Going for 250+ Pounds

Nutrition
101

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:

[quote]bking wrote:
^Thanks man you’re looking great! are you thinking about doing any competitions?
As far as calories go idk what ill need. I made out a 3000, 3500, 4000, and 4500 calorie meal plan. If i gain at a rate of a pound a week ill keep at it but im not sure how ill respond to this diet.
I hope i don’t need 5000 calories a day bc beef gets expensive after a while lol.[/quote]

Thanks. Yah, I have one planned for next year.

Well keep in mind, 5500 calories has me gaining weight pretty fast so would you gain a lot of weight on that many cals? Yes, but it would be overkill and you would put on lots of fat. A pound a week is still fast as hell so don’t get too worried about that aspect of it. I think 3500-4 will be plenty to keep you gaining, but keep us updated on how it goes.

This may not make a whole lot of sense right now but after a certain point, the more fat you put on the more difficult it will be to add muscle tissue without a lot of fat gain. Once your insulin sensitivity goes to shit, it almost always gets worse the higher the bf %, you start to get in a tough spot.[/quote]

x2

102

The anabolic diet is pretty “outdated” now. The principles are sound, which is why the “newest” technique is carb cycling. I’ll let you read up about it but here’s a brief outline:

For Bulking:
2-4 high carb days per week (not taken in a row, space them out)

For cutting:
1-2 high carb days per week

High carbs = 2-3g/lb bodyweight
Moderate carbs = 1.5g/lb bodyweight
Low carbs = 0.5g//lb bodyweight

Training days will either be high carb, or moderate, depending on amount of high carb days you can handle - usually 1-4, also depending on whether you are gaining or bulking. Rest days or cardio days will be low carbs.

The difference between gaining and losing (appart from calorie intake) is that on gaining phases you have more high carb days (to support anabolism…carbs are good for this), and on cutting phases you have less. The in-between days are just “filled in” with moderate/low carbs depending on whether they are training days or rest/cardio days (also depending on individual responses/metabolism).

The reason why carb cycling is better than the AD is because you can give yourself more carbs spread out compared to the AD. Carb cycling isn’t extreme - doesn’t depend on ketosis (which has been scientifically proven to not cause more fat loss anyway). It also makes better use of insulin sensitivity - “carb ups” are only done one day in a row (unlike the AD where you carb load for two days in a row usually).

103

^Hey thanks!!! Mighty Stu recommended something similar as well. I haven’t done this before but I like the idea and what kind of results have you got from doing this rather than just the standard diet?
Im deloading now for a couple weeks so i might implement this after the 2 weeks r up.
I train 6 days a week… 3 days r heavy and 3 days r light. Im also looking to do a lil body recomp as well.

Im already not liking the AD that much because of all the glycogen and water loss. I went from 190 to 185 the first week!! I lost a lil fat but im not liking the flat muscles :wink:

Maybe something like this

MON(heavy day)-High
Tues(Light day)-Low
Wed (heavy day)-Mod
Thur(light day)-low
Fri(heavy day)-high
Sat (light day)- low
Sun (off day)- low
I can just adjust the carbs down a lil since im recomping.
Hopefully i can figure something out as far as diet is concerned to allow me to reach my goals faster and thanks

104

I agree with Its_just_me. Not that a “keto” diet can’t be used/effective (i.e. GSD by Berardi). Just be consistent

105

[quote]pumped340 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Skynett is also right in that carbs are protein sparing, but I think it’s funny when people say that about a certain diet. Pretty much all macronutrients are protein sparing. Protein, carbs, fat, ketones…[/quote]

What’s funny about it? In protein sparing more of your protein is used for muscle building instead of being used for energy requirements. Since you have sufficient carbohydrates that are easily broken down into monomers, most of your protein intake goes to muscle building (and supporting other metabolic processes) - so, if you’re saying that protein spares protein - um I guess, though I would think that’s rather inefficient.

You don’t really want gluconeogenesis - If you are not consuming enough carbohydrates, your body looks for other sources of energy, like muscle proteins. Proteins, however, are not the most efficient sources of energy for the body, because they have to be converted to sugar by a more involved metabolic pathway.

Also, you can really tell the difference between 15 and 16 % bodyfat just by looking at the guy’s picture?
[/quote]

and not funny like “haha”, maybe ironic is a better word. I’m not saying you’re wrong obviously, I’m just saying that saying higher carbs are protein sparing as a reason to keep higher carbs in the diet doesn’t make a ton of sense since higher fat (like the AD has) is also protein sparing. Not that I don’t agree he should have more carbs. He’ll see what works after awhile hopefully.

