.
Get big or die trying.