God Bless Texas

Nov. 16, 2007, 9:48PM
911 tape traces deadly shootings by Pasadena man

Minutes before he shot and killed two burglary suspects, a Pasadena man ignored repeated orders from a police dispatcher not to go outside with a shotgun.

Police today identified the dead men as 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston.

On a 911 tape released Thursday, a dispatcher is heard asking Joe Horn to stay inside his home until police arrived. But Horn, who had called police about 2 p.m. Wednesday to report that he witnessed two men break into a neighbor’s home, told the dispatcher he planned to “kill” the suspects.

“I’m not going to let them get away with it,” said Horn, who reported being inside his home in the 7400 block of Timberline looking out a window. “I’m gonna shoot. I’m gonna shoot.”

For approximately six minutes, the Pasadena police operator told Horn to remain in his home and repeatedly discouraged the 61-year-old man from taking his gun outside.

“Stay inside the house and don’t go out there. OK?” the operator told Horn in calm tones. " … I know what you’re feeling, but it’s not worth shooting someone over this. OK?"

Charles Lambright, Horn’s attorney, said Thursday that the audio recording suggests Horn was afraid for his own safety.

“Just because he went outside doesn’t mean he went outside with the idea of shooting them,” Lambright said. “All I can see is a concerned homeowner who was scared for his own safety and, if he was some kind of nutcase, I don’t think he would have called 911. His intention was to get police out there.”

Pasadena police said it would be up to a Harris County grand jury to decide if Horn committed a crime. Charges had not been filed Thursday and Horn was not taken into custody.

“Usually, things like this take a little while to be presented to us,” said Assistant District Attorney Lynne Parsons. “We would want the officers to contact witnesses and collect evidence.”

The owners of the home that was burglarized could not be reached for comment. On the audio recording, Horn tells the operator that he did not know them very well. But, he states that he was upset that the men appeared to be burglarizing a home in broad daylight.

‘Not worth killing someone’
Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect their own property to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

Horn is heard on the recording telling the operator that he has a right to protect himself and under a new law that went into effect in September.

The law, passed earlier this year, gives Texans stronger rights to defend themselves with deadly force, but Sen. Jeff Wentworth, a San Antonio Republican, has said he does not think it would apply in this case.

“Property’s not worth killing someone over. OK? Don’t go out the house. Don’t be shooting nobody,” the operator told Horn shortly before he left his home and fired at least two shotgun blasts at the men.

Investigators were taking measurements outside Horn’s home in an upper-middle class Village Grove East subdivision near Fairmont and Center.

Bag of cash recovered
Pasadena Police Capt. A.H. “Bud” Corbett said Horn was cooperative with officers at the scene and later made a statement at the police station.

The white bag one of the dead men had been carrying contained a large amount of cash, apparently taken from the house, Corbett said.

Two windows in the back of the house had been broken, he said. One was a regular window, but the other was glass blocks. It was the breaking glass that alerted Horn, Corbett said.

Police have not found the families of the dead men. One had identification indicating he was from Puerto Rico, the other had documentation indicating he may have been from Puerto Rico, Colombia or the Dominican Republic, Corbett said.

Both men were shot once at a range of less than 15 feet with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Yay for Texan murderers. There should be more of them.

I’m all about protecting one’s own family and property, but… that old crazy son of a bitch wasn’t protecting anybody’s life. He blatantly kept repeating that he intended to go outside and kill the burglars because he was upset with them robbing from his neighbor’s (an abandoned) house. That’s not being protective, that’s plain murder. The only thing that separates that crazy son of a bitch from other murderes is there’s a ton of other trigger happy Texans (who mind you, are only fucking up the support for the 2nd Amendment) out there willing to say he did the right thing.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Yay for Texan murderers. There should be more of them.
[/quote]

Murder schmurder.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Yay for Texan murderers. There should be more of them.
[/quote]

lol

I hope he was BLOODY sure they were there to steal or some other unlawful activity.

I’ve had to break into a friends house once. He had told me to mind it for the night. When I got there, there was an unfortunate accident involving an old washing machine out the front of the house and I severed the tendon in my wrist, nearly cut off a finger and was bleeding very heavily.

It was then I realised I had no way of actually getting inside. So I forced a window open (didn’t have to break it), climbed inside and stopped my bleeding.

I would have been REALLY FUCKING PISSED if some trigger happy texan barged into the house at that moment and shot me with a 12 gauge before asking questions.

I would have just shouted “hey I know you are burgling the house and i’ve called the police”

[quote]AdamC wrote:
I would have just shouted “hey I know you are burgling the house and i’ve called the police” [/quote]

I think that would have pissed off the police, since the police here have a chance of busting them in the act.