And 16% was being generous. Doesn’t really matter though. [/quote]

Yea im pretty much just trying to find out what works the best for ME. Im not really seeing much of a difference so far but ive only been on it for a few days. How long did you stay on the AD for and how did you react to it specifically.
Idk what my exact bf% is i just use the cheap caliper i got to see whether it is going up or down which is what matters to me anyway. I just got to keep moving forward every month and eventually ill have the body of my dreams. This is the main reason why i want to improve my diet so ill continue to make good progress.

106

^^ Im actually very consistent as far as diet is concerned and didn’t mess up once the past three months. Im about to just throw all this diet crap out the window and just go back to basics which worked so well for me already which was carbs in moderation(mostly consisted of long grain brown rice) and healthy fats( nuts) and high protein.

I just got to make a decision and stick with because as soon as my deload is over im not going to switch diets midway through my weight training cycle.

107

[quote]bking wrote:

Yea im pretty much just trying to find out what works the best for ME. Im not really seeing much of a difference so far but ive only been on it for a few days. How long did you stay on the AD for and how did you react to it specifically.
Idk what my exact bf% is i just use the cheap caliper i got to see whether it is going up or down which is what matters to me anyway. I just got to keep moving forward every month and eventually ill have the body of my dreams. This is the main reason why i want to improve my diet so ill continue to make good progress.
[/quote]

I was on it for about 4-5 months. I gained some muscle but gained fat too quickly. With higher carbs I still gained more fat than I would want (like always) but a little less so it seemed than on the AD and even if they were equal I’d rather have the carbs :slight_smile:

108

^Haha yea carbs r yummy. I read a lot about what CT had to say about the AD and i changed it arnd some so I wouldn’t gain the fat. Ill probly start with one carb up meal a week and see how i respond and if i respond well ill throw in some more carbs. Carb selection is always going to be clean regardless though.

109

Yea by the way I never did the “weekend carb up” with whatever I wanted thing. From the beginning it was controlled and clean, but I still gained a lot of fat. I feel it was what I was having during the week that really caused it (i.e such high fat intake).

Oh and you might want to ditch the calipers. Not that they can’t be accurate, but I just found that they fucked with me mentally.

110

^CT himself said about 25% of the population will do better a lot better on a high carb diet than a low carb diet so Id have to say you are part of that 25%. I might be too but hopefully it will work for me.

As far as the calipers go, one would have to be well trained and have many years of experience with them in order to be good with them and I have none of those qualifications LOL. Heck ive only been training a lil over 2 years and only been using them for a short while.

But yea u r right. I should be going by the mirror and the mirror never lies.

111

mirrors lie too lol. Unless you have a photographic memory of what you used to look like it will still probably screw with you. Pictures in the same place at the same time with the same lighting would be your best bet.

112

LOL yea true true

113

I think more often then not its just a case of the people who say they cant handle carbs are having too much calories altogether or are having too much carbs AND fat. I definitely wouldn’t limit yourself with a 25% of the population label that your not sure of. I didn’t mean this as a negative post btw.

114

You’re welcome bking :slight_smile:

Nothing needs to be fancy at this stage (as you seem to have concluded), no need to go to extremes.

Main point is to give your body what it needs at the right times - around high activities like workouts, more carbs are taken (carb cycling). And not too many high carbs are taken throughout the week. Cycling carbs this way makes sure that adequate energy/anabolism is provided without it “spilling over” into fat production.

Carb cycling has been around for a while (although not as specific as it is now). People simply would make sure they’re taking in an extra 500 cals or so on workout days (this would be in the form of the post workout shake which is predominantly carbs)…and on non workout days, there would obviously be no post workout shake/meal.

There’s nothing magical about carb cycling, it’s actually pretty natural. Your body usually favours filling and quick energy foods (e.g. rice, potatoes, oats) whenever vigorous exercise has been undertaken. And naturally, your metabolism is lower on low carb days (rest days).

A normal but smart way of eating is as follows (very standard but effective):

Adequate protein (e.g. 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight) is taken every day and kept the same, and fat/carbs are tweaked whenever increases/decreases in calories are needed. The rule of thumb is: When carbs are high, fat is low and vice versa. So you would have predominantly protein/carb meals and protein/fat meals. Carbs are tapered down on the last half of the day (unless around a late workout) - so you would have carb/protein meals early, and fat/protein meals late. Calorie intake is also tapered down towards the end of the day (highest intake early on, and lowest later).

If I was you, I’d just make sure I’m getting in somewhere around a moderate level of each macro nutrient (and not lose heart over something that seems complicated just now). An easy way of quickly working this out is to keep protein and carbs at roughly the same level (in grams/calories) or up to twice as much carbs as protein. Keep fat intake moderate/low (relative to carbs). If not gaining (e.g. not gained even a pound in 4 weeks), simply add calories to your meals (an extra potato, an extra scoop of peanut butter or whatever).

