Gored Matador

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Fail Push.

Abortion is not a tradition.
[/quote]

It’s fast becoming one, wouldn’t you say?[/quote]

no, it isn’t

fail and weak sauce

[/quote]
So you see it becoming less and less prevalent and therefore eventually non-traditional?[/quote]

is that what I said? Would you please cite where I said that? Stop the dissemination of lies. And also stop trying to make this work, you fail.

[/quote]
I didn’t state that you stated that. I asked a question. I thought you were headed in a particular direction with your comment. I was wrong.

There. I have conceded wrongness THREE times here. Who is being reasonable and conciliatory here?[/quote]

I believe I have been reasonable. I have stated that I get your opinion. I have stated my opinion. I have stated that we do not agree.

I have nothing to concede. I do not, and will not support animal torture for entertainment.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

By the way, Celeste, you’re gettin’ so stoked about this you’re forgettin’ to capitalize. Stop the dissemination of bad grammar![/quote]

I’m not that stoked up about it really. To me it is black and white that animal torture is not something I would support.

I quite frequently do not capitalize my sentence beginnings and I also incorrectly at times will start sentences with “and” and I am big on fragments.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Don’t you think it would be more fun to argue if we were together? Alone.

You’ve gotta admit I would always win. Cuz if you started to get the upper hand for some strange inexplicable reason I would just hold you down and have my way with you.

That’s amore, baby.

[/quote]

I am a fan of Dean Martin. “I’ve got these memoriessssss… he’s got you…”

Discussing with you would be fun because I know that you can discuss and not take it personally if we disagree.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

Don’t you think it would be more fun to argue if we were together? Alone.

You’ve gotta admit I would always win. Cuz if you started to get the upper hand for some strange inexplicable reason I would just hold you down and have my way with you.

That’s amore, baby.

[/quote]

I am a fan of Dean Martin. “I’ve got these memoriessssss… he’s got you…”

Discussing with you would be fun because I know that you can discuss and not take it personally if we disagree.[/quote]

Not only that but we could smooch a lot while we were discussin’.[/quote]

Don’t think I don’t know what you are doing, but it does seem that I have probably said all that I can on my opinion of tradition.

I’m pretty sure folks probably know where I stand on this issue.

And I work tomorrow so I am going to bed.

Always nice bashing things about with you Push. =)

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
B. That’s exactly what you should expect when you tease a powerful beast[/quote]

Not exactly. If I recall correctly in Europe (Spain and southern France) EVERY YEAR there are ten of thousands of bulls tortured to death by those effeminate clowns. On the other hand only a dozen of those jerks (Spain) have been killed in the last 200 years. By the way writing “torturing” a powerful (but nonetheless helpless) animal would be more accurate than “teasing”. This is actual torture.

Of course this is not the killing of an animal per se which is problematic but its systematic torture beforehand.

Some “cool” vids:

LOL

As the resident bull here, I feel the need to weigh in…

I hate when a topic dissolves into this kind of argument.

Abortion vs. Animal Cruelty. C’mon.

I think a better comparison to make is Spanish Bullfighting vs. Horse Racing.

I’ve been to Spain, I’ve seen bullfights, up close and personal in 300+ year old arenas made of limestone… The whole she-bang. The end game is pretty brutal, of course. In one event there were 5 different bulls that were ultimately euthanized in the arena that I recall. Being a matador takes nerve, skill, balls, talent, athleticism, showmanship, grace, and the list can go on and on. The crowd cheers for the Matador, it doesn’t root for the bull. The crowd jeers and boos, though, when the Matador is sloppy and the bull has to be dispatched with the short knife. It’s an extremely intricate dance between man and animal, steeped in tradition and national pride.

That being said, it’s not for me.

I didn’t grow up on it, don’t understand it, and don’t really enjoy watching an animal die like that.

Now, lets look at horse racing. A pursuit that is global, a pursuit that is roundly accepted by the American public, and a pursuit that I’d wager goes through MORE animals, horses at that, than the whole bullfighting circuit in all of Spain.

Here’s an article.

Long story short, there were almost 120 horses euthanized between 2001 and 2008 at one horse track (Del Mar, here in sunny San Diego) all for gambling, all for making money. So that all the ladies can put on their fancy hats and parade around the paddock on opening day. And, Del Mar only races for a portion of the summer, not even the whole year.

Multiply that by busier race tracks all over the nation? We’re killing more thoroughbred horses for the pursuit of fucking Gambling than the Spaniards are killing Bulls for their own pursuits.

And please don’t say that “the horses only got put down because of an injury” as a viable defense, because it’s not. Those horses wouldn’t have been injured had they not been employed for the enjoyment of people, same why bulls are led into arenas to their ultimate slaughter.

There’s also circuses, rodeos, etc, where the numbers can be increased.

