[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Hey, boondoc, I think that’s why Diesel asked the original question…I think.
At least, that’s why I’m asking the question.
Given that half an hour or more of some type of intense training–tire or wheelbarrow or car pushing or whatever can keep your heart in the target zone or higher, is it as good an energy systems work out as pure cardio?
Especially given say CT’s use of 440 sprints to lose fat in the Beast Evolves.[/quote]
thanks for helping clear it up bruddah! yeah i’d have to agree with top by and large. now say if you were to drag a sled non-stop (at light resistance) or with 20-30 second breaks it might equate to a traditional cardio or HIIT session. i don’t see why that’s not acceptable. energy systems work is most likely more efficient although i’ve got no raw data on that. and again, it’s gonna depend on your sport or other athletic endeavor. usually, i use GPP as active recovery during all phases of training as well as in exclusive GPP phases of training.
My deal is–and don’t let this subvert the original question–that GPP looks way cooler to me, but I will bite the bullet on HIIT or even traditional cardio if it better serves my body composition goals. For others, the criterion will be hypertrophy, aerobic conditioning, or sport-specific. Who knows. but we can eventually answer all of the above To do that, I feel I need to know benefit vs. equivalent time and/or time vs. equivalent benefit for each. It’s not open ended (except in the question of specific movements–just pick your own examples for each if it makes a quantitative answer easier to find) so much as just difficult to answer. CW or CT or John Davies or Don Alessi has got to have a bead on it though.
joeweider-
they’re 400m sprints, not 440. Anyways, as far as what’s better energy system work? You say you dont like running, so don’t do it. Go flip tires, drag a sled, do barbell&DB complexes, pick up stones, do farmer’s walks, just work hard. Fuck heart rate zone. Just work hard.
[quote]Minotaur wrote:
P.S. - What would you categorize a few rounds on the heavy bag? G.P.P. or anaerobic cardio? Just wondering…for the sake of wondering.[/quote]
[quote]vandalay15 wrote:
joeweider-
they’re 400m sprints, not 440. Anyways, as far as what’s better energy system work? You say you dont like running, so don’t do it. Go flip tires, drag a sled, do barbell&DB complexes, pick up stones, do farmer’s walks, just work hard. Fuck heart rate zone. Just work hard.[/quote]
well, thanks for the correction, those extra 40 meters must be where the muscle breakdown suddenly occurs, huh?
Now, as we’ve already seen from some posts above yours, there is apparently a difference.
I just don’t know what the difference is.
For the record, I agree with you.
But I dunno the real answer.
[quote]vandalay15 wrote:
joeweider-
they’re 400m sprints, not 440. Anyways, as far as what’s better energy system work? You say you dont like running, so don’t do it. Go flip tires, drag a sled, do barbell&DB complexes, pick up stones, do farmer’s walks, just work hard. Fuck heart rate zone. Just work hard.[/quote]
400m = 440 yards, someone must have been doing the conversion for the non-metric people of the world!
Anyhow, they’re both the same, one lap around a track and multiple sets of them will make you question your sanity in doing them!
[quote]kligor wrote:
Minotaur wrote:
P.S. - What would you categorize a few rounds on the heavy bag? G.P.P. or anaerobic cardio? Just wondering…for the sake of wondering.
bump this question.
I’m also curious.[/quote]
GPP IS anaerobic cardio!! Heavy bag work, sprinting, and farmers walks are all total body workouts, general physical prepardness work, and highly anaerobic if you are working above 80% of you max HR.
And to add to the original question’s answer, the more intense you can get yourself to workout the faster the workouts and the quicker you can make significant physique changes. I think the question is about picking what works for you. I can make a 15 min HIIT bike session absolutely killer vs. having the space, equipment/facilities, and injury risks to do Farmer’s Walks.
None the less, 400m sprints are the best calorie drain on the planet… but, I wouldn’t eat 3 hours before doing them!
Bump. I guess I can’t hope for a quantitative conversion factor. Can I at least get some opinions on which choice is best for each of the possible objectives?
I don’t think there is a difference between cardio and GPP. Cardio, properly understood, is GPP. Running sprints makes you better and keeping your wind while running. Manhandling large objects makes you better at keeping your wind while manhandling large objects. Doing high rep clean and jerks makes you better at both running and manhandling large objects, but not as good as you would be at either of them if you only practiced sprinting or manhandling large objects. You get the idea.
The exercise’s impact on your body’s various systems (your CV capacity, your CNS, your muscles, etecetera) is more important than the means you use to get that effect. Sprints are more similar in effect to fast kettlebell swings than to two-hour jogs.
[quote]dond1esel wrote:
The question remains, how much benefit for each objective per unit time with each movement?[/quote]
Lots. Head to the weight room for a sec. You can do 1 set of leg entensions, 1 set of leg curls, and 1 set of calf raises…OR you can do 3 sets of squats. Which will give you a better benefit, per time invested?
Now translate that into the “G.P.P./Energy Sys.” room. You can do 20 minutes of H.I.T. running, or 5 minutes of non-stop tire flipping. Which will give a better return for time invested?
Diesel, it sounds like you’re looking for the “money exercises” of fat burning. For that, I’ll say that “traditional” G.P.P. sessions (if that’s not an oxymoron) will win every time, provided that they’re intense enough (meaning: not tumbling, or non-weighted calisthenics).
GPP doesn’t have to be weighted, it varies depending on your competitive sport. Farmer Walks, Tire Flips, etc., can serve as GPP for a PLer, but are sport specific to someome competing in Strongman.
The whole idea of doing GPP is to increase work capacity, fix muscular imbalances and take a mental break from your main sport.
CR’s 400m workout can be used as GPP, but he originally designed it to improve the energy system of hockey players during the off season (a 400m sprint is a close approximation of an average hockey shift), the fat burning was a byproduct of the workout.
My last points:
GPP is meant to supplement the training with something not specific to your sport
If your GPP training is too hard it will have negative effects on your Sport Specific Training
If you want to lose bodyfat, GPP can help, but not as much as fixing your diet will!
[quote]dond1esel wrote:
The question remains, how much benefit for each objective per unit time with each movement?[/quote]
Despite the fact that some knowledgeable posters are humoring you with a plethora of anecdotal info, not to offend you, but I think you are missing the weight room for the plates. Perceived benefit of any exercise are increased VO2 max, hypertrophy, positive composition changes, psychological satisfaction, improved glucose tolerance, etc, etc.
You’ve already heard the 400m SPRINTS are the hands down best workout per minute of exercise. Beyond that, try flipping a 400 pound tire - you’ll get a hell of a workout in just a few seconds! Similar to dead lifting rest pause singles with 95% of your max. I don’t know how many times you need to hear this before you can answer your own question, but the greater you stress the CV system with proper recovery, the greater the results!! Period!
If you want to get faster, sprint. If you want to become a stronger/better over-all athlete, do GPP. If you want hypertrophy, lift heavy weights with proper recovery nutrition. If you want a kick-ass body in the quickest amount of time, DO ALL THE ABOVE!
If you are looking for “nat’s ass” calculations, backed up with data, you are barking up the wrong tree. In that case you need to be consulting a human performance lab.
I usually love to discuss things infinitum, but now is a good time to pick your poison and get to work!