Drax: Just enough for a good buzz.
fact is half the men in america read playboy.the other half just dont admit it.
Demo Dick- “Unless, of course, you go into a rut every spring and scrape your antlers against trees whilst pissing on yourself”. That really is funny stuff, I love how you come up with some outlandish, off the wall comment to back your argument.
Anyway, I see a lot of opinions coming from the point of view that The More You Suffer, The More You Care. This is crazy. Thats one sure way to end up in a physical abuse counselors office or a psychiatric ward.
Bottom line is everyone has different perceptions and different values. You cannot project your values onto someone else’s because they have a different reality than you. Everyone has a different morality, and everyone has a different view. No one is right or wrong. Some people hold pleasing others as a high value for themselves, others feel their own feeling should come first. You could say, “oh, well that person who has their own feelings coming first is greedy” Well, not according to a rape victim. See, it’s all relativity. Lets say Axy is coming from the point of view that he’s on earth to derive pleasure, and enrich himself, and not fall into staying staus quo and fall into the norms of our culture. He’s gonna filter everything through that perception. Fine. Michelle will filter her perception perhaps through compromising for the good of others and to keep a stable relationship. Fine. The two viewpoints don’t mix, so there’s gonna be arguments, but no one is right or wrong.
“Bottom line is everyone has different perceptions and different values. You cannot project your values onto someone else’s because they have a different reality than you. Everyone has a different morality, and everyone has a different view. No one is right or wrong.”
I absolutely agree with you (for the purposes of this discussion-such an argument taken to extreme would permit incest and cannibalism, and I’m sure that you wouldn’t take that position). If two people have differing social constructions of reality sufficient to cause serious stress to the relationship, then they should bag it and find someone that they more in common with. But you can’t have it both ways and say “I’m this way and my partner must bend to it.” Well, sometimes you can, because some partners want to be submissive. For others, there has to be a middle ground.
“You could say, ‘oh, well that person who has their own feelings coming first is greedy’ Well, not according to a rape victim.”
True, but we’re not talking about a rape victim in this case; we’re talking about a “normal” adult in a loving relationship. I put my partner first, and she does the same for me. It works for us. I understand that not every relationship works quite like that, but in my experience, those that do have a much better chance of lasting in the long run.
Oh, and the point about the rutting elk was to show how utterly absurd it is to use simple genetic arguments as a motivation for complex human behavior. This forum isn’t exactly the environment where one references every point with a peer-reviewed journal. Sometimes you gotta go for the elk peeing on himself. :)
Just tell her that you only watch porn so that you can pleasure her better every time. (sound absolutely sincere to the point of ridiculousness) She will probably laugh although I don’t really have this issue.
How ironic that this topic was discussed in this week’s atomic dog. I like TC’s answer though.
If you want to watch porn date someone who likes porn or doesn’t care. Why is this so hard? For me porn is meaningless, has no true value to add to my life, and makes me no better as a person. I’m not saying it’s bad. But, it’s obviously not like going to school or working out. So for me it’s easy to give up in a relationship. It’s just not important enough for me to be uncompromising about. However, there are things that to me are uncompromising. Everyone is different in what those things are. Why is this so hard to see?
I am reading new TC’s column and I will quote a part of his text I could not agree more with. I guess I would be flamed to ashes if I called some women who get pissed at Playboy whiny little bitch, but hey - it is just good old double standards, nothing else…
"Let me guess, this is also a girl who gets pissed if you look at a Playboy or a Victoria's Secret Catalog too, right? She probably smacks you in the arm and has a little snit when you rubberneck at some babe in a tube top, right?
I’ve got one word for you, SJ, and that’s run. A T-man wants a partner in life, not some insecure, whiny little bitch who can’t understand, why-o-why, you’d want to look at some other girl naked. Why, isn’t she the physical realization of every sexual dream you ever had? No? Why then, you’re a beast! Get away from me while I pout and cry myself silly!
Sound familiar? Get the hell out of that relationship. If you have to subjugate all your animal instincts, all your guyness for the sake of her insecurities, you’re either in for a life of misery or a life of telling lies, and T-Man doesn’t make a habit of telling lies.
Here’s what T-Man would say to her:
“Honey, I love ya’, but if I want to go look at naked women with my friends and maybe get a lap dance, I’m going to do it. And you should be happy about it because I’m going to come home really, really, horny and you’d better put on your roller blading helmet because I’m going to be pile driving you into the headboard all night long. I promise that I won’t partake in any hookers, should they appear, but that doesn’t mean I might not watch one of them giving my friend a hummer. My appreciation of other female forms doesn’t mean that you have some physical shortcomings. It only means I’m normal. However, if you can’t handle that, we really need to reevaluate the future of this relationship.”
