Good Basic Fighting Style

Training
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[quote]tremad12 wrote:
Hey guys I’ve never posted in this section before but I had a question that pertains to combat sports. My college has a ton of fighting and martial arts clubs and I’m thinking of joining one of them. I was wondering what type of martial arts or other combat style you guys would suggest that is relatively simple. I’m not looking for anything flashy or anything, just basic self defense that could be useable if ever needed. Thanks. [/quote]

Try them all. For full contact, there’s kyokushin and muay thai.
I am biased towards (shin)kyokushin, since i practice it but either kyokushin or muay thai are good. Both are very straight forward fighting styles. The fancy stuff never works. The basics and simplest moves are the most effective.

The advantage of kyokushin is that there is no protection, so you learn how to punch and kick properly and take hits to the body. There are no gloves or helmets or anything. It’s really FULL contact.
The advantage is that punching bare fisted and with gloves on are two very different things.
When you punch someone bare fisted, your wrist should be straight and you hit your target with the first two large knuckles (index and middle). Most people hit with their outer hand (maybe middle but usually pinky and ring knuckle).

First two knuckles: This is because it aligns with your forearm to deliver maximum force and you wont risk breaking your wrist since the force goes straight.
However a flaw with kyokushin would be in terms of punch protection. You will learn how to protect your head…but mostly against kicks and knees, not so much elbow or fists.
IMO this is a problem since most street fights are fists. So by practicing kyokushin you might have a false sense of head security.

Muay thai is good because you need to learn to protect your head from punches. So it can be more well rounded.

You’ll have to weigh the pros with the cons.

Ground work and grappling is important too. Judo, wrestling, or BJJ or whatever you want that will help you manipulate people to pin them or stop them. Most fights will start with pushing and shoving. If you know some ground work or grabs you can pin the guy down before a punch is thrown.

maybe Boxing to work on extra protection to the head.

IMO it’s not enough to just do one or the other. You want to be well rounded.
If it’s with your university, or free, id try several things and stick with 2-3. One full contact (most people dont kick in fights, but knowing how to and doing so could help you in a pinch) and at least one wrestling/judo/wrestling/ground work for obvious reasons.
Also most important, since it is for protection, after you knock the guy away or get in an advantageous position, RUN.
Don’t play the hero.
Good luck!

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One thing i’d like to add.
Make sure to check the laws of your state/province/county/country/whatever in terms of self defense.
I lived in germany for a few years, and they have some crazy shit. This is what i was told and never had to face any of it so some of it could be not true:
-If someone attacks you, you must wait 3 seconds before you can counter attack. Also, he must be attacking you during those 3 seconds or you could be as guilty as him.
-Guilty until proven innocent

Like i said, some of this might be bull, but the point still stands.
Self defense isnt just a street thing anymore.
There have been cases of criminals suing the victims because the victim hurt them some how.
Self defense also occurs in a court of law. Make sure you know what you can and cannot do if ever you’re in an unfavorable situation (robbery, random mugger, etc).

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[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

Here’s a serious question…If you’re in a situation with a gun ,you have no escape…and it’s pretty much guaranteed that you are going to get shot…what are you going to do? Remember,you said gun disarms are easy…so enlighten us all.

Can you be a little more specific? How close is the guy? Is he behind me, in front of me? Is he hostile or calm? Do you actually want me to explain the technique?

And just to be clear, if someone has a weapon, especially a gun or knife, compliance is the only way to go. Disarms are to be saved for when you have reason to believe you’re going to be killed or seriously injured regardless of cooperation.[/quote]

And thats why I said: “You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.”

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Oh my. This thread has already devolved into the “How can I disarm 27 ninjas with machine guns” scenario. That took two pages.

Congrats gents.

Well, here’s my take- fuck most of you, you’ve got no goddamn idea what you’re saying. As always happens when this comes up, every one talks out of their asses, especially the cats who go into a ring for sport and think it translates to the street. IT DOES NOT.

Any style is good, but not for every situation. If you’re a distance boxer, you’ll have a tough time with a grappler in a crowded bar. If you’re BJJ guy, you’ll have a tough time (read, deadly) with a thug with a knife who just got out of county. If you’re a brawler, you’re going to have a hard time with Aikidoist who leads your ass into a wall as soon as you don’t pull your punch back quick enough.

