[quote]therajraj wrote:
It doesn’t surprise me that pstianb is from Norway - it’s a highly feminist nation.
Completely explains his post[/quote]
I really don’t think we are any more feminist nation that anyone else. I did not even talk about just women, I said the ones that are weaker than you, both man and woman.
Nor did I say that you should never punch a woman or a weaker individual than yourself, I just said that its rarely called for. And as a man ( 50 years or not, hes allot bigger and probably stronger than her) you should be able to clear up the situation without having to uppercut her face off.[/quote]
And Therajraj is from Canada…of course a great country, but if we’re going to be doing someting as inane as labeling other countries as ‘feminist’ then Canada could be up there too.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
It doesn’t surprise me that pstianb is from Norway - it’s a highly feminist nation.
Completely explains his post[/quote]
You know, Raj, feminism is nothing more than a belief in equal rights and standing for women. Unless you feel that women don’t deserve the same rights as men, are inherently inferior from an intellectual standpoint and do not belong in the workforce at all, you too are a feminist. That’s mainly what feminism is and where it comes from. There certainly are feminists who go WAY overboard, and they’re all women, but the behavior and attitudes of the lunatic fringe of feminism, as with any other lunatic fringe, is the most vocal and the element most closely associated with the feminist movement.
It’s unfortunate because that isn’t what the feminism movement is/was really all about, just like not all Canadians are monosyllabic inbreds with mullets and a closet full of hockey sweaters.
So if you simply believe in equal rights that aren’t doled out on the basis of race, sex, wealth or whatever, then you are a feminist by default. You just aren’t a radically-vocal, militant, dyke feminist.
Much of western Europe is certainly feminine dominant. The overly cautious politically correct phenomena took much deeper root there than in the US and right on the heels of women breaking the “glass” ceilings in business and industry, paving the way for feminism to take on the role of race relations in the US in my observation. Leaving semantics out, raj is right.
And equal means getting hit back without gender prejudice.
I really don’t think we are any more feminist nation that anyone else. [/quote]
Then I urge you to do some research.
[quote]pstianb wrote:
I did not even talk about just women, I said the ones that are weaker than you, both man and woman.
Nor did I say that you should never punch a woman or a weaker individual than yourself, I just said that its rarely called for. And as a man ( 50 years or not, hes allot bigger and probably stronger than her) you should be able to clear up the situation without having to uppercut her face off.[/quote]
Well you see feminist hags have taken over your country and heavily influenced public policy. Assuming you’re young, this has effected your socialization and therefore your thoughts and opinions greatly.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
It doesn’t surprise me that pstianb is from Norway - it’s a highly feminist nation.
Completely explains his post[/quote]
I really don’t think we are any more feminist nation that anyone else. I did not even talk about just women, I said the ones that are weaker than you, both man and woman.
Nor did I say that you should never punch a woman or a weaker individual than yourself, I just said that its rarely called for. And as a man ( 50 years or not, hes allot bigger and probably stronger than her) you should be able to clear up the situation without having to uppercut her face off.[/quote]
And The rajraj is from Canada…of course a great country, but if we’re going to be doing someting as inane as labeling otehr countries as ‘feminine’ then Canada could be up there too.[/quote]
I didn’t label Norway feminine I labeled it feminist. Big big difference, could even say those to ideas are diametrically opposite.
There’s also nothing inane of my characterization of Norway but yes the feminist movement is strong in Canada too. Scandinavia takes the cake though.
And equal means getting hit back without gender prejudice.[/quote]
I am far from some lefty hippy pansy and all that but I don’t think you justify hitting a woman with “Uh, you said you wanted equal rights…so you asked for it {UPPERCUT}”
You know, Raj, feminism is nothing more than a belief in equal rights and standing for women. [/quote]
This is just the veneer for something truly awful.
Google fat feminism for one.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Unless you feel that women don’t deserve the same rights as men, are inherently inferior from an intellectual standpoint and do not belong in the workforce at all, you too are a feminist. That’s mainly what feminism is and where it comes from. There certainly are feminists who go WAY overboard, and they’re all women, but the behavior and attitudes of the lunatic fringe of feminism, as with any other lunatic fringe, is the most vocal and the element most closely associated with the feminist movement. [/quote]
Modern feminism has a LOT more to it than just striving for equal opportunity for women. Today’s feminism is about allowing women to become fat sluts. Check out a few of these articles from prominent feminist site Jezebel:
â??A cupcake is a symbol for both a vagina and the female orgasmâ??
Senior writer for Jezebel
-Don’t judge women for being sluts
To answer your posts directly, I believe men and women are inherently different and meant to play certain roles in society and both men and women are happiest in these roles. Feminist love to deny this citing gender roles to be nothing more than a social construct but you’re seeing more and more this to not be true.