Sure if wasting your money on some skanky stripper is more important than your wife, I guess you could agree with him. I also have normal urges to punch people out that piss me off, but I refrain. Fine, if he has another opinion, cool. But, I happen to think his idea of a “T-man” acting like an immature fratboy is way off. Well, I least that answers you question about double standards. “oh honey, I love you and respect you, now I’m going to go get some skanky stripper to rub her naked ass in my lap.”
Okay, if there are still any women reading this crazy thread, or that other one, which should really all be combined…
How many of you think it would be cool to have your man “turned on” by some other woman so that he could then come home to you and “pile-drive you into the headboards all night?” To me that is the most preposterous sorry excuse for immature behaviour ever! How insulting! And herein lies the difference. Men just want to be turned on. Women want to be turned on by the man they want to be with and also they want to be the ones that turn on their men. And cut the crap about our low self-esteem and how we have to deal with “our own problem” ourselves. Generally, I’ve found that it is the men that create the self-esteem problems in many women. If your guy flips through a Playboy once in a while, I really don’t think too many women would have a big problem with that. I think, rather, they would look over his shoulder, comment, laugh and carry on. On the other hand, if this same guy suddenly starts partaking of Playboy and other porn items on a regular basis, he is sending out a signal that he prefers to look at these women, or that the one he has somehow doesn’t measure up. Just because guys like to look at lots of naked women doesn’t mean that that is right in every situation. At some point, it’s time to grow up and be adult, and in my opinion, being adult is knowing where to draw the line. In my personal and humble opinion, any man that needs, and expects, to view MANY naked women on a REGULAR basis (in magazines, or in strip clubs) is not mature enough to be in a committed relationship. And as far as women trying to “change” their guys after they are married–well, change is expected after marriage. On both accounts. You cannot unite your life with another person and expect to carry on just like you did when you were single. It doesn’t happen that way if it’s going to be good and it’s going to work. Both people have to give and take, both people change. It is inevitable, and if anyone tries to convince you otherwise, they are wrong. The degree to which you allow yourself to be pushed around is another thing, and that works both ways. There are plenty of men out there who emotionally abuse their wives. It is well known that women tend to mature sooner than men, so perhaps this viewing of us women trying to change the men (even though we knew what we were getting into before we married them) is more a matter of trying to steer them towards the mature men that they ought to be and away from “gee isn’t it fun to get loaded with the boys, throw up a few times, drink some more, gaze at naked women, and burp”.
I realize I have ranted a bit here, but I really resent this generalization that women are control freaks who always want to remould their men. So, I thought I would throw in a few generalizations of my own! Looking forward to being flamed on some of what I said, but perhaps it should be on another thread. So, go ahead, Axy, start up a new one! 
There are billions of men in the world. Why not find a man you already consider to be mature rather than trying to change a “frat” boy?
TC eloquently spoke for all os us except for one thing; I do not run from the girl, I tell her “it’s my way or the highway.”
I’d say that this thread is more or less dead because everything has been said.
Muscle Jeff needs to find new girlfriend. Woman very insecure. So, what do you do hide your magazines. Oh, I better go now because your girlfriend might find you reading this and pitch a bitch. Besides I believe shes yelling at you right now to come back and watch Lifetime channel with her. This is pathetic.
You support the very generalization that you criticize. By saying that it is a woman’s job to help a man “mature,” you are essentially espousing the role of girlfriend/wife as a mother, not as a lover or partner. If the guy you’re interested in isn’t “mature” enough for you, find someone else. Even if you “tame” him, he’ll resent you for life for it. As soon as one person in a relationship decides that it is his/her job to make the other person “better,” then that person has obviously lost respect for the other person. The relationship should terminate, because the implication is that “you are flawed, I will fix you.” Screw that. I realize that I could be more responsible, but I’ve told girls before: if you don’t like it, leave. When will I change? Never. If I do, it will be because I want to, not because you bitched at me for three hours.
damn this is long.
My wife (a great T-Vixen I must add) and I will buy a copy of Playboy or Maxum everyonce in a while. She will look at the pics with me, or look later. Usually we buy only issues with someone that you know has a kick ass body from working out, leading the life style we all do! It is like talking about sex, what the other partner wants, likes, or dislikes, why not look together, as long as she doesn’t catch you pounding your pudding rather than bieng with her! Hell, a healthy relationship included all aspects, we are visual creatures, looking is a hell of a lot better than pretending you don’t look. How screwed up is that! If anyone out there says that there is no way that they do not sneak a peak at some hotty on the stair master, or your T-Vixen says she doesn’t look at the shredded guy posing in front of the mirror, they are liars. Just because we are on diets, doesn’t mean we can not look at the menu’s! Just my two cents worth!