For the dipshit that said “stay away from anything with a string of Chinese/Japanese names”, well, you’re fuckin wrong, too. I’m not here to push my style of fighting- it’s got it’s strong points and weak points like every other style. You have to cover that spot with all kinds of techniques that you learn formally and informally- I first learned the figure 4 lock from an army buddy who was in Afghanistan. If you are truly interested in this, you will seek people out and learn what you can from them.

And if you think katas are useless, well, then I guess you truly have no conception of the benefit of repeating the same moves over and over so they become muscle memory (hmmm… shadowboxing anyone? Must be useless). Most people don’t know that most arts, hell, nearly all of them, have katas- even Pankration.

Some of the same moves used in Krav Maga are used in my system of Gojuryu- but it’s got an Okinawan name, so it MUST be useless, huh?

My sensei generally teaches that if you’ve got to do more than four moves to get the fuck out of that situation, than you’re doing something wrong. This is the basis for most SELF DEFENSE tactics- hit hard, do damage, and book it. This ain’t the motherfucking octagon, and friends and weapons and cops can and will get involved, so don’t sit around trying to pin someone.

Any style is better than nothing. However, fighting is so goddamned random that nothing will gaurantee your safety. I’ve been hit with all kinds of shit, from knees to bottles to sucker punches and headbutts and elbows. I’ve seen guys hit with cue balls in socks, chased with tiki torches, and beaten with all kinds of crap that I’m too tired to list now. The moral of the story is that there are no rules, and what works in the ring can get you killed in the street.

It amazes me how few people take into account weapons when they talk like this…everyone lives in some John Wayne fucking world where two guys square off mano y mano and duke it out.

No my man, this shit is ugly. Hell, a friend of mine beat someone with a damn cement ashtray at a DMV once. People will do whatever they can to save their asses.

If you want to learn a fighting style, then find the best, most reputable teacher you can and learn from him. Learn the moves on the floor, and then do your research into all the other aspects. People give TKD a whole mess of shit- but if you get caught in an empty parking lot with a good TKD fighter, you’re going to be picking your teeth up off the cement. Boxing is good, but it’s incomplete because it doesn’t teach you how to tuck your chin when someone gets you in a choke hold, and will never teach you something so simple as a crossface to get out of a headlock.

And I’m just using that as an example that the best one is going to be a mix of hard and soft style, where you can parry attacks, strike back, do joint manipulations, etc. Hence why I like things like Gojuryu, Kali, Krav Maga, etc, and don’t like straight striking or grappling arts for self defense. But that’s just my opinion.

Either way, there are no shitty arts, just shitty fighters.

And for the guy that recommended nononsenseselfdefense.com, hats off. Marc MacYoung’s info has saved my ass many times, and I am ever impressed with the things he says.

/end rant.[/quote]

Good post…as usual in these matters.

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[quote]anoddparadigm wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Sensei Oberloh always says “Martial Arts are about defeating multiple attackers.”

I may be a naive sport fighter, but my experiences from having to fight one attacker has lead me to not be delusion enough to think me or anyone could defeat multiple attackers. In fact, the hundreds of hours I have spent on the mats makes me think martial arts should be about surviving and escaping multiple attackers.

Anyone who thinks they can defeat multiple skilled attackers has probably never fought ONE fully resisting attacker.

[/quote]

The people you are fighting are trained, most street thugs are not. The things you don’t think about because they’re illegal in the ring are the things that will end a fight immediately.

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[quote]shizen wrote:
I get the sense that people who train for fighting end up getting in fights much more then someone who dos not which is stupid. I don’t understand why you would learn to fight in hopes of fighting. I’ve been able to diffuse a lot of potential fights just by being calm and not instigating something that would get me in trouble or hurt.

Really just do a fighting style you have FUN in, never hope to get into a fight but just some basic skills and the fact most fighting arts will get you in amazing shape will put you in a better situation to be alright then the average guy. Your never going to be able to protect yourself against EVERYTHING so just don’t worry about it. [/quote]

Have I not made it clear that I’m not talking about getting into fights? I’m not in high school and if you are please abstain from this argument.

For the record, I’m a giant beast so fighting is not something that I ever encounter except for some very rare times. If I were to be attacked it would be by armed or multiple attackers, therefore that is what I train for. I live in a relatively violent city so I know it’s wise to be prepared. Plus I do love martial arts simply for the experience.

I have never claimed fighting is good in any way. Fighting is bad in every way, but for those of us who aren’t sheltered it’s a potential reality that it’s wise to prepare for. If you’re not ready for it you’ll quickly be overwhelmed and freeze up.

