I have been reading T-Nation for a few years and find it tough to find clear cut advice from the authors and posts (here and on other forums) if what I am doing makes sense.
I am 23 1/2 years old and have been training and eating well for 5 years now. At 18 I was 150 and got to 185 with 12%bf naturally at 22. I started taking steroids at 22 and in about a years time went from 185 to 200 with 8%bf.
For various reasons, I decided to stop cycling 6 months ago. Where I was at in my career, relationships, and finances, I didn’t want to keep cycling with all the baggage that came with it (mood swings, health concerns (my liver was already irritated, heart rate soaring, etc.), and cost/benefit (I always felt that when I would come off I would lose a lot)).
About 4 months ago, I tried something different. I started taking GH with a little test (1.5ius a day for five days, off two days; 250mg/week). I have been feeling great. My mood is better than ever. I went from 200 to 210 staying at 8%bf. My strength is at an all time high. I sleep better and have more energy for work, sex, and workouts. I am training hard 6 days a week and recovering perfectly.
So, is this it for me? Can I just keep doing this for the rest of my life if I can afford it? I have heard so much about the rejuvenation effects of GH in small dosages, and I am not looking to compete. All that’s important for me is to be able to train hard and look good, and I feel that this combo will allow me to do that with minimal long-term side effects.
What do you guys think? I would really appreciate your advice.
Basically what you are doing is a high end HRT program, slightly higher doses than a doctor would be willing to prescribe but well within safe range. If it works for you then its a great plan, the one thing to consider would be long term sterility issues if you care about that. Some never have problems with this but it is one of the first things they ask you when you decide to go on hrt (if you plan to have kids).
250iu of HCG EOD will preserve baseline activity of the testes. One part of shrinking testes for some is pain, and the HCG stops that. Some will suggest clomid or other SERMs to keep the body producing LH and FSH.
250 mg of test is more than double what should produce high test levels -around 1000ug levels.
The HGH also will improve the liver and that will be part of your improvement.
Were you taking oral gear? What would have caused the liver issues?
I took dbol on one cycle and winny tabs for a while on another cycle (before switching to injectable winny).
Honestly, I have not taken any anti-E’s or HCG while doing low dose GH and Test. In my previous cycles, I used nolva and HCG while on and nolva and clomid for pct, but with this GH and Test combo I haven’t felt the need for it. My bloodwork so far has looked good, and my balls and boobs look and feel normal. All that being considered, should get the anti-E’s and HCG even though I feel like I don’t need them?
Would you recommend I go down to 125mg of Test a week instead to play it safe(r)?
The question of sterility is interesting, could you point me at references that talk about it at length?
This is the million dollar question for me. Before I ever touched anything, I had bloodwork done. My test levels were right around 300, which is on the low end, especially for someone 23 years old.
Now, after 2 years and a couple of cycles, I don’t want to come off for several reasons.
First I feel like the low test is almost a medical condition. Now, hitting myself at 250/wk for life is without a doubt self medicating, I don’t know if it’s worth the trouble of going through a dr.
My mood/energy levels/sex drive is so much better when I’m on. Many people say they feel like a god, but I just think that’s how I should feel all the time. I’m not moody, I sleep better, and I just get along with everyone better.
My only concerns are the fertility ones, and having your nuts turn off perm. I’m not big on HCG, so it’s something that I would not use on a regular basis. Also, no need for a anti-e, as I can run a pretty high does with no sides (thank god).
I’m curious to see some more replies on this thread, you may also want to post in the over 35 lifter, as I think some guys in there are on hrt.
[quote]KSman wrote:
Yes, damage to the testes will happen.
250iu of HCG EOD will preserve baseline activity of the testes. One part of shrinking testes for some is pain, and the HCG stops that. Some will suggest clomid or other SERMs to keep the body producing LH and FSH.
250 mg of test is more than double what should produce high test levels -around 1000ug levels.
The HGH also will improve the liver and that will be part of your improvement.
Were you taking oral gear? What would have caused the liver issues?
What are you doing to control E?[/quote]
Ksman hit the nail on the head.
What your doing is similar to what Im starting.
Low dose test(Im runing 100mg test - e per week) and low dose GH.
What your missing is two things. You need the hCG to keep your natural production going and preventing permenant testical atrophy.
Plus, with the test your running, or hell, even at half that dose, your going to have an elevated estrogen. Thats another issue you need to combat.
I would recommend you also get bloodwork done to help you adjust dosages.
This may sound stupid, but if you’re planning on doing this for the rest of your life, consider that you’re breaking the law every day for the rest of your life. I could care less about morality, that’s irrelevant, but you could get caught eventually w/ possession if that matters.
Still, I think this is a good idea if you don’t mind doing it-I think it’s actually rather healthy. On a side note, I’d use 2 iu’s,not 1.5.
Test prop for 10 weeks now test cyp. Just trying to rotate.
Yeah Monopoly I see you understand where I am coming from. I would like to hear from more advanced/experienced gear users as to the pluses and minuses of this enhanced HRT compared to the cycles they have used.
I read once on this sight something to the effect of “Jose Canseco is an idiot, but something he did say in his book (which I read) was that in all of his experience what he found to work best was small dosages of growth and test.” What do you think about that?
[quote]cougarenegade wrote:
This may sound stupid, but if you’re planning on doing this for the rest of your life, consider that you’re breaking the law every day for the rest of your life. I could care less about morality, that’s irrelevant, but you could get caught eventually w/ possession if that matters.
Still, I think this is a good idea if you don’t mind doing it-I think it’s actually rather healthy. On a side note, I’d use 2 iu’s,not 1.5. [/quote]
Actually though, I would probably imagine given his prior usage that his natural test has probably been damaged enough to get HRT legally anyways.
Anyone can get HRT nowadays legally if you know the right avenues to do so.
All in all dl, I think what your doing is a great idea and if you take the right precautionary steps, good for you.
I would highly recommend you get bloodwork done though so you can adjust (and possibly lower) dosages. Its always a good idea to use as little of drug as possible and still get said effect.