God Created...................

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Well, I have to admit, I AM pissed.

First, there is some guy who regularly posts a collection of total Bullshit, with the intention of mocking the achievments of science in the name of (a western) god.
He repeatedly posts crap on an internet forum, sitting behind his computer, enjoying technological wonders which weren’t possible if his archaic beliefs would be custom.

And then he asks, in a total innocent tone: “Why are you so angry?”

If you REALLY would have asked in a polite fashion, like “guys, I’m a devout christ and have some troubles with this evolution thing, here’s what I think, these are my arguments…” it would be an different story, but your rant lacks logic, reason and substantiated facts.

Don’t try to fool us around. If you’d be in charge, there would be opression and violence, like in a mullah state.

It’s always the same old dilemma:
If you truly believe the miserable tome, you have to swallow total nonsense as you are forced to shut your eyes, switch off your brain and throw reason out of the window. (Virgin birth my ass!)
If you admit that some stories might be meant allegorically, were written by humans without god’s help and some may be even wrong, you eventually come to the point where the whole construction falls apart as doubt haunts your mind. No salvation, no eternal life.

So swallow your shit in silence and dream of tooth fairies,
or open your eyes and shut yer yap.
[/quote]

So you are angry – score one for Emu!

Seriously, you need to take some anger managment classes or something. It just seems that you want to believe evolution so much and not to believe in God that you sit behind your computer and rant and rave and insult Christians as “mindless.”

Who are you to make that judgement? Has your brain “evolved” so that you can do analysis from thousands of miles away on people that you don’t even know? It does appear that your hatred of Christianity causes you to be quite insulting, demeaning, and just, well, downright nasty!

Now, as far as “turning off your brain and believing in tooth faries,” we could easily and moreso say that about you…

…“far far away and long long ago, it rained on the rocks and all of a sudden, little swimming things fell into the water and grew legs and got out of the water and over millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became a monkey and after millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became my daddy…”

Don’t forget to leave your teeth under the pillow tonight. Perhaps in a million years from now, the fairy will give you something – like charm!

42

[quote]MODOK wrote:

Well, I was asking the evolutionists on this site their opinion, but I guess just providing links is so much easier. That still doesn’t adress the issue of diversity and complexity. Why were so many different species just thrust on to the scene in such a tiny window? It does take eons to go from simple to complex life, right? Well, how did they suddenly all appear at once, in the same strata, side-by-side, vertabrate or invertebrate.

[/quote]

I APPEARS at if this has happened, but it must not have been like this at all.

As I posted, maybe a change in environmental conditions suddenly favored larger bodys which are more likely to fossilize or geological conditions favored fossilization at that time.

You have to remember that fossiles of that period are extremely rare, allmost all the evidence we have is from a rock found by Walcott in British Columbia.

To think that all these creatures suddenly appeared is a bold step, given that only 1 in 10000-130000 species leaves fossiles. If you take all Americans today, all future archeologists will have to work with are 50 bones.

43

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:

…“far far away and long long ago, it rained on the rocks and all of a sudden, little swimming things fell into the water and grew legs and got out of the water and over millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became a monkey and after millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became my daddy…”

Don’t forget to leave your teeth under the pillow tonight. Perhaps in a million years from now, the fairy will give you something – like charm!
[/quote]

Again, you show how undereducated you are.
It’s not about how ridiculous it sounds.
It’s about proof and scientific worth.
It you believe in the tooth fairy - you’re welcome to prove it. If you approach us in a sensible way, we’ll even listen and -who knows- might encourage you to take some nocturnal pictures of this midnight pixie to contribute them to the “Supernatural Vixen Thread”.

However, the evolution theory stands firm. You can explain a lot of phenomena with it, work with it.
That’s not the case with your bible-evolution. You can explain shit with it. It doesn’t fit in with other theories and only causes confusion and oppression.

Your middle age views are exactly the same as the views of those who had to swallow the “ridiculous” fact that the world is round.

44

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
However, the evolution theory stands firm. You can explain a lot of phenomena with it, work with it.
That’s not the case with your bible-evolution. You can explain shit with it. It doesn’t fit in with other theories and only causes confusion and oppression.

