[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
This thread has convinced me to give them a shot next time I do shoulders. The last time I tried BHN was when I FIRST started messing around with weights quite a few years ago and back then they were bad because of poor posture, bad form, and ego lifting (essentially not knowing what I was doing). My shoulders are much better now. I’ll report back with how it goes.[/quote]
I would say the experiment was a success although I now realize my shoulders need a little more work. My range of motion was somewhat limited seeing as I felt like my shoulder couldn’t externally rotate at the bottom of the movement how its supposed to? If I’m understanding anatomy here… What I’m trying to say is that below parallel, I felt like my shoulder girdle couldn’t open up enough to go down any further.
HOWEVER, I do like this movement. I know it’ll be a good addition once I get better range of motion in my shoulders. I definitely don’t think this exercise is automatically out of the question anymore like I used to. [/quote]
Proceed with caution.
I suspect there’s variance in that region, the glenoid fossa (shoulder socket) and humeral head among different people. This is what the ‘every-one-should-do-btn press’ advocates don’t understand.
Now add training or any other type of physical history which can make external rotation problematic.
If someone who meets one or both of the above conditions does this on a regular basis…well, the results shouldn’t surprise anyone.
I’m convinced there will always be people who can do this without any issues. And there will always be people who should avoid it. Somewhere between the two extremes will be those who can get away with it occasionally but never as a main heavy movement.
This is why they invented dumbbells, right? Max focus on the delts, but you can use whatever wrist and elbow position your joints require. Your head can’t get in the way.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
This thread has convinced me to give them a shot next time I do shoulders. The last time I tried BHN was when I FIRST started messing around with weights quite a few years ago and back then they were bad because of poor posture, bad form, and ego lifting (essentially not knowing what I was doing). My shoulders are much better now. I’ll report back with how it goes.[/quote]
I would say the experiment was a success although I now realize my shoulders need a little more work. My range of motion was somewhat limited seeing as I felt like my shoulder couldn’t externally rotate at the bottom of the movement how its supposed to? If I’m understanding anatomy here… What I’m trying to say is that below parallel, I felt like my shoulder girdle couldn’t open up enough to go down any further.
HOWEVER, I do like this movement. I know it’ll be a good addition once I get better range of motion in my shoulders. I definitely don’t think this exercise is automatically out of the question anymore like I used to. [/quote]
My bottom position is pretty close to parallel. A few degrees under 90. Maybe 85 degree bottom position elbow angle.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
This is why they invented dumbbells, right? Max focus on the delts, but you can use whatever wrist and elbow position your joints require. Your head can’t get in the way.
[/quote]
Well sure but bb ohp and btn also has their place.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
This thread has convinced me to give them a shot next time I do shoulders. The last time I tried BHN was when I FIRST started messing around with weights quite a few years ago and back then they were bad because of poor posture, bad form, and ego lifting (essentially not knowing what I was doing). My shoulders are much better now. I’ll report back with how it goes.[/quote]
I would say the experiment was a success although I now realize my shoulders need a little more work. My range of motion was somewhat limited seeing as I felt like my shoulder couldn’t externally rotate at the bottom of the movement how its supposed to? If I’m understanding anatomy here… What I’m trying to say is that below parallel, I felt like my shoulder girdle couldn’t open up enough to go down any further.
HOWEVER, I do like this movement. I know it’ll be a good addition once I get better range of motion in my shoulders. I definitely don’t think this exercise is automatically out of the question anymore like I used to. [/quote]
My bottom position is pretty close to parallel. A few degrees under 90. Maybe 85 degree bottom position elbow angle.
[/quote]
Yeah I don’t go much lower than that either. Right around bottom of the ear level.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
This is why they invented dumbbells, right? Max focus on the delts, but you can use whatever wrist and elbow position your joints require. Your head can’t get in the way.
[/quote]
I use one-arm variations occasionally, but they just dont’t create the same tension and feel that BTN presses give. Different strokes, different folks I guess.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
This is why they invented dumbbells, right? Max focus on the delts, but you can use whatever wrist and elbow position your joints require. Your head can’t get in the way.
[/quote]
I use one-arm variations occasionally, but they just dont’t create the same tension and feel that BTN presses give. Different strokes, different folks I guess.[/quote]
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
This thread has convinced me to give them a shot next time I do shoulders. The last time I tried BHN was when I FIRST started messing around with weights quite a few years ago and back then they were bad because of poor posture, bad form, and ego lifting (essentially not knowing what I was doing). My shoulders are much better now. I’ll report back with how it goes.[/quote]
I would say the experiment was a success although I now realize my shoulders need a little more work. My range of motion was somewhat limited seeing as I felt like my shoulder couldn’t externally rotate at the bottom of the movement how its supposed to? If I’m understanding anatomy here… What I’m trying to say is that below parallel, I felt like my shoulder girdle couldn’t open up enough to go down any further.