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back to your question, i do taekwondo, boxing, ju-jitsu, judo, kickboxing and mixed martial arts which brings them all together.
learn how to box, it is simple and will get you out of a fight very quickly, and more importantly, dont frigin go to places your likely to get attacked!
thats a pretty basic rule they will teach you in any self defence class, think first, fight second.

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[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

And thats why I said: “You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.”
[/quote]

What??? You make no sense. Are you in high school?

69

also, wrestling is quite good if you end up with someone grabbing you, you wont freeze up like most untrained people will

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[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

And thats why I said: “You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.”

What??? You make no sense. Are you in high school?[/quote]

If I am…you’re in Pre-K. You have T-Nation on your Leap Frog? :stuck_out_tongue:

Don’t see why you have a hard time understanding…but it doesn’t matter anyways.

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[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:

And thats why I said: “You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.”

What??? You make no sense. Are you in high school?

If I am…you’re in Pre-K. You have T-Nation on your Leap Frog? :stuck_out_tongue:

Don’t see why you have a hard time understanding…but it doesn’t matter anyways.[/quote]

Hahahahahaha Yes, I sense true brilliance in you.

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[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
shizen wrote:
I get the sense that people who train for fighting end up getting in fights much more then someone who dos not which is stupid. I don’t understand why you would learn to fight in hopes of fighting. I’ve been able to diffuse a lot of potential fights just by being calm and not instigating something that would get me in trouble or hurt.

Really just do a fighting style you have FUN in, never hope to get into a fight but just some basic skills and the fact most fighting arts will get you in amazing shape will put you in a better situation to be alright then the average guy. Your never going to be able to protect yourself against EVERYTHING so just don’t worry about it.

Have I not made it clear that I’m not talking about getting into fights? I’m not in high school and if you are please abstain from this argument.

For the record, I’m a giant beast so fighting is not something that I ever encounter except for some very rare times. If I were to be attacked it would be by armed or multiple attackers, therefore that is what I train for. I live in a relatively violent city so I know it’s wise to be prepared. Plus I do love martial arts simply for the experience.

I have never claimed fighting is good in any way. Fighting is bad in every way, but for those of us who aren’t sheltered it’s a potential reality that it’s wise to prepare for. If you’re not ready for it you’ll quickly be overwhelmed and freeze up.[/quote]

Wait you want to prepare yourself for something that the odds if it happening are almost zero? In which you wont survive anyways since if there bringing a group of people with weapons your fucked. Really you thinking is that you can come out of anything which you can’t, the normal street fight is instigated by two people arguing not a group of people with weapons looking to kill you for no reason.

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[quote]shizen wrote:

Wait you want to prepare yourself for something that the odds if it happening are almost zero? In which you wont survive anyways since if there bringing a group of people with weapons your fucked. Really you thinking is that you can come out of anything which you can’t, the normal street fight is instigated by two people arguing not a group of people with weapons looking to kill you for no reason. [/quote]

How some of your brains work I’ll never know. I never implied a “group” or “for no reason.” Yes the normal street fight is two people, but I have been surrounded by multiple people when I jumped in to help a friend who was drunk and hitting on the wrong chick. 4 guys started beating him up and I stepped in with force and difused the situation before any REAL violence happened. Aside from that I’ve seen many people get jumped by multiple people, it happens all the time.

And yes it is unlikely you’ll defeat multiple opponents, but if you know how to try you should if you have no other choice. I don’t know where you live, but I don’t live in Mayberry. Maybe you just haven’t been out enough.

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[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
shizen wrote:

Wait you want to prepare yourself for something that the odds if it happening are almost zero? In which you wont survive anyways since if there bringing a group of people with weapons your fucked. Really you thinking is that you can come out of anything which you can’t, the normal street fight is instigated by two people arguing not a group of people with weapons looking to kill you for no reason.

How some of your brains work I’ll never know. I never implied a “group” or “for no reason.” Yes the normal street fight is two people, but I have been surrounded by multiple people when I jumped in to help a friend who was drunk and hitting on the wrong chick. 4 guys started beating him up and I stepped in with force and difused the situation before any REAL violence happened. Aside from that I’ve seen many people get jumped by multiple people, it happens all the time.