Your middle age views are exactly the same as the views of those who had to swallow the “ridiculous” fact that the world is round.[/quote]

First off, evolution stands firm because the secular world has no other explanation that doesn’t include God in it. Yes, if you are looking to find a way around God, it’s all you’ve got - and it’s still terrible. You guys love to throw the “science” word around. Science this, science that, you don’t have a grasp of science, your ignorant to science. Shouldn’t you be able to test and analyze in a lab, the same thing that you are trying to prove happened over billions of years? You can’t! How is that true science?

Second, the world is round gets thrown around a lot to. The reason why your logic makes no sense is because we CAN observe that the earth is round by flying a space shuttle into space, using satellites, etc. In the middle ages, men didn’t have space shuttles and satellites. Do you have a time machine to go back millions of years ago to observe what you are claiming?

Also, why do you demand us to come to you in a respectful manner when you have done nothing but insult us with rude, vulgar words? Have I or any of the other Christians on here told you to “fuck off” or “you are so fucking stupid”? No, we haven’t even come close to saying anything like that to you. Maybe you should practice what YOU preach before demanding that other people do.

45

[quote]FlyingEmuOfDoom wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
However, the evolution theory stands firm. You can explain a lot of phenomena with it, work with it.
That’s not the case with your bible-evolution. You can explain shit with it. It doesn’t fit in with other theories and only causes confusion and oppression.

Your middle age views are exactly the same as the views of those who had to swallow the “ridiculous” fact that the world is round.

First off, evolution stands firm because the secular world has no other explanation that doesn’t include God in it. Yes, if you are looking to find a way around God, it’s all you’ve got - and it’s still terrible. You guys love to throw the “science” word around. Science this, science that, you don’t have a grasp of science, your ignorant to science. Shouldn’t you be able to test and analyze in a lab, the same thing that you are trying to prove happened over billions of years? You can’t! How is that true science?

Second, the world is round gets thrown around a lot to. The reason why your logic makes no sense is because we CAN observe that the earth is round by flying a space shuttle into space, using satellites, etc. In the middle ages, men didn’t have space shuttles and satellites. Do you have a time machine to go back millions of years ago to observe what you are claiming?

Also, why do you demand us to come to you in a respectful manner when you have done nothing but insult us with rude, vulgar words? Have I or any of the other Christians on here told you to “fuck off” or “you are so fucking stupid”? No, we haven’t even come close to saying anything like that to you. Maybe you should practice what YOU preach before demanding that other people do.

[/quote]

I’ll summarise:

Religious types : Daydreaming twaddle hoppers

Atheist : Saviours of the world.

46

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:

…“far far away and long long ago, it rained on the rocks and all of a sudden, little swimming things fell into the water and grew legs and got out of the water and over millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became a monkey and after millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of years became my daddy…”

Don’t forget to leave your teeth under the pillow tonight. Perhaps in a million years from now, the fairy will give you something – like charm!

Again, you show how undereducated you are.
It’s not about how ridiculous it sounds.
It’s about proof and scientific worth.
It you believe in the tooth fairy - you’re welcome to prove it. If you approach us in a sensible way, we’ll even listen and -who knows- might encourage you to take some nocturnal pictures of this midnight pixie to contribute them to the “Supernatural Vixen Thread”.

However, the evolution theory stands firm. You can explain a lot of phenomena with it, work with it.
That’s not the case with your bible-evolution. You can explain shit with it. It doesn’t fit in with other theories and only causes confusion and oppression.

Your middle age views are exactly the same as the views of those who had to swallow the “ridiculous” fact that the world is round.[/quote]

I second that. Until there is proof that I can accept from the bible I do not believe in that scripture. Its a very nice story with exceptional morals that should be the basis of everyone’s ideals but there’s a lot of fairy stories mixed in there. Stuff like Noah’s Ark, God creating everything in 6 days (HOW THE HELL DO THEY KNOW THIS???). And its mixed with some history like the foundation of the church, Jesus Christ… etc. Its a nice book but thats about it.