I can’t give you a full blown response since it’s bed time but here’s a study for you to chew on: Female happiness is on a steady decline overall and in comparison to men. With the explosion of female opportunity why are so few women happy nowadays?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
So if you simply believe in equal rights that aren’t doled out on the basis of race, sex, wealth or whatever, then you are a feminist by default. You just aren’t a radically-vocal, militant, dyke feminist.[/quote]
Go check out the writers of feminist blogs, websites and you’ll notice a pattern.
The women who cling to feminism are those who lost out in the genetic lottery. Fat, ugly, plain looking women unable to attract quality men are feminist, there are no Taylor Swifts in the bunch. The hot 21 year old who has guys coming at her left, right and centre has no use for feminism because her life is just peachy.
My thoughts are all over the place in this post… I’d have to write a huge wall of text to get everything in… maybe tomorrow I’ll write a more succinct post, or attempt to.
And equal means getting hit back without gender prejudice.[/quote]
I am far from some lefty hippy pansy and all that but I don’t think you justify hitting a woman with “Uh, you said you wanted equal rights…so you asked for it {UPPERCUT}”[/quote]
No, no, no.
The point being made was that her gender shouldn’t allow her to avoid the consequences of her actions. I really don’t believe the bus driver would be suspended indefinitely had this been a rowdy 22 year old male
Yeah but consequences doesn’t have to mean a punch from a bus driver.
As I said before, I can be very, very glad she got hit without thinking the bus driver should be the one hitting her.
If we start with that “You wanted to be equal so here’s equal” then a ten year-old that may not be able to vote, drink or drive but has the same rights as anyone else is going to get knocked the fuck out if they hit me. Even a girl! BAM!
And equal means getting hit back without gender prejudice.[/quote]
I am far from some lefty hippy pansy and all that but I don’t think you justify hitting a woman with “Uh, you said you wanted equal rights…so you asked for it {UPPERCUT}”[/quote]
No, no, no.
The point being made was that her gender shouldn’t allow her to avoid the consequences of her actions. I really don’t believe the bus driver would be suspended indefinitely had this been a rowdy 22 year old male
[/quote]
I’m curious raj what roles do you believe males and females are most comfortable in? Are you for or against gender equality? I ask the second question because you seem to be both for and against gender equality in this instance. On one hand you state that we are different meant for different roles, then on the other state that gender equality dictates that this woman should have been punched as equally as a man. Which side are you on?
You know, Raj, feminism is nothing more than a belief in equal rights and standing for women. [/quote]
This is just the veneer for something truly awful.
Google fat feminism for one.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Unless you feel that women don’t deserve the same rights as men, are inherently inferior from an intellectual standpoint and do not belong in the workforce at all, you too are a feminist. That’s mainly what feminism is and where it comes from. There certainly are feminists who go WAY overboard, and they’re all women, but the behavior and attitudes of the lunatic fringe of feminism, as with any other lunatic fringe, is the most vocal and the element most closely associated with the feminist movement. [/quote]
Modern feminism has a LOT more to it than just striving for equal opportunity for women. Today’s feminism is about allowing women to become fat sluts. Check out a few of these articles from prominent feminist site Jezebel:
â??A cupcake is a symbol for both a vagina and the female orgasmâ??
Senior writer for Jezebel
-Don’t judge women for being sluts
To answer your posts directly, I believe men and women are inherently different and meant to play certain roles in society and both men and women are happiest in these roles. Feminist love to deny this citing gender roles to be nothing more than a social construct but you’re seeing more and more this to not be true.
I can’t give you a full blown response since it’s bed time but here’s a study for you to chew on: Female happiness is on a steady decline overall and in comparison to men. With the explosion of female opportunity why are so few women happy nowadays?
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
So if you simply believe in equal rights that aren’t doled out on the basis of race, sex, wealth or whatever, then you are a feminist by default. You just aren’t a radically-vocal, militant, dyke feminist.[/quote]
Go check out the writers of feminist blogs, websites and you’ll notice a pattern.
The women who cling to feminism are those who lost out in the genetic lottery. Fat, ugly, plain looking women unable to attract quality men are feminist, there are no Taylor Swifts in the bunch. The hot 21 year old who has guys coming at her left, right and centre has no use for feminism because her life is just peachy.
My thoughts are all over the place in this post… I’d have to write a huge wall of text to get everything in… maybe tomorrow I’ll write a more succinct post, or attempt to.[/quote]
First of all, what’s wrong with not being judged for being a slut? Their point is that there shouldn’t be a double standard based on sex regarding people’s sexual activity. Men aren’t held to the same standard. Think about it: there isn’t even a term that is perfectly analogous to “slut” for men that is as commonplace as “slut”. Certainly not in the same negative connotation.
