Update: I. can’t. walk.
My legs/back feel like…I’m not sure what, but they hurt! Pain is weakness leaving the body, so I’m pretty happy about this. Also, “Starting Strength” has a load of great info. Anyone who hasn’t read it and is serious about lifting should definitely check it out.
I wrote out a huge reply last night to all that had been said and then my comp wouldnt let it post… 
Basically there is nothing wrong with deading and squating in one workout, but it wont be optimol to your goals of hitting those numbers. If you are going to do it, squat first.
I would suggest you take on something like this:
Bench Day:
Bench/Incline Bench 5x5
Military Press 3x5
Close Grip 5x5
Tricep Isolation 4x8
Shoulder Prehab - wish i had done this way back when i started.
Squat Day:
Back Squat 5x5
Front Squat 3x5
Lunge/Split Bulgarians 4x8
Calf Work 4x20
Ab/Core Work
Deadlift Day:
Deadlift 5x5
Rack Pulls 5x3
Pull ups
DB Row 4x12
Lat Pull Down 4x8
Face Pulls 4x8
Things to alternate on Deadlift day and to use depending on where your form/sticking points are, Use 2 at the maximum but replace 2 of the exercises outlined. dont do them aswell or your back will probably implode:
Pull Throughs
Speed Pulls 8x3 - 1 min rest, 60% 1RM
Deficit Deads
Hyper Extensions
Straight Leg Deads
5x5 should be done at 80-85% of 1rm, and if you get all 5 sets unspotted then you increase weight the next week.
If your looking a cheap knock off of HOT-ROX, i use thermopure - Thermopure Capsules | MYPROTEIN™ i like it. cant really say how it stacks up against HOT-ROX. but its cheap and gives you a nice buzz in the morning and around workout time at least.
On your note about “killing yourself in the gym”. Im all about that as you probably know from reading my log. But be spamrt about it, dont destroy a muscle that you need in your next workout, dont keep going until failure - at least not all the time. write what your going to do, down before you go in.
Do it and if you dont feel spent you know to increase it for next week with regards to weights. and if your still not convinced, throw in Dan Johns barbell complex when you want to finish yourself.
I think your still stuck between “i want to lift big huge things in the gym” and " i want to look awesome on the beach this summer" and “I just want to feel a pump in the gym” modes. choose which you want.
Going after big numbers in the big three is not the optimol way to look good on the beach, similiary training for hypertrophy is not the best way to hit big numbers. Pick what you want. and do it… 2 rabbits and all that…
One final thing, If your going to be training to the extremes, learn how to foam roll and do it often. Learn how to warm up and cool down corrently aswell. Read a lot of Eric Cressey.
Scott
[quote]jbird643 wrote:
London Runner wrote:
So have you finished? Graduated, or just finished for the year?
LR
I’m in the midst of exams (1 of 6 completed) as we speak. After I finish the year, I have another year of school until I get my BSc (maths and economics). Did you study in London? I saw on your profile you’re an out of work banker; are you thinking about getting an additional degree in your time off?[/quote]
I went to Uni in Bournemouth (BA Hons Financial Servies). If I went to Uni in London, it meant that I would have had to stay at home with parents, which I really didn’t want to do.
I’m out of work at the moment because I need to take some of the updated MiFID professional exams for Regulations, Securities and Investment Management. I’m booked to do them next month, so I should be back into work by the Summer (hopefully).
LR
Thanks for all the input, Scott. One quick question: next to the exercises you listed, are all of the sets meant to be ‘work sets?’ For instance Bench/Incline Bench 5x5 would not be including my warm up sets or anything of that nature?
I definitely agree that I should not try to chase two rabbits. I would say my goal is 'functional hypertrophy.'Since I am a ‘novice’ by Rippetoe’s standards, I believe that I will be able to gain mass while training for strength. A year from now (probably closer to 2 or 3 but I can dream) I want to be able to perform better: in the weight room, on the basketball court, on the golf course and with the females haha.
What I DON’T want is to be a blocky unfunctional dolt who has to waddle instead of walk (think Jay Cutler).
In reality, I’m just pissed off that I’ve wasted a year of optimal growing time because I wanted to see my ‘hawt abz.’
I am thinking that if I continue to add weight to the bar and I don’t overboard with the diet I will be able to pack on some mass with little to no fat gain, since I’m physiologically a novice. I’m just going to train with intensity every time I get to the gym, and see where it gets me. Not training to failure is going to be an obstacle, but I will do my best.
Shoulder prehab is a must. Due to bad benching habits my right rotator cuff tends to flair up, so I always have to keep an eye on it.
I’m heading to GNC today to look for some protein/thermopure. No weights (see previous post about needing wheelchair), but probably some HIIT on the cross trainer:
1 min on, 1 min off
Repeat ten times
I try to get my HR up to 170 during the on periods. My resting HR is ~40BPM so 170 is fucking murder.
I’ll come up with more realistic end of year goals soon.