115

[quote]bking wrote:
what kind of results have you got from doing this rather than just the standard diet?
[/quote]

I wouldn’t say that the results have been amazing, but rather, “safe”. In other words, do the wrong things and they’ll show! :wink:

I have pretty much followed a similar approach to carb cycling and carb combining (not mixing high fat with high carbs) for most of my lifting time. The only time I haven’t is when doing very low carbs/ketogenic (bad idea for bulking and definitely not necessary for most unless near competition).

Also, eating high carbs is great for bulking, but after a certain amount of time/weeks, it screws up your insulin response and makes your gains in muscle:fat ratio bad. Cycling carbs gets around this by making some days moderate/low. So it’s trying to get a balance of “both worlds”.

It doesn’t take me to say that very high carbs (e.g. 3g+/lb bodyweight) every day will eventually make you a lot fatter than you could get away with - most trainees know this and have experienced it (e.g. first proper bulk). But spiking your insulin in this way is very anabolic. Some people can get away with this more often than others.

Eating high carbs late at night is another pretty obvious “no no” (something I learned by experience).

[quote]
Im deloading now for a couple weeks so i might implement this after the 2 weeks r up.
I train 6 days a week… 3 days r heavy and 3 days r light. Im also looking to do a lil body recomp as well.

Im already not liking the AD that much because of all the glycogen and water loss. I went from 190 to 185 the first week!! I lost a lil fat but im not liking the flat muscles :wink:

Maybe something like this

MON(heavy day)-High
Tues(Light day)-Low
Wed (heavy day)-Mod
Thur(light day)-low
Fri(heavy day)-high
Sat (light day)- low
Sun (off day)- low
I can just adjust the carbs down a lil since im recomping.
Hopefully i can figure something out as far as diet is concerned to allow me to reach my goals faster and thanks[/quote]

I wouldn’t get too caught up in the whole light/heavy thing (I’m assuming you’re talking about effort and not rep range?). Just look up the “bodybuilding bible” thread (first one) and follow the basic plan for months and months and months :wink:

116

^Thanks man sure helps!!!
As far a light versus heavy im more talking about what type of exercises im doing so squats for example would require a higher carb intake than curls… thats what i mean.

I got away from the anabolic diet and started thinking about doing two 200 gram carb ups through out the week just avoid spill over. Ill pust these carb ups after workout rather than before so i wont be drowsy during the workout. Even a full day carb on the AD would be overboard in my opinion.

Carb sources are mostly going to consist of long grain brown rice.

The plan i got this from was Natural Hormonal Enhancement for bodybuilders. I can honestly say i feel that i respond to a higher fat diet much better as far as energy and focus is concerned.

Hopefully i can get the muscle gain i want by this time next year (around 25 muscle). I should be big enough to be a good bb competitor by then

117

[quote]bking wrote:
^Thanks man sure helps!!!
As far a light versus heavy im more talking about what type of exercises im doing so squats for example would require a higher carb intake than curls… thats what i mean.

[/quote]

Ah I see, that’s fine.

Although you’re getting carb ups throughout the week, make sure you eat enough carbs around workout periods (even if it’s only 50-100g), otherwise you could get faint etc. You don’t need to worry about “spill over” with carbs as low as under 300g/day.

118

Yea im still tampering with the diet. Honestly i worked out some during my deload period (I have 10 more days until i start ramping up the weights again) and now that im becoming more fat adapted, I actually feel drowsy if I have carbs before or during my workout so im going to put them after the workout so it wont hurt my performance during the workout. I changed my two carb ups meals per week from 200 carbs to 300 carbs per meal and i moved my daily allowance of carbs to after my workout rather than before on my low carb days.

So far everything is going good. Im just eating at maintenance for now and im maintaing my weight while slowly losing bodyfat and it shows up on the calipers, how my paints fit, mirror, etc.

I have a feeling im going to start growing like a weed once i start uping the weight and calories :slight_smile:

Ill be working my but off for the rest of this year to reach that goal of 5`8 215 pounds with relatively the same bf% (im 183 now glycogen depleted with a 11 mm skin fold). I can get it though. In my avatar for reference I was 180 with a 15mm skin fold not glycogen depleted.

119

I would use a workout log but ill just use this thread as a progress thread.
Anyway ive gained like 3 pounds of muscle a lost about 6 pounds of fat. Decided to do a recomp because most of the weight I gained happened to be fat when I attempted the bulk so yea… here’s a pic
well for some reason it didnt show so ill try again.

120

here