Secondly, to use your own venacular from the MLB thread, you’re really cherry-picking with some of your examples, Raj. I could just as easily fill up this site with links to much more moderate feminist organizations, and from a much more varied array of sources than one blog site and an article from the Huffington Post. That still isn’t entirely representative of the feminist movement, modern or not, as a whole. Nor is it even relevant to begin with since the most basic connotation to the word “feminism” simply means a belief in equal rights for women. That’s the one thread common to all feminist movements. Granted, some most likely believe in more rights for women than men, but none believe in less rights or a reduction of women’s rights. And women’s rights extend far beyond just abortion or contraceptive rights.
Thirdly, Raj, I don’t blame a lot of these pro-fatty feminist sites for popping up. Let’s face it, no matter how vocal some of these groups get, they aren’t going to overwhelm the massive feeling within society that there is something inherently wrong with being fat. In general, society isn’t too crazy about fat people, at least in the U.S., so an overreaction of this sort is bound to occur. In an Internet world it’s easy for those sorts of people to have a voice and it serves to spread their message and corrupt the overall feminist movement.
And I think that is the answer to your question about women’s declining levels of happiness. First of all, I would argue that women’s opportunities have not significantly increased since the economic collapse in the fall of 2008. So I think the fact that opportunity in general is down right now at least partially explains for this downward trend in women’s happiness.
But I think the bigger reason is still in society’s standard for women. I don’t know what it is about women, but for whatever reason they don’t generally take well to being continuously bombarded with unrealistic images of the female ideal, via advertising, TV, film, music and so on. Anywhere you look, the ugly women still get shit simply for being ugly, or fat or whatever. I think women feel that this happens to a larger extent with women than men. I don’t know how the hell to quantify that, but I think in general it is accurate to say that men aren’t condemned to the same extent for being fat or whatever. I think this perception, if it is even true to begin with, probably stems from the idea that the man is the earner while the woman is not and basically consumes what he alone provides, and so he can get fat without impunity whereas the woman getting fat would be seen as taking advantage of her husband’s hard work. I don’t know.
Besides, knowing your poor track record in researching the legitimacy of studies and polls and that sort of thing, I wouldn’t be surprised if I found that there were a lot of surveys out there that essentially show the opposite to what you’re arguing.
[quote]Nards wrote:
Yeah but consequences doesn’t have to mean a punch from a bus driver.
As I said before, I can be very, very glad she got hit without thinking the bus driver should be the one hitting her.
If we start with that “You wanted to be equal so here’s equal” then a ten year-old that may not be able to vote, drink or drive but has the same rights as anyone else is going to get knocked the fuck out if they hit me. Even a girl! BAM!
[quote]
A discussion I can certainly appreciate. I agree that she was backing off because she was losing tactical advantage. But was that de-escalation, or tactical retreat? The driver had to decide almost instantly whether or not she was going to resume if he dropped his guard.
From what it looks like, he hit her because he needed to interrupt her assault long enough to get her off the bus – and this was not a beating, it was a stun & evict move. Attacking him shows very poor personal safety on her part, since (and this is with us sitting here all nice and sober), if the bus crashes, she gets hurt too. Obviously she wasn’t thinking that way. So if I were the driver, I have a passenger who is being a hazard to everyone and shows what is legally termed reckless endangerment. Would you really want to wait around to see what she’s going to do next? Remember there are passengers he has to watch out for too. I think this is more of what was going through his mind.
Oh and that she was pretty hot to re-enter the bus after the ejection shows some serious intent on her part. Obviously the upper cut didn’t interrupt her enough to have her reconsider what she was doing. Either he just tapped her (doesn’t look that way) or he got it right that she had a serious bug up her ass about something and wasn’t going to back down without a fight. It is very hard to judge intent from a video, but the evidence supports the driver I think.
I’m not so sexist as to think hitting a girl is intrinsically wrong. Don’t forget that the absolute vast majority of child abusers are women. Assault is not gender specific, it is about a violent nature coupled with figuring that you can get away with it.
A recent example: My youngest son got beaten up a couple of weeks ago. Some kid tried to take his bike and my son got it back. The kid took a swipe him an missed and my kid got away from him and went back with his friends. Then the kid hung around for like 5 minutes trying to get closer. Once he finally did, he punched my son out. Point is that the kid made his decision to attack, then waited for an opening. He also faked not being mad anymore, just to get closer (and this worked). Such are how violent people behave. For them, violence is their trump card and always works (or so they think), so once they have elected to engage, they’ll keep at it until they succeed.