-J
Yea, usually i go bar x10, 60% x8, work weight x2-3 to test it out. then 5x5 for bench
Squat id go bar x20, pausing in hole, slow squats and explosive ones to warm up everything.
50% x8
60-70% x5
work weight x2-3 to again test it and then into it
Similiar system for deads. But find out what works for you.
Scott
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
Great idea to start a log. Ill be watching as youve been watching me.
I will second everything that has been said already. You do not need to loose fat… you need to stick on the muscle and the fat will drop off in the process.
On your aspirations for lifts… there VERY lofty in my opinion unless your a complete untrained beginner and what ur doing now is your starting point then maybe…
I was doign similiar weights to your workout that you posted about this time last year and im currently no where near your bench target, no where near your squat target and am probably 8 weeks from your deadlift target. Sorry to be a hard ass, but if you hit those by this time next year you will be doing very well.
To speed up the process i think you need to switch to a “powerlifting” orientated routine. Something like Sheiko, or west side for skinny bastards. Ive got a few Excel templates if you want me to email them…
Train your bench, dead and squat on different days. You could then throw in work on your pull up target on deadlift day… and that will help with benching too. I dont think a upper/lower split will get you to your goals any time soon.
This mightnt be to everyones tastes but id suggest you drop the bi/tri super sets, destroy your tris on bench day with close grip and another isolation exercise, do some bi work on deadlift day along with your pull ups. Drop the lateral raises. And i dont know what cable crunchs are… but for core work i would suggest ab pull downs standing and kneeling, palloff presses, weighted planks and a exercise we call “candle sticks” in our club.
For dropping the 5-10lbs of fat, simply clean up your diet, lower carbs and lift big, hard and often. But if you adopt one of the suggested routines then you will need to up your cals a bit. What do you currently aim for? use fitday.com daily. its an awesome resource.
A couple other pointers that i wished i had known way back when, film a lift from nearly every session. to check form constantly. I squated high for about 3 years and only found out when i posted a vid on here. MY deadlift technique is also suspect and im fixing it but i only found out when i joined the powerlifting club and they filmed a few lifts. I would still be thinking i squated and deaded fine if it wasnt for filming lifts.
As dave tate says, improving your technique can add pounds a lot faster than hammering away at the reps can. and poor form will lead to injuries which suck.
The meat and eggs in aldi and farm foods are CHEAP and great macro breakdowns. I was getting 3k calories a day, less than 40g carbs a day for 35 pounds a week. now its a bit cheaper as im going a bit lower.
Overall, when you get in the gym. Your there to go to work, not to talk to your mates, chat about football, attempt to impress the girls with your gym antics. Your there to lift iron, make yourself bleed, sweat, swear, gasp for air and throw up.
Don’t hate me when you finish reading this. 
Anything I can help with, ask.
Scott
[/quote]
I agree with this guy
[quote]jasmincar wrote:
I agree with this guy
[/quote]
Haha right on jasmincar. Any other tips you could provide me with?
Also, does anyone know where the recommendation to ingest 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM came from?
My hamstrings and glutes are very sore, and my lower back (posterior chain?) is definitely feeling it. I think the DOMS is going to be even worse tmrw. Gym is closed tmrw so I will probably just do a bunch of walking to help my legs recover. I might go on a slow run; we’ll see.
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
Yea, usually i go bar x10, 60% x8, work weight x2-3 to test it out. then 5x5 for bench
Squat id go bar x20, pausing in hole, slow squats and explosive ones to warm up everything.
50% x8
60-70% x5
work weight x2-3 to again test it and then into it
Similiar system for deads. But find out what works for you.
Scott
[/quote]
Thanks bro. I’m probably going to stick with the current routine until I get back to the states (~15 days), at which point in time I will adopt yours (or something similar). Did you do any type of stretching to help your depth on squats? It’s really difficult for me to get below parallel.
[quote]jbird643 wrote:
Also, does anyone know where the recommendation to ingest 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of LBM came from?
[/quote]
Years of experience would be my guess. It’s a general agreement across the board from any of the coaches who have real industry experience.
LR
Hmmm ok…I wish there was some scientific study showing it though, you know? Even though a lot of coaches agree on it, many others suggest .5 grams/lb. Looking forward to reading your report about the weekend LR.
Arms= 14.25 inches flexed
Waist=35 inches
The arm/waist ratio must increase!
[quote]jbird643 wrote:
thosebananas wrote:
Yea, usually i go bar x10, 60% x8, work weight x2-3 to test it out. then 5x5 for bench
Squat id go bar x20, pausing in hole, slow squats and explosive ones to warm up everything.
50% x8
60-70% x5
work weight x2-3 to again test it and then into it
Similiar system for deads. But find out what works for you.
Scott
Thanks bro. I’m probably going to stick with the current routine until I get back to the states (~15 days), at which point in time I will adopt yours (or something similar). Did you do any type of stretching to help your depth on squats? It’s really difficult for me to get below parallel.
