When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.[/quote]
you need to learn how internet sarcasm works.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.
you need to learn how internet sarcasm works.[/quote]
Do I? Or do you need to not argue about things you don’t understand?
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
The only thing I suggested in that post is that you’re an idiot…and you can spend the same amount of jail time for using your body as you could for using a gun…and if you shoot somebody and go to jail…its possible that it wasn’t self defense…depending on the situation. You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.
Okaaaaaay…I’ve claimed nothing is universal. You are wrong. I have been convicted of assault that was actually self defense. I got probation. So have a few of my friends who weren’t only defending themselves. Probation. I also know a guy who shot a guy in the knee with a gun in self defense and got 2 years. A lttle higher and I’m sure it would have been more like 20.
The point is, guns kill much easier than hands.[/quote]
Dude, you’re the one consistently talking about ‘real-life’ combat. If you are in a situation where you truly need self-defense…ie- you’re about to be killed, maimed, or raped, why wouldn’t you want a gun? I’m sure you’re all badass matrix-style and shit, but if some hood pulls a gun on you with intent to use, you’re taking serious risks if plan A is to disarm him using hand to hand.
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.
you need to learn how internet sarcasm works.
Do I? Or do you need to not argue about things you don’t understand?[/quote]
Prove that I don’t…what do you know about me? NOTHING…you don’t know what profession I work in,you don’t know what I’m an assistant instructor in…you don’t know how many times I’ve been stabbed,jumped,or shot…now do you?? Now prove to the world that these are things I don’t understand. Besides,you’re making prety easy to prove these are things YOU don’t understand.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
The only thing I suggested in that post is that you’re an idiot…and you can spend the same amount of jail time for using your body as you could for using a gun…and if you shoot somebody and go to jail…its possible that it wasn’t self defense…depending on the situation. You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.
Okaaaaaay…I’ve claimed nothing is universal. You are wrong. I have been convicted of assault that was actually self defense. I got probation. So have a few of my friends who weren’t only defending themselves. Probation. I also know a guy who shot a guy in the knee with a gun in self defense and got 2 years. A lttle higher and I’m sure it would have been more like 20.
The point is, guns kill much easier than hands.
Dude, you’re the one consistently talking about ‘real-life’ combat. If you are in a situation where you truly need self-defense…ie- you’re about to be killed, maimed, or raped, why wouldn’t you want a gun? I’m sure you’re all badass matrix-style and shit, but if some hood pulls a gun on you with intent to use, you’re taking serious risks if plan A is to disarm him using hand to hand.[/quote]
If some hood pulls a gun you’ll have no time to pull your gun, his gun is already on you. This isn’t the old west, you’d seriously need some matrix shit to get one off in time.
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.
you need to learn how internet sarcasm works.
Do I? Or do you need to not argue about things you don’t understand?
Prove that I don’t…what do you know about me? NOTHING…you don’t know what profession I work in,you don’t know what I’m an assistant instructor in…you don’t know how many times I’ve been stabbed,jumped,or shot…now do you?? Now prove to the world that these are things I don’t understand. Besides,you’re making prety easy to prove these are things YOU don’t understand.[/quote]
Okay man, settle down, I haven’t learned keyboard disarms yet. I’m not claiming to know anything about you. I’m suggesting you back up your claims with valid arguments rather than getting all personal about it. Let’s have a debate if we disagree and maybe we can learn something from each other. There ya go buddy, see how that works?
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
The only thing I suggested in that post is that you’re an idiot…and you can spend the same amount of jail time for using your body as you could for using a gun…and if you shoot somebody and go to jail…its possible that it wasn’t self defense…depending on the situation. You act as if everything you’ve said is universal…and its not.
Okaaaaaay…I’ve claimed nothing is universal. You are wrong. I have been convicted of assault that was actually self defense. I got probation. So have a few of my friends who weren’t only defending themselves. Probation. I also know a guy who shot a guy in the knee with a gun in self defense and got 2 years. A lttle higher and I’m sure it would have been more like 20.
The point is, guns kill much easier than hands.
Dude, you’re the one consistently talking about ‘real-life’ combat. If you are in a situation where you truly need self-defense…ie- you’re about to be killed, maimed, or raped, why wouldn’t you want a gun? I’m sure you’re all badass matrix-style and shit, but if some hood pulls a gun on you with intent to use, you’re taking serious risks if plan A is to disarm him using hand to hand.