HOWEVER, I do like this movement. I know it’ll be a good addition once I get better range of motion in my shoulders. I definitely don’t think this exercise is automatically out of the question anymore like I used to. [/quote]
I’m glad you liked the movement and think it will be a good addition to your program.
What should I do to open up my shoulder girdle so I have better external rotation at the bottom of BTN press? Again, correct me if I have a bad understanding of the mechanics here. Basically I feel like I would definitely hurt something if I went below parallel with a decent weight on this and did it consistently.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
What should I do to open up my shoulder girdle so I have better external rotation at the bottom of BTN press? Again, correct me if I have a bad understanding of the mechanics here. Basically I feel like I would definitely hurt something if I went below parallel with a decent weight on this and did it consistently.[/quote]
all the usual shit, mate. Stretch internal rotators, strengthen external rotators, strengthen upward rotators etc etc.
Some soft tissue work on your shoulders wouldn’t hurt either. Metaphorically speaking, that is. In literal terms it will hurt an awful lot.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
What should I do to open up my shoulder girdle so I have better external rotation at the bottom of BTN press? Again, correct me if I have a bad understanding of the mechanics here. Basically I feel like I would definitely hurt something if I went below parallel with a decent weight on this and did it consistently.[/quote]
all the usual shit, mate. Stretch internal rotators, strengthen external rotators, strengthen upward rotators etc etc.
Some soft tissue work on your shoulders wouldn’t hurt either. Metaphorically speaking, that is. In literal terms it will hurt an awful lot.[/quote]
Also, give me an idea of how low you are wanting to go in the lower portion of the lift.
[quote]Aopocetx wrote:
What should I do to open up my shoulder girdle so I have better external rotation at the bottom of BTN press? Again, correct me if I have a bad understanding of the mechanics here. Basically I feel like I would definitely hurt something if I went below parallel with a decent weight on this and did it consistently.[/quote]
what has helped my shoulders more than anything are the DC shoulder dislocates. I always do these after my chest and shoulder w/o
I didn’t mean to come in and dis the pbn and your thread. I just meant that with everyone having different shoulder and upper back situations, it’s best not to force the bar down behind your neck. Use the ROM that’s comfortable. Get what you can out of the pbn. Especially how it teaches you to use your upper back to stabilise and support your shoulders.
Then use the dumbbells to help cover what’s holding you back, or what you can’t get out of barbell presses. If you have trouble with getting your chest up, and your shoulders back, while standing up, some seated dumbbell presses, with back support could help. It’s easier to get that “thorasic extension” going seated, with your wrists slightly turned.
Or even to do some Scarecrows or seated cleans to get used to controlling your elbow/forearm position with your back.
Shoulder dislocates are cool. I like to use a band. That way I can stretch through the tightest part of the movement, instead of just cruising through it.
I also do like a band snatch. Anchor the band in front, about chest height, step back, then do like a fast face-pull, muscle snatch kinda move. This one feels a lot like the top of a press behind the neck.
[quote]
I also do like a band snatch. Anchor the band in front, about chest height, step back, then do like a fast face-pull, muscle snatch kinda move. This one feels a lot like the top of a press behind the neck.[/quote]that band snatch sounds interesting. I’m going to try that this week.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
I didn’t mean to come in and dis the pbn and your thread. I just meant that with everyone having different shoulder and upper back situations, it’s best not to force the bar down behind your neck. Use the ROM that’s comfortable. Get what you can out of the pbn. Especially how it teaches you to use your upper back to stabilise and support your shoulders.
[/quote]
This basically answered my question and it’s what I thought.
I’m one of those people who absolutely cannot tolerate behind the neck presses in any capacity. I’ve tried them enough times, and suffered injuries from them enough times, to completely avoid them at this point. Literally every time I’ve tried them, even with light weights, I’ve ended up suffering negative consequences for weeks, if not longer. DEFINITELY not a lift that should be advocated for everyone.
I’ve avoided them for years, due to the bro-science stigma. Read CT’s article linked above several months ago, and started adding them back in. I use them in place of OHP for the BBB 5 x 10. No pain, no issues, until recently. I got away from Juggernaut over the summer, trying out BFB for 8 weeks - if I could, I’d still be doing it I just don’t have the bars and equipment when I’m at work.
Anyway, went back to Juggernaut once I got out here, and shoulders were tighter than they used to be. Already working itself out, it just caused some slight discomfort at the bottom of the BTN press. Definitely need to get back into my shoulder mobility routine prior to pressing movements.
[quote]boatguy wrote:
Anyway, went back to Juggernaut once I got out here, and shoulders were tighter than they used to be. Already working itself out, it just caused some slight discomfort at the bottom of the BTN press. Definitely need to get back into my shoulder mobility routine prior to pressing movements.[/quote]
What are you doing to fix that? Because I have the exact same problem and I have an idea of what to do but it would be nice to hear from someone that’s done it.