– jj
Edit: One other thing is the interaction at the very beginning. She didn’t just walk up and hit him, there was some chat going on. Here’s another scenario: She’s a regular on his route and has been a handful several times. Now she’s decided to go after him. He might know what’s coming next. Ever consider that? Assaults don’t usually happen at random (especially when women instigate). Victim and assailant usually know each other and possibly quite well. This fact I have no information on, but it sure looks enough like it at the beginning to make me wonder.[/quote]
Excellent points. Framed in that context his actions hold up a little better than I might initially have thought. The video plays very poorly on my computer and I haven’t seen any of the lead up or the events from after her ejection as you describe. That changes the picture as well. I have also read none of the reports submitted by any of the parties involved (just not that invested in the whole thing) so my initial assessment was based on pretty limited info.
I also know that an important part of an intelligent force response is knowing when to downgrade your aggression level so it’s still appropriate to what the threat is doing now. I wasn’t sure if that was happening in this case. You make a good, very plausible point about deescalation vs. tactical retreat in answer to this. The later events as you describe do potentially bear this out. Pretty hard to know what his actual thought process was at the time however.
Like I said, to me, this isn’t so much about gender as it is about behaviour. I worked as a bouncer for a while and I can attest that some of the worst, most violent people I ever removed from the premises were young, drunken, belligerent females. I never did actually strike one of these girls, but there were times when I probably should have. If a person thinks a woman is not a potential threat to a man, that person is mistaken. I was raised to be mindful of chivalry and to try to conduct myself at least somewhat like a gentleman, when its practical. As such I have a certain aversion to hitting women, but at the end of the day violence is violence.
Sorry to hear about your boy, fwiw. No real harm done I trust, and I expect he learned something from the exchange.
Edit - I always seem to cock it up when I try to shorten quotes. Not sure why.
Again, you make the unlikely assumption that he calmly and logically weighed the options in the same manner as you have the luxury of doing, without threat, chaos or a flood of adrenaline, from the comfort of your home. [/quote]
Lol. You’re talking to someone who’s been involved in streetfights and had fought professionally. No one thinks clearly when this kind of situation happens, of course. But again, there’s such thing called self-control. And it takes a lot of experience to learn this. [/quote]
Could have stopped writing right here. You just confirmed exactly what I’ve been saying.
I didn’t label Norway feminine I labeled it feminist. Big big difference, could even say those to ideas are diametrically opposite.
[/quote]
Meh…
Its pretty much the opposite of the best feminine traits, but it is a vicious bundle of the more potent negative female traits, wrapped up in their psychological blind spots and unabashed White Knightery.
You know, Raj, feminism is nothing more than a belief in equal rights and standing for women. [/quote]
Lies
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Unless you feel that women don’t deserve the same rights as men, are inherently inferior from an intellectual standpoint and do not belong in the workforce at all, you too are a feminist. That’s mainly what feminism is and where it comes from. There certainly are feminists who go WAY overboard, and they’re all women, but the behavior and attitudes of the lunatic fringe of feminism, as with any other lunatic fringe, is the most vocal and the element most closely associated with the feminist movement. [/quote]
Funny, I am a libertarian and I dont believe that anyone should be a second class citizen due to being born with a uterus.
I also do believe though that this is no longer what its about, now it is about vagina supremacy, which in and of itself would just be another form of special interest, but coupled with the vile intellectual horseshit it is justified with it has become a form of intellectual pollution.
I buttsecks patriarchal theory.
Btw, the offical Swedish flag is now a pic of a vagina.
Yes, Women can say what they want and do pretty much everything in Norway. But if it is about sluts being fat, the states and allot of other countries are 10 times worse than Norway The most trendy thing to do in Norway is working out and looking good, so that argument is invalid.
“Modern feminism has a LOT more to it than just striving for equal opportunity for women. Today’s feminism is about allowing women to become fat sluts.”
And equal means getting hit back without gender prejudice.[/quote]
I am far from some lefty hippy pansy and all that but I don’t think you justify hitting a woman with “Uh, you said you wanted equal rights…so you asked for it {UPPERCUT}”[/quote]
Me neither. You justify it by getting hit first while driving a bus after repeated threats to have men she knows come and “get you”.
You don’t hold back because the aggressor has boobs and then cry equality. I read this thread and on page one, DBC mentions never hitting a woman no matter what, and now is parading feminism and equality.
Point being, you can’t have both.
“Wanna fight like a man, gonna get hit like a man.”
The most trendy thing to do in Norway is working out and looking good, so that argument is invalid.