If some hood pulls a gun you’ll have no time to pull your gun, his gun is already on you. This isn’t the old west, you’d seriously need some matrix shit to get one off in time.[/quote]
Here’s a serious question…If you’re in a situation with a gun ,you have no escape…and it’s pretty much guaranteed that you are going to get shot…what are you going to do? Remember,you said gun disarms are easy…so enlighten us all.
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Bujutsuka wrote:
When did I say it was ruled self defense? Obviously you have no clue how the judicial system works. Resurrection of disscussion.
you need to learn how internet sarcasm works.
Do I? Or do you need to not argue about things you don’t understand?
Prove that I don’t…what do you know about me? NOTHING…you don’t know what profession I work in,you don’t know what I’m an assistant instructor in…you don’t know how many times I’ve been stabbed,jumped,or shot…now do you?? Now prove to the world that these are things I don’t understand. Besides,you’re making prety easy to prove these are things YOU don’t understand.
Okay man, settle down, I haven’t learned keyboard disarms yet. I’m not claiming to know anything about you. I’m suggesting you back up your claims with valid arguments rather than getting all personal about it. Let’s have a debate if we disagree and maybe we can learn something from each other. There ya go buddy, see how that works?[/quote]
Fair enough…I suppose.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
People with real experience in “street fights” will tell you that the last thing you want to be doing in a fight is rolling around on the ground with a guy when he pulls out a knife, or trying to lock a joint while his buddy is grabbing a blunt object.
[/quote]
this is true so so so true.
at the same time most all fights end up with some type of hold e.g. some dude putting you in a headlock or someone slipping and falling down whatever
it usualy ends up on the ground.
I think learning wrestling or BJJ would be good cause you know how to get out of a hold.
like say you swing at dude and he grabs your arm you will know how to break his hand and run like hell.
also boxing is fine
main thing IMO is anything that has some sort of contact with it
boxing,wrestling,judo ect point is you need to know how to hit and not just go through the motions.
you will not have any use for fancy footwork and kicks but you will at times need to know how to place a kick and need the condnditioning to get out of the bad situation.
theres been times where I was working in bars and I had to leg kick someone that was way bigger than i was to get him to comply.
EDIT: Big Boss not to start anything or whatever,I saw your post about the self defense guy that was still convicted.
I agree with you on tha tpost but I do know that here in arizona there is no self defense law or clause or whatever you call it.
I used to do freelance bouncing back when i was about 18-22 and there was very few times I had to fight back most of it was simple take the guy down and throw him out if its too bad or hold him untill the cops come.
however one night after me mouthing off to some guy tha twas being overly rude to a few of the employees I told him to either calm down or he can leave.
he did calm down untill I was at the door watching as everyone was leaving later tha tnight and hepulled a knife on me and cut my arm as he was walking by me.
wasnt bad but it made me mad where I went to grab his arm as he went to slice me again and I ended up slipping,falling and breaking his arm because I wasnt going to let go of dudes knife.
I ended up being put on probation and sent to anger managment.
there explanation was thta they placed me on probation for assualt to have a paqper trail and to show a pattern.
if after a few years I didnt slip up again then the charges would be dropped toatally.
if it did happen again they had prior history of violence to make something stick.
so even though there story is kind of like they were asking for it,its not toatally unlikley that a person is defending themselves and still be in trouble
[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Here’s a serious question…If you’re in a situation with a gun ,you have no escape…and it’s pretty much guaranteed that you are going to get shot…what are you going to do? Remember,you said gun disarms are easy…so enlighten us all.[/quote]
Can you be a little more specific? How close is the guy? Is he behind me, in front of me? Is he hostile or calm? Do you actually want me to explain the technique?
And just to be clear, if someone has a weapon, especially a gun or knife, compliance is the only way to go. Disarms are to be saved for when you have reason to believe you’re going to be killed or seriously injured regardless of cooperation.
I am not sure I trust anything Bujutsuka has said, he has pretty much derailed this entire thread and has also suggested that gun disarms are easy and that we should all carry knives in case we get in a fight.
This mentality is dangerous and down right stupid. Self protection which is what this thread started about is NOT knifing someone.
[quote]HunterKiller wrote:
I am not sure I trust anything Bujutsuka has said, he has pretty much derailed this entire thread and has also suggested that gun disarms are easy and that we should all carry knives in case we get in a fight.
This mentality is dangerous and down right stupid. Self protection which is what this thread started about is NOT knifing someone. [/quote]
I agree with this 10000%
if by chance someone puts a gun in your face the only real thing you can do is comply
most times they want money or a car or whatever
when you try being a hero and knife someone is when you get killed.after all this is not the movies and you dont attempt to disarmed a desperate person that is armed
but back on track basic self defense is just that basic
any style of self defense is great and better than nothing.
better ones that transfer to real world situations have been stated more than once in this thread
Oh my. This thread has already devolved into the “How can I disarm 27 ninjas with machine guns” scenario. That took two pages.