I heard the tapes, and you can clearly hear him saying to the dispatch that he had to go as they were getting away… a few moments later you can hear him yellin’ “I gotcha!” then bang! and then another BANG! He then wen back into his house and said “Hurry up!” because they were bleeding pretty bad. The 911 operator then asked him to put the gun down so the cops can approach as they were onsite… pathetic, he was in no danger. I can understand the frustration of being beside a house being robbed however to kill over stolen property? He was lucky a bystander was not near and he thought they were part of the gang robbing the house.

I know some will say serves them right however it could have had a darker outcome.

[quote]Contrl wrote:
I’m all about protecting one’s own family and property, but… that old crazy son of a bitch wasn’t protecting anybody’s life. He blatantly kept repeating that he intended to go outside and kill the burglars because he was upset with them robbing from his neighbor’s (an abandoned) house. That’s not being protective, that’s plain murder. The only thing that separates that crazy son of a bitch from other murderes is there’s a ton of other trigger happy Texans (who mind you, are only fucking up the support for the 2nd Amendment) out there willing to say he did the right thing.[/quote]

It is funny how two different people can hear the same taped conversation and interpret it completely differently. I heard that I am going to stop them, and I will kill them if I have to.

I think that the only mistake that he made was calling 911 to report the crime. He should have just called after he shot them.

We have the right to arrest a felony in progress. It is called a citizens arrest. Under that we are afforded the ability to use necessary force. Unfortunately for these two guys this gentlemen�??s thresh hold for using lethal force was lower than others might have been. Much like a female officer is more likely to use deadly force before a male, I am sure the same is true of a 61-year-old male. I know at one point he says if I go out there I “might” have to shoot them. He defiantly voiced his willingness to do so, but I think that he should not be arrested for voicing his awareness of what his actions might entail. I think that it is also important to note that in the last tape he says the first guy he shot came on to his property. This would indeed indicate a hostile approach. If I was robbing a house and a guy with a shotgun tried to stop me the last way I would head is toward him. That is unless I intended to harm him. Just the way I interpreted the whole thing. Personally I would not have taken that risk over someone else�??s shit but that is also why I am not a cop.

He is not a murder (in the cold blooded sense), you and I are just a little more afraid to die over possessions. At 61 I might be willing to risk my life to get 2 criminals off of the streets, in hand cuffs or body bags.

Ahhh well, two less thieves in the world…can anyone say that they really care??

[quote]texasguy2 wrote:
pookie wrote:
Yay for Texan murderers. There should be more of them.

Murder schmurder. [/quote]

Yeah, you’re right.

Allow me to rephrase:

Yay for homicidal Texan crazies. There should be more of them.

I’d love to have that guy for a neighbor…

I heard the tapes as well, and he didn’t say “I gotcha”, he said, “You’re dead” before firing the first of 3 shots.

Fuck burglars. I could care less about someone who preys upon the innocent.

[quote]Hagar wrote:
Fuck burglars. I could care less about someone who preys upon the innocent. [/quote]

Did hell just froze over? Did soembody from California actaully agree with the Texas law?

Here’s the problem, in my eyes. That guy, and that guy alone played the role of the cops, judge, and jury. He decided a crime was committed. He decided those two people were guilty. He sentenced them to death.

That’s fucked up, and that law is, in my eyes, fucked up.

I understand using deadly force to protect ones life. But … ugh.

Shoot first…call the cops after.
There are a lot of gun owners in Texas and to rob someones house in broad daylight isn’t the smartest thing to do.
The old man definitely wanted to blast em. His mistake was to call 911 and tell them what he planned to do.

What if…

The 2 guys had been defrauded by the neighbor and, having been given the run around by the cops, decided to track him down and get their cash back?

-or-

The 2 guys actually know the neighbor, who’s a cheap bastard, and decided to pull a prank on him.

-or-

The neighbor has been dodging his alimony payments, and his ex-wife’s brother and friend decided to come by and collect her due.


Of course, those scenarios are bloody unlikely - the guys were most probably robbing the neighbor - but they’re not impossible. I could understand the guy shooting people coming into his own house, but going out and shooting people at his neighbor’s house is nuts.

[quote]dennis3k wrote:
Ahhh well, two less thieves in the world…can anyone say that they really care?? [/quote]

You are disturbing, sir. And it seems you don’t value human life that much since property is more important to you.

There is always a story behind the story, you don’t know anything about the thieves. Yes, stealing is wrong, that’s not what I’m saying. But seriosly, getting killed for it? Seems like that is something they would do in Iran or other fundamentalist country.
(correct me if I’m wrong about the Iran part)

I work part-time in a prison, 70% of the criminals got there because of drugs. The rest is mainly ADHD.
I have talked to recovering heroine addicts, one which got a shot heroine from a sailor at 12 years old. My point is… there is always a story behind. Still think they deserved to die?