And until some actual research comes into play to explain the book instead of (the preacher said God did it so I “believe” exactly what he says)

Remember: What would Jesus do?
Answer: Think for himself.

You like the bible? That’s your thing. But don’t bring religion to a discussion until you have some simple proof and just because the bible says so doesn’t mean its proof.

If you would like to explain that the bible proves this is true based on this evidence collected: (insert decent explainable evidence here), then I will put the best effort I can to listen and accept it with an open mind.

47

[quote]miniross wrote:

I’ll summarise:

Religious types : Daydreaming twaddle hoppers

Atheist : Saviours of the world.

[/quote]

I wouldn’t go as far a saviours. We’re just normal people.

48

“Up on the very highest mountains, even in the Alps range, they have found marine fossils. Now how did those marine fossils get there? Shellfish, starfish, and all the rest of them. Well, we know how they got there. There was a universal flood at one time which left seashells on the mountains. Now this also explains those layers of earth also.”

I thought it was because a LONG time ago when these creatures died in a mass extinction they rested on the bottom of the seabed. As the continental plates shifted so did the fossilized animals. When the plates finally got scrunched together into mountains. PRESTO!

Hmmm?

49

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
miniross wrote:

I’ll summarise:

Religious types : Daydreaming twaddle hoppers

Atheist : Saviours of the world.

I wouldn’t go as far a saviours. We’re just normal people.[/quote]

Ok.

But surely we are supermen, capable of defying bullshit at every corner, capable of leaping tall piles of bibles and koran etc?

50

Again, you show how middle-aged your beliefs are. We do not know that the world is round because of satellites. And for science, a visual proof is unnecessary. You, on the other hand, need to observe things. Everything you cannot grasp eludes you and so, perhaps out of ignorance, perhaps out of fear, you assume it can only be god’s business.

I can only repeat myself: Your ways of thinking have not been updated a 1000 years.

You are truly igorant, even a bit dangerous, because you aggressively promote your dim-witted views.

51

[quote]MODOK wrote:
I would like to know how the evolutionists account for the “Cambrian Explosion”, if anyone would like to chime in.[/quote]

it most likely has something to do with the idea that the earth was thawing out and no longer was a giant sheet of ice and glaciers. I’ll have a better idea once the earth goes through another ice age.

But still, fossils are pretty rare, otherwise why don’t we have thousands of fossils of dinosaurs (you know, cos the earth is only 6000 years old, that’s really not that long ago)?

52

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Again, you show how middle-aged your beliefs are. We do not know that the world is round because of satellites. And for science, a visual proof is unnecessary. You, on the other hand, need to observe things. Everything you cannot grasp eludes you and so, perhaps out of ignorance, perhaps out of fear, you assume it can only be god’s business.

I can only repeat myself: Your ways of thinking have not been updated a 1000 years.

You are truly igorant, even a bit dangerous, because you aggressively promote your dim-witted views. [/quote]

I am truly igorant? Do you realize how you sound?

You telling me that I am dangerous is dangerous in itself because you want to choose what people can and cannot say. I have NOT hurt anyone or FORCED anybody to listen to me. Over here in America, we have the freedom of speech. I can say what I want, when I want and how I want. I think you need to re-evaluate what you consider “dangerous”. Don’t read this thread or better yet this website if you think it’s “dangerous”. Who’s forcing you to?

Give me your top 5 absolute best proofs of macroevolution. Lets hear them.

53

Dunno about ignorance, but i suggest some simple google searching.

http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast161/Unit2/measearth.html
200 BC: Eratosthenes of Cyrene got within 2% of the modern value (circumference of the earth) using only the geometry of sun shadows at two locations on the same day.

By about 300AD, the idea of a Flat Earth was revived:
Early Christian rejection of the “pagan absurdity” of a spherical earth.
This view was held sporadically until about 1300 AD.

It seems in my opinion only, that a certain institution had a vested interest in a flat earth, because such a BELIEF fit in with what was written in a certain book - a book actually written a few hundred yrs after the measurements were taken and published. Maybe such an institution has a vested interest in ignorance?
hhhhmmmmmmmmmmm…

54

Has anyone here ever seen the whale skeleton that was found sitting verticly across numerous stratas? If I remember right, it’s fins would have been about 10 million years older than its head. That whale had some awsome balance!

