Coach Davies,
Very informational article and also Forum info. No doubt, the athletes who follow these are in superb shape. A “devils’ advocate” question: when Northwestern lost to the 'Huskers in the Alamo Bowl, I thought they got pushed around. No question Nebraska has slightly better recruits (but not the best in the U.S. though)but they always seem to hold up physically. My question is: would a circuit training w/o of heavy weights, resting 30 sec.(huddle?) times 4 to 5 sets be of value? Seems like this w/o may get an athlete higher absolute strength. I can see though in soccer or rugby, your w/o would be absolutely perfect.
Now, don’t do a Capt. Marcinko ‘blue streak’ on me!
You’re quite right Nebraska did push around Northwestern. But comparing the recruiting talent amongst those schools is ridiculous (slightly better, please). For Northwestern which was ranked in most preseason polls as last in the Big 10 and 94th in the nation, the feat of co-winning the conference was an incredible feat. I have said this before, but I think it was one of the greatest examples of preparation for competition. Forget about my work, the entire staff of Randy Walker may have done one of the finest coaching jobs in many years. As far as circuit training, I really don’t circuit-train, I often utilize dynamic complexes in athletes which are radically different. The concept of “hanging and banging” in the weight room is considered by some as a coach being out of touch with the game or simply the uninformed. From a pure weight room perspective, it appears to me that dynamic lifting approaches work pretty well for Westside Barbell and I think you can easily see the co-relation of our theories. And I won’t do the “blue streak” routine on you because your question is an honest-one. Now if you want to talk about developing great athletes from great talent, training protocols change. I would love to talk - so you opened it up. In faith, Coach Davies
OK, coach, I understand. Now that I think of it, Westside, utilizing a lower weight, and driving it up very fast…IS quite dynamic. I would suppose that Schroeder from Phoenix (admittedly one shockingly effective athlete developed but to be fair, maybe more on the way)and a few others harbor the same philosophy. Neuronal effeciency and strength endurance are critical.
However, I’ve read that Pavel and others…feel that the athlete should lift very heavy weight about 5 reps. But this would be just for strength, not for sport, correct?
Welcome back coach!
Speaking of football…I can smell it in the air…I was just talking today with a friend of mine about how much we are looking forward to the start of college football season. I got my eyes on a number of teams. Coach are you able to tell us what teams you are working with so that we can keep our eyes on and root for them during the season?
dont circuit train if you want more power or max strength. I repeat do not do it. It can though bring up your anaerobic threshold. READ “Science and Practice of Strength Training” by Vladamir M. Zatsiorsky. It is a short but extremely informative read. You could also read Supertraining, as it has even more info, but Supertraining is boring as hell to read and super long.
Big Red
Coach davies is right. It’s apples and oranges. Neb and Northwestern can recruit differnt athletes. Northwestern still has strict academic requirements for the admission of their athletes. Neb gets some of the best kids in the country. Offensively, Neb should have pushed Northwestern around. Their biggest D-line was 260. Everyone else the Northwestern played moved the ball, including Northern Illinois and Iowa. Northwestern was not a defensive team. Defensively, Neb had 6 weeks to figure out their scheme and they did. With the no huddle, defenses don’t have a chance to call their plays. Nebraska did. They stemmed their D-line ( shifted their tackles and nose) so the offensive line could not use their calls to run their zone effectively. Remember, Nortwestern ran the ball 70% of ther time. Also Neb brought 7 or 8 people every play. They got that from Iowa, who beat Northwestern as well. If you want to compare apple and apples, let Clemson play Nebraska.
Actually this is a great topic Big Red because it also emphasizes that evolution of strength & speed work as it pertains to football. What has been difficult to express is that training programs for athletes is not a simple 5 day a week but an large training model. As I noted in this weeks article, that training session represents the seconds half of the first day of this summers training. It differs radically in volume and intensity to the final weeks because my intent is to have the athletes a maximum power/speed at the onset of training camp and then maintain. Gotta’ love talking ball. In faith, Coach Davies
DMAN, thanks. Thinking that football has a high strength component to it, I am glad for your comment. Perhaps WRs and backs would benefit most. As Coach said, myriad other factors are at play; recruiting, the offense installed, etc, etc.