Congrats gents.
Well, here’s my take- fuck most of you, you’ve got no goddamn idea what you’re saying. As always happens when this comes up, every one talks out of their asses, especially the cats who go into a ring for sport and think it translates to the street. IT DOES NOT.
Any style is good, but not for every situation. If you’re a distance boxer, you’ll have a tough time with a grappler in a crowded bar. If you’re BJJ guy, you’ll have a tough time (read, deadly) with a thug with a knife who just got out of county. If you’re a brawler, you’re going to have a hard time with Aikidoist who leads your ass into a wall as soon as you don’t pull your punch back quick enough.
For the dipshit that said “stay away from anything with a string of Chinese/Japanese names”, well, you’re fuckin wrong, too. I’m not here to push my style of fighting- it’s got it’s strong points and weak points like every other style. You have to cover that spot with all kinds of techniques that you learn formally and informally- I first learned the figure 4 lock from an army buddy who was in Afghanistan. If you are truly interested in this, you will seek people out and learn what you can from them.
And if you think katas are useless, well, then I guess you truly have no conception of the benefit of repeating the same moves over and over so they become muscle memory (hmmm… shadowboxing anyone? Must be useless). Most people don’t know that most arts, hell, nearly all of them, have katas- even Pankration.
Some of the same moves used in Krav Maga are used in my system of Gojuryu- but it’s got an Okinawan name, so it MUST be useless, huh?
My sensei generally teaches that if you’ve got to do more than four moves to get the fuck out of that situation, than you’re doing something wrong. This is the basis for most SELF DEFENSE tactics- hit hard, do damage, and book it. This ain’t the motherfucking octagon, and friends and weapons and cops can and will get involved, so don’t sit around trying to pin someone.
Any style is better than nothing. However, fighting is so goddamned random that nothing will gaurantee your safety. I’ve been hit with all kinds of shit, from knees to bottles to sucker punches and headbutts and elbows. I’ve seen guys hit with cue balls in socks, chased with tiki torches, and beaten with all kinds of crap that I’m too tired to list now. The moral of the story is that there are no rules, and what works in the ring can get you killed in the street.
It amazes me how few people take into account weapons when they talk like this…everyone lives in some John Wayne fucking world where two guys square off mano y mano and duke it out.
No my man, this shit is ugly. Hell, a friend of mine beat someone with a damn cement ashtray at a DMV once. People will do whatever they can to save their asses.
If you want to learn a fighting style, then find the best, most reputable teacher you can and learn from him. Learn the moves on the floor, and then do your research into all the other aspects. People give TKD a whole mess of shit- but if you get caught in an empty parking lot with a good TKD fighter, you’re going to be picking your teeth up off the cement. Boxing is good, but it’s incomplete because it doesn’t teach you how to tuck your chin when someone gets you in a choke hold, and will never teach you something so simple as a crossface to get out of a headlock.
And I’m just using that as an example that the best one is going to be a mix of hard and soft style, where you can parry attacks, strike back, do joint manipulations, etc. Hence why I like things like Gojuryu, Kali, Krav Maga, etc, and don’t like straight striking or grappling arts for self defense. But that’s just my opinion.
Either way, there are no shitty arts, just shitty fighters.
And for the guy that recommended nononsenseselfdefense.com, hats off. Marc MacYoung’s info has saved my ass many times, and I am ever impressed with the things he says.
/end rant.
[quote]nichaaron wrote:
out if its too bad or hold him untill the cops come.
however one night after me mouthing off to some guy tha twas being overly rude to a few of the employees I told him to either calm down or he can leave.
he did calm down untill I was at the door watching as everyone was leaving later tha tnight and hepulled a knife on me and cut my arm as he was walking by me.
wasnt bad but it made me mad where I went to grab his arm as he went to slice me again and I ended up slipping,falling and breaking his arm because I wasnt going to let go of dudes knife.
I ended up being put on probation and sent to anger managment.
there explanation was thta they placed me on probation for assualt to have a paqper trail and to show a pattern.
if after a few years I didnt slip up again then the charges would be dropped toatally.
if it did happen again they had prior history of violence to make something stick.
[/quote]
This is perhaps the best example of the shit that goes on in a fight,and why AWARENESS will be your greatest ally in keeping yourself safe.