Beautiful portrayal of the flaws in evolution. It is not surprised the athiests are throwing a hissy-fit.

55

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
That’s a good point. I believe the current evolutionary theory holds that the grand canyon was cut over millions of years by the Colorado river. And if that were true (holding to evolutionary theory) you would see the different emerging organic species outlined in the fossil record, starting with single cell organisms moving up to fully formed organisms and all the millions of intermediary species.

Well guess what sport? The fossil record of the Grand Canyon reveals fully formed organisms with no intermediary species down to a certain strata of earth/rock and then nothing, nada, zilch! No organic life what so ever. Damn! No how did that happen?

Let’s see, inorganic material only and then all of a sudden fully formed organisms. Hummmm!

HAHAHAHAHA!

My neighbours are heathens. The woman is blind. How can that happen? Blind people cannot see. So how could they survive, according to evolution, they should have been dead already! Makes you think…

Please, tell us more about your own private universe. Or better, call a brain ambulance.

Everything I stated was true. Don’t blame me if the evolutionary theory doesn’t match up with the evidence.
[/quote]

Don’t waste your time Lorisco. It’s like trying to explain how to drive a car to a one-year-old.

56

Ivan - no I had not; this was all i could find on that particular topic:

claim that a 80 ft-long whale was buried standing on tail has appeared within the creationist literature

and

Had anybody taken the time and trouble to check the facts, they would have found that the story by Russel (1976) took some liberty with the facts and lacked very important information. First, the skeleton was not found in a vertical position, but was lying at an angle 50 to 40 degrees from horizontal. Finally, although at this angle, the whale skeleton lay parallel to the bedding of strata which at one time was the sea floor on which the dead whale fell after its death

57

[quote]haney wrote:
miniross wrote:
haney wrote:
haney wrote:
I am curious what you think of augustine and his apologetics? Would he still be considered an early Church Father? or would he fall in line with what protestant would call a deceived RCC? If so how where we able to form the cannon of the NT correctly with a fallen church?

thoughts Anyone?

Since this is a post about theology why not talk about it?
[/quote]

Maybe I should start by asking has anyone have any knowledge of Augustine’s apologetic of Genesis?

58

ivan and lorisco, i suggest you have a look here:

59

[quote]haney wrote:
haney wrote:
miniross wrote:
haney wrote:
haney wrote:
I am curious what you think of augustine and his apologetics? Would he still be considered an early Church Father? or would he fall in line with what protestant would call a deceived RCC? If so how where we able to form the cannon of the NT correctly with a fallen church?

thoughts Anyone?

Since this is a post about theology why not talk about it?

Maybe I should start by asking has anyone have any knowledge of Augustine’s apologetic of Genesis?

[/quote]

I don’t, but if you can explain it in a manner that uses some real world scientific proofs to back it up then I’m all for listening and debating.

60

[quote]brucevangeorge wrote:
haney wrote:
haney wrote:
miniross wrote:
haney wrote:
haney wrote:
I am curious what you think of augustine and his apologetics? Would he still be considered an early Church Father? or would he fall in line with what protestant would call a deceived RCC? If so how where we able to form the cannon of the NT correctly with a fallen church?

thoughts Anyone?

Since this is a post about theology why not talk about it?

Maybe I should start by asking has anyone have any knowledge of Augustine’s apologetic of Genesis?

I don’t, but if you can explain it in a manner that uses some real world scientific proofs to back it up then I’m all for listening and debating.[/quote]

It is really more of an apolgetic. No science would be used since Augustine lived in 375A.D.

Augustine actuallly said that the days of Genesis weren’t literal 24 hour periods and that many of the descriptions used in Genesis were more metaphorical in describing God, and his interaction with man, and creation. In many ways he lays a foundation for Theistic Evolution (God driven evolution).

Since the OP talks about the falling away from the “protestant movement” I was curious what peoples thoughts would be on this apologetic master and his view of Genesis.

Here is a link.
http://www.facingthechallenge.org/augustine.htm