Big Red
Dman
Some circuit training can be quite effective in developing volume which has a huge impact on strength. Remember, when the Soviets write, their athletes are fit and have been building volume since they were children. Therefore, their athletes have no need for circuit traing and can have a negative effect on their training. Americans do not have the same benefits of the Russian athlete as far as a level of fitness. Why did Louie Simmons go to GPP? Why do our Olympic lifters, strongmen and throwers not excel? That is why Louie went to GPP. I agree if it is a Cybex, Gold’s gym machine circuit. It will not help. But a proper ly designed circuit will work wonders.
My type of training is not only for skill positions, I probably have more big men use my work than any because they recognize explosive power gets there game to the next level. The answer in training for football does not come in the form of sets and reps but in the realization that you are preparing an athlete for contact in motion and there specific function on the field. Specialization to the movement is a tremendous key. Consider the training the Westside use with sled work and how it is unbelievably applicable to a lineman and is one of the best development exercises. I use a series of 10 movements on Louie’s pulling sled to mimic Offensive line hand movements. Also I use a “max effort” day like Louie Simmons, except I tend to utilize functional movments within that day. I wish I had the luxury of writing a full football training article to help you see everything because it really is a HUGE topic. But I will be happy to discuss more.
In faith, Coach Davies
pg. 118 Science and Practice—“Because of the low strength gains (in comparison with those obtained from regular strength training routines), circuit training is not recommended and is hardly ever used in strength and power sports.” Kato, i think you and i are talking on different levels here. WSB does extra workouts to raise their GPP aka their fitness level. What this generally does is help raise aerobic fitness (which helps recovery) and some of the anaerobic threshold, and also to raise their work capacity (related to the above factors and others), in a way that doesnt fatigue the muscles that much. They never do this at the same time as a reg workout, and sled dragging is not a circuit routine. You are correct that work capacity is important, but in order to increase it, you add more volume, not necessarily circuit train. Last thing, Big Red, you could experiment with some circuit training stuff (using hard lifts like squats and PCs) a month before your season, as long as you limit normal maximal strength training. Back to you coach D.
Dman
give me an example of your circuit workout.
i don’t do circuits kato, i thought that was kinda obvious from my post. Neither does WSB atleast not in the truest, traditional sense.
Dman
From your post heavy weights with 30 sec rest is what WSB does on their dynamic day, except they use between 40-60% with 30 -45 sec rest between sets. Let me ask my previous post in a different form, how would you define circuit training?
Dman
I’ll quit mincing words. I use to believe exactly what you believe. I read the same books. I’ve even seen Mel Siff speak on a variety of occasions. I thought circuit training was worhless. Then Coach Davies brought on this archaic workout, which has some features similiar to a circuit. I did it for 3 weeks. I got stronger and I was in better shape. The workouts had the same effect on my athletes as well. I know to really improve your max strength you need rest. But when Coach Davies publishes this workout, give it a try and let me know what you think. You will swear it is like dragging from hell.
Coach can you describe the o-line hand movements using the sled for us, Thanks Big Diesel
I feel like I am starting to post warning before each comment now - but this is sport specific work. Before I go far - , are you familiar with the sled that Louie Simmons uses at Westside Barbell? Let me know and we can go further. Are you a coach or player. In faith, Coach Davies
I am an offensive tackle, looking for any sport specific drills I can implement. D
Thank you - all these posts and finally a OLineman. Are you familiar with the pulling sled that Louie Simmons & Dave Tate use? And if so do you have access to one or make one. I will wait to hear from you. In faith, Coach Davies
I have a homemade sled that I can pull, and it is just like the westside one, ie takes oly plates. Have a strap to a belt for dragging and a long rope with loops for upper body use, have done reactive style bench presses while walking, upper cut motion, rotator work.