So, in my opinion as resident bull around here, I say put down the stones and adsorb the OP story for what it’s worth, and move on. Spend too much energy on Bullfighting and you’ll be forced to look more domestically at what Americans do to animals too.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

Push, it’s torture, it’s right up there with dog fighting.
[/quote]

I’ve been around these big boys. They don’t feel pain like you and I do. Don’t succumb to the false sense of anthropomorphism.[/quote]

As a country boy I’ve also been around these big boys (of course we also kill some of the animals we eat…). They do feel pain like us as long as the stimulus is strong enough to cause a painful reaction. What is strong enough for a bull? Broken bones and the penetration of a sharp object in the muscle tissue…

By the way farmers rely on nose ring to control a bull. If bulls were insensitive to pain a mere nose ring would be useless…


lol @ the sensationalists in here

Hmmmm. Scenario:

Aliens land on Earth after leaving their own planet where broccoli is considered a legitimate citizen of society and gets to vote. They are appalled by the fact that we eat broccoli here. Do they have right to stop us?

Is eating broccoli bad?

Push is right. Right and wrong are relative and we do not have the right to stick our noses into EVERYONE ELSE’S business and decide for them what is right and wrong. That is what led to Native Americans losing their land…the belief that “those savages” didn’t know what to do with it…which is WRONG according to our own society.

You don’t have to agree with it. You don’t have to take part in it.

That is THEIR culture and TO THEM it is not wrong. Therefore, why whine about them doing it?

[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
Being a matador takes nerve, skill, balls, talent, athleticism, showmanship, grace, and the list can go on and on.
It’s an extremely intricate dance between man and animal, steeped in tradition and national pride.
[/quote]

LOL at this crap.

If instead of a bull the matador was fighting a tiger or a bear I would agree it takes nerve, skill, showmanship…Bulls are herbivorous animals, and though they are powerful beasts, they aren’t skilled predators. Their defensive behavior is basic (rushing headfirst) and very predictable and this explains why there are so few matadors who are killed or seriously injured during a fight.

“Corrida de toros” is not “an extremely intricate dance between man and animal”. The beast isn’t dancing, it pitifully struggles for its life, it reacts to pain and emotional distress from being endlessly stab by a bunch of clowns wearing costumes which seem to come straight out from the local gay pride…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmmm. Scenario:

Aliens land on Earth after leaving their own planet where broccoli is considered a legitimate citizen of society and gets to vote. They are appalled by the fact that we eat broccoli here. Do they have right to stop us?

Is eating broccoli bad?

Push is right. Right and wrong are relative and we do not have the right to stick our noses into EVERYONE ELSE’S business and decide for them what is right and wrong. That is what led to Native Americans losing their land…the belief that “those savages” didn’t know what to do with it…which is WRONG according to our own society.

You don’t have to agree with it. You don’t have to take part in it.

That is THEIR culture and TO THEM it is not wrong. Therefore, why whine about them doing it?[/quote]

Moral relativism is sometimes very convenient especially when used to legitimize some deviant behaviors…

The Native Americans were partially exterminated and lost their land to people who came from a technologically superior civilization. That “those savages don’t know how to use their land” was an excuse to rob them, not the real motive. Native americans fate is actually a good example of moral relativism.
The europeans knew that it was wrong to shoot in the head natives’ children, to displace entire tribes to some shitty reservations…but they still did it because cohabitation between these two radically different civilizations was impossible. One of the two had to die.
My point is that the settlers knew in the bottom of their heart that the treatment of the Natives was morally unacceptable so they dehumanized them. The dehumanization and the extermination of the natives were morally wrong but much more convenient for the settlers that going back to Europe.
Before destroying native americans’ civilization Europeans had to sacrifice some of their own core values, this is moral relativism (cheating people out of their lands, starving them into signing fraudulent agreements called treaties which were never kept, shooting their children and women…weren’t really consistent with the core value of European settlers)

Moral becomes a problem when it is used as an excuse or a political tool to rob other people’s land and wealth. Nobody here is insinuating that we have to nuke or invade any nation in which there are bullfights. We’re just expressing our thoughts and feelings about this.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

That is THEIR culture and TO THEM it is not wrong. Therefore, why whine about them doing it?[/quote]

Prof, I have to disagree. Under your analysis slavery, ethnic “cleansing”, genocide, FGM, are all OK because they entrenched in certain cultures.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hmmmm. Scenario:

Aliens land on Earth after leaving their own planet where broccoli is considered a legitimate citizen of society and gets to vote. They are appalled by the fact that we eat broccoli here. Do they have right to stop us?

Is eating broccoli bad?

Push is right. Right and wrong are relative and we do not have the right to stick our noses into EVERYONE ELSE’S business and decide for them what is right and wrong. That is what led to Native Americans losing their land…the belief that “those savages” didn’t know what to do with it…which is WRONG according to our own society.

You don’t have to agree with it. You don’t have to take part in it.

That is THEIR culture and TO THEM it is not wrong. Therefore, why whine about them doing it?[/quote]

Let’s discuss child brides, like the kind you see in India or Pakistan.

Let’s discuss how their husbands effectively rape them at age 9.

Culture? I think not.