[/quote]
For me depth got better with glute activation, hamstring stretchs and groin stretchs.
I generally walk fast to the gym, stretch before my bar x20, then stretch everything again between warm up sets. Getting deeper and deeper with each subsequent “stretch set”. I usually work bottom up, ankle mobility → calfs → hamstrings → Quads → Groin → Glutes → lower back and then general upper body.
So people also like to foam roll before. I prefer foam rolling my muscles the day after i used them. So i squat on monday, foam roll legs and back on tuesday, bench on wednesday and foam roll chest and arms on thursday etc etc. Like i said its best to learn through making mistakes and not sticking to something someone else does. If you think something else works better for you, by all means do it. Even if it is a placebo mental thing. Anything to lift bigger and better is good in my opinion.
Scott
and on the DOMS thing… Your body gets used to most workouts the third or fourth time you do the same thing, so the DOMs should decrease as your body gets used to it. For me it is now more of a “tight fatigue” as opposed to pain.
Scott
Ok-
thanks for all of your input. I will surely keep in mind what you’ve said, and try to improve my lifts in this way. hopefully it works.
could someone outline a standard meal plan for someone my size (74 inches) and my weight (190-195 lbs), on both training and non-training days? thanks for any input.
-J
Hi JBird, Just popping in to check out your log. I keep an eye on a few of the guys on here as you know. I would agree with Scott that your goals seem a bit of a stretch. I know only a couple of guys who have made that sort of improvement and they are now drug free world record holders. Now that I’ve posted I’ll check in on a regular basis and if there is anything you need feel free to PM me.
If you want a meal plan buy my brothers book (shameless plug). He is the online fitness editor for Menshealth and the book cost £7.50 but it will show you how to set your plan out. I used a strict version of it and am currently sitting at 8% bf (was 20% in Jan). I also helped write the book…
http://www.neilmct.com/neilmct-diet-plan.php?
All guys who buy the book get free email/forum support. Sorry for semi-spamming your thread. Just wanted you to know about our service.
Either way I’ll try and chime in when appropiate.
Good luck with your goals
Cheers
Gary
Gary-
I don’t consider that spam at all! For £7.50 it sounds like a steal, considering the forum support. I may pick up a copy considering the major role diet plays.
My goals are definitely a stretch and I won’t be dissapointed if I do not reach them by the end of the year. My main goal is to drastically change the way I perceive lifting weights so that I can eventually lift really heavy shit. It may not be by the end of the year, but I will get those numbers up.
Today the gym’s closed (f-ing bank holidays…), so I’m gonna do a lot of walking, some stretching and some bw exercises (pushups and squats).
-J
This fucking posting service sucks. I just typed out a huge post and it all got deleted. Fuck.
I had a great session in the gym today, with a lot of DOMS expected for tomorrow. Also, I have two exams on Thurs, so until I get those over with I will probably remain dormant. Expect Pics on Sat.
-J
[quote]jbird643 wrote:
This fucking posting service sucks. I just typed out a huge post and it all got deleted. Fuck.
I had a great session in the gym today, with a lot of DOMS expected for tomorrow. Also, I have two exams on Thurs, so until I get those over with I will probably remain dormant. Expect Pics on Sat.
-J[/quote]
The posting service is fucked up atm…
Dont get too hung up on “trying to get DOMS” just saying.
Scott
[quote]thosebananas wrote:
Dont get too hung up on “trying to get DOMS” just saying.
Scott[/quote]
I won’t, but I know I busted my ass in the gym today and DOMS will surely result. I’m definitely more concerned with increasing my strength in all of my lifts. I improved in everything today. I’m not sure if it was due to CNS adaptation (I have not been lifting to a steady program for long), or muscle hypertrophy, but it felt good to increase the poundage. Hoepfully I will be able to say the same thing about my lower body session on Thursday.
Did a load of stretching/foam rolling (per Scott’s/B’s recommendation), and found that it helped with lower body soreness. It’s really hard to foam roll your pecs without looking like someone from “The Birdcage” though…
Does anyone have a study citing DOMS not leading to muscle hypertrophy or increased strength?
IM unexperienced O, I’ve found that soreness always results in increased strength and growth.
PS for those interested, the Journal of Applied Physiology has loads of articles concerning anything related to T-Nation. Check it out: http://jap.physiology.org/ . Any article that gets published has been approved by an objective audience, so it may be one of the best sources of info on the web. All the abstracts are free.
-J
EDIT: No DOMS today. I did some extreme stretching immediately after the lift, and I think this really helped. I will continue this protocal.
I have an exam at 10 AM (2 HR) followed by another at 14:30 (3 HR). Wish me luck.
Training legs with B tomorrow night. So fucking pumped for this.
-J
Good luck mate, just don’t be tempted to go out drinking after your exams, otherwise you’ll have a shitty legs day tomorrow.
LR