Thanks for posting that.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
nichaaron wrote:
out if its too bad or hold him untill the cops come.
however one night after me mouthing off to some guy tha twas being overly rude to a few of the employees I told him to either calm down or he can leave.
he did calm down untill I was at the door watching as everyone was leaving later tha tnight and hepulled a knife on me and cut my arm as he was walking by me.
wasnt bad but it made me mad where I went to grab his arm as he went to slice me again and I ended up slipping,falling and breaking his arm because I wasnt going to let go of dudes knife.
I ended up being put on probation and sent to anger managment.
there explanation was thta they placed me on probation for assualt to have a paqper trail and to show a pattern.
if after a few years I didnt slip up again then the charges would be dropped toatally.
if it did happen again they had prior history of violence to make something stick.
This is perhaps the best example of the shit that goes on in a fight,and why AWARENESS will be your greatest ally in keeping yourself safe.
Thanks for posting that.[/quote]
I just re read my post and realised that this is another post of mine that looks like a half blind duck typed it lol
sorry guys
and I stated what I did because I have 20+ years in tang soo do
and growing up on the west side of shitville being jumped alot for being the only white kid for 30 miles
self defense is all about reacting to get the hell out of the situation not trying to disable someone
also I just realised how often this is asked on this board and it is kind of redundant isnt it?
[quote]nichaaron wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
nichaaron wrote:
out if its too bad or hold him untill the cops come.
however one night after me mouthing off to some guy tha twas being overly rude to a few of the employees I told him to either calm down or he can leave.
he did calm down untill I was at the door watching as everyone was leaving later tha tnight and hepulled a knife on me and cut my arm as he was walking by me.
wasnt bad but it made me mad where I went to grab his arm as he went to slice me again and I ended up slipping,falling and breaking his arm because I wasnt going to let go of dudes knife.
I ended up being put on probation and sent to anger managment.
there explanation was thta they placed me on probation for assualt to have a paqper trail and to show a pattern.
if after a few years I didnt slip up again then the charges would be dropped toatally.
if it did happen again they had prior history of violence to make something stick.
This is perhaps the best example of the shit that goes on in a fight,and why AWARENESS will be your greatest ally in keeping yourself safe.
Thanks for posting that.
I just re read my post and realised that this is another post of mine that looks like a half blind duck typed it lol
sorry guys
[/quote]
LOL. Your point came across fine friend.
[quote]HunterKiller wrote:
I am not sure I trust anything Bujutsuka has said, he has pretty much derailed this entire thread and has also suggested that gun disarms are easy and that we should all carry knives in case we get in a fight.
This mentality is dangerous and down right stupid. Self protection which is what this thread started about is NOT knifing someone. [/quote]
Self defense is knifing someone if you have to to survive. I made it clear that compliance is the way to go in a self defense situation involving weapons. If compliance doesn’t work, disarms are much faster and less detectable than pulling out your own weapon. If someone is choking you to death on the ground and you can’t get out, that’s a good time for the pocket knife clipped on your pocket.
I don’t know what kind of world most of you guys live in, but it seems to me it’s a world in the suburbs with your rich parents. As FightinIrish said, this isn’t a John Wayne movie I’m talking about. If you get attacked you must be prepared and mentally conditioned to do what it takes to survive however brutal that may be. Sensei Oberloh always says “Martial Arts are about defeating multiple attackers.”
This is because that’s often what happens if you start beating the first attacker. You can’t fight more than one guy on the ground, but you should know a bit about fighting there of course. Sport fighters are better off staying in their cozy little rings where people aren’t allowed to bite, crush your throat, eye gouge, stomp on your head long after you go out, etc, etc.
[quote]Bujutsuka wrote:
Sensei Oberloh always says “Martial Arts are about defeating multiple attackers.”
[/quote]
I may be a naive sport fighter, but my experiences from having to fight one attacker has lead me to not be delusion enough to think me or anyone could defeat multiple attackers. In fact, the hundreds of hours I have spent on the mats makes me think martial arts should be about surviving and escaping multiple attackers.
Anyone who thinks they can defeat multiple skilled attackers has probably never fought ONE fully resisting attacker.
I get the sense that people who train for fighting end up getting in fights much more then someone who dos not which is stupid. I don’t understand why you would learn to fight in hopes of fighting. I’ve been able to diffuse a lot of potential fights just by being calm and not instigating something that would get me in trouble or hurt.
Really just do a fighting style you have FUN in, never hope to get into a fight but just some basic skills and the fact most fighting arts will get you in amazing shape will put you in a better situation to be alright then the average guy. Your never going to be able to protect yourself against EVERYTHING so just don’t worry about it.