And yes it is unlikely you’ll defeat multiple opponents, but if you know how to try you should if you have no other choice. I don’t know where you live, but I don’t live in Mayberry. Maybe you just haven’t been out enough. [/quote]

I go out plenty more often then not the ‘tough’ guys who look like they want to fight end up getting into fights and its retarded. I’m just saying all this arguing about what style is the best is pretty pointless. You should just do a style you have fun with thats available. Its good to be prepared but you will never be prepared for every scenario. Having just some basic fighting skill and the fact it will get you in shape will be enough to handle almost any normal situation.

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[quote]shizen wrote:
I go out plenty more often then not the ‘tough’ guys who look like they want to fight end up getting into fights and its retarded. I’m just saying all this arguing about what style is the best is pretty pointless. You should just do a style you have fun with thats available. Its good to be prepared but you will never be prepared for every scenario. Having just some basic fighting skill and the fact it will get you in shape will be enough to handle almost any normal situation. [/quote]

I agree with you totally. Like most things in life martial arts are a journey, not a destination. If you don’t have fun while doing whatever you do, you’re bound to give up before acheiving your goals.

I’m not arguing about styles, I’m just trying to make a point that people need to practice non sport techniques so that they will come into action in non sport situations if they arise.

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[quote]shizen wrote:
I get the sense that people who train for fighting end up getting in fights much more then someone who dos not which is stupid. I don’t understand why you would learn to fight in hopes of fighting. I’ve been able to diffuse a lot of potential fights just by being calm and not instigating something that would get me in trouble or hurt.
[/quote]

On a personal level, I’ve found this to be untrue. I got into way more fights before I started any formal training. I’m not an aggressive guy, but when I was pushed I would not hesitate to push back.

Now I care way less about proving myself to another drunkard in a bar. I’ve noticed this to be true of most of the guys I train with as well. There are some exceptions, the guys who always seem to have a chip on their shoulder and are pains in the ass to train with because everything turns into an all out war, but the majority of guys do not engage in confrontations away from the academy.

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[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Stabbing someone is usually a bad idea. Legally you are far better off shooting someone or clubbing them with a random object.

Please elaborate[/quote]

Prosecutors tend to see carrying knives as premeditation. If you stab someone with your carry knife they do not see it as self defense.

This is quite well known.

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[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Stabbing someone is usually a bad idea. Legally you are far better off shooting someone or clubbing them with a random object.

Please elaborate

Prosecutors tend to see carrying knives as premeditation. If you stab someone with your carry knife they do not see it as self defense.

This is quite well known.[/quote]

Which of course, is ridiculas and asinine. I mean, of course it’s premeditated, all good self defense is!

The law it seems, at least as it pertains to self defense, does not favor the prepared. Nothing makes me more insane than to hear about cases when some dicksmack tries to rob someone, and after getting seriously hurt in the process by someone who prepared for the scenario of protecting his/her life and property; hires an attorney and sues the individual that was acting in self defense.

I carry a knife everywhere, and know how to use it with confidence. I also wouldn’t hesitate to cut someone trying to harm me or my family. Although, lately I’ve been considering getting my CCW permit. Even if I don’t carry my pistol, it would at least show that I was a citizen who put some legal forethought into my self defense, and not some thug who was just looking for his opportunity to cut someone.

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[quote]tremad12 wrote:
My college has a ton of fighting and martial arts clubs and I’m thinking of joining one of them. [/quote]

BTW… You lucky son of a bitch :slight_smile:

my options were TKD, Ninjutsu and Wrestling.

Luckily i found out that the “self defense” instructor was a Gene Lebell blackbelt, had yrs of MT and i wrestled too.

So imo, make the best use of the things that you have access to. You have enough advice on this thread to be able to piece together something.

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[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

Stabbing someone is usually a bad idea. Legally you are far better off shooting someone or clubbing them with a random object.

Please elaborate

Prosecutors tend to see carrying knives as premeditation. If you stab someone with your carry knife they do not see it as self defense.

This is quite well known.[/quote]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

i carry a collapsible baton so i can make use of my DBMA skills. I know it’ll get me in a shitload of trouble legally but I’d rather be in legal trouble than have someone i care about injured.

personally i just keep a good eye out and I’ve avoided a LOT of shit just being aware of my surroundings, including:

  • being jumped
  • several liquor store robberies
  • being robbed
  • several drive by’s
  • irate bums
  • fights with drunken insecure gentlemen

several opportunities i could have taken to boost my ego if i needed to but really its just foolish to do such things.

the best self defense is to not even put yourself in stupid situations.