Getting Back on TRT and Want to Add On…

Background: I was on TRT for 3 years and came off about a year ago for fertility. That was successful and now i would like to get back on. In 2018 I had an illness that wrecked my hormone levels.

Former athlete. A few years ago i was 6-1 193 and that is typically my weight. I have lost around 25# over 2020-2021 (i slipped a disc and then the lockdowns)

Goals: better mood, more energy, faster recovery, and add healthy lean mass.

Rx: Doc initially wanted me on 200 cyp a week and 5000 iu of hcg but I opted to just use the test and at 125/Wk. My body clearly needed it.

After a year I added primo and ran 200-300/Wk for 18 months. My goal here was to get the “feel good” effect so many describe when getting on trt. Test never gave me that.

Bloodwork showed the promo add on was a sweet spot: 1100 test, 22 estrogen, and SHBG was low so free test was high. I never took an aI on this combo

I have read a lot of guys are using deca or NPP as either a base or add on for trt and it gives them better recovery and helps their joints. I’ve never tried either and would like input on adding this. Appreciate any info.

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I’d run the higher dose of Test instead of Deca or NPP. So instead of 125 mg/wk of Test and an addition of Deca or NPP, I’d just run 200 or 250 mg/wk Test (so long as lab work looks good, which it should be compared to Test plus another compound).

If you need help with joints or recovery, I’d had HGH if I am doing this as a forever protocol. I just wouldn’t be comfortable with running Primo, Deca or NPP long term.

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First, your username is awesome. Second, there is no ‘add on’ to TRT. TRT is using replacement doses of testosterone. Anything else is cycling steroids and will have a negative impact to your health. Symantics aside, I’ve found DHT drugs like Primo and Mast to be the best for well being, libido, etc. Bad on the hair line though. 19-nors such as Nandrolone (Deca) and Tren, while highly effective muscle building, cause more mental sides and libido issues. The way you roll the dice is a personal choice.

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Interesting. I have thought about adding hgh

What are your concerns about primo if the weekly dose is low?

How does mast make you feel? Never tried it? Haven’t done much research.

Mostly lipid profile with Primo. It will likely make HDL lower and LDL higher. Also, as @blshaw mentioned the hairline.

You know what’s weird. In my search to get a “feel good” mood lift I tried low dose anavar for 2 days (this was prior to trying primo). I was under the assumption that both were relatively “side free”

On day 2 of anavar I started a huge shed that lasted close to a week. Hair coming out by the handfuls.

On primo that never happened. It appeared that my hair actually got a good bit thicker over that time span. I thought this was odd since they are both dht derivatives

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How are your lipids on Primo? 200-300 mg/wk certainly isn’t high, but I’d guess for most that lipids would be pretty terrible long term (I’d say the same for Mast).

Anavar can do this, but I’d be suspicious that you got Winny not Anavar with that quick of shedding. Was it UGL, or Pharma / Compounded Anavar?

About the same as Primo. I never ran more than 200-300mg. In the years I dabbled with PEDs I usually kept things moderate.

It was not pharma, but from a well known source I would assume to be legit

I did some digging to find my old lipid panel

these readings are from April of 2022. Ranges are in (parentheses). My previous labs [in brackets] were from Sept of 2021. I ran low dose primo from about the beginning of 2020 to end of 2022. I was not working out when these were taken (slipped disc + covid lockdowns, if that matters)

tot cholesterol 175 [previous reading 178] (100-199)
triglycerides 62 [previous reading 71 ] (0 - 149)
HDL 53 [previous reading 46] (>39)
VLDL 12 [previous reading 13] (5 - 40)
LDL Chol Calc 110 [previous reading 119] (0 - 99)

The only “high” reading was my LDL and it appeared to be slightly above range and steady.

For years I have have slightly high creatine, slightly high bilirubin, and slightly high LDL, with slightly low eGFR … I have always been a lean guy with no significant body fat (never had a chubby stage as a kid and always a hard gainer as an adult) and I have read that people with this body type tend to have slightly high creatine readings. If you have any feedback on this or on the blood work, please share.

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That blood work is awesome for being on TRT and 200-300 mg/wk of Primo. It is better than mine just on TRT.

Most lifters have high creatinine and that impacts eGFR (it is a calculated value that uses creatinine). If you are worried about kidney health, I’d suggest you get an eGFR that uses cystatin C.

I am outside of what is normal for muscle mass, the creatinine based eGFR was low for me as well. I did some looking and the cystatin C test is not impacted by muscle mass. I paid for one of those tests, and my kidney function looked a lot better.

Is your / was your blood pressure normal or better while on the primo? If so, and with the blood work, I personally wouldn’t be too worried about health with that protocol. For me, the downside is that I am afraid of primo because what it does to some guy’s hairline. I wouldn’t care about the cost and would use it if I had good blood work, good BP, and it didn’t impact my hair.

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Appreciate the info @mnben87

I am going to add that test to my panel

I realize everyone is different, and primo worked extremely well for me. BP was fine.
I wanted to add primo for the “feel good” effect a lot of guys rave about on TRT. I never got that. After 18 months of test solo I tried to add another compound to help guve me a mood boost. I tested the primo and it was legit. ran that for 18 months before coming off trt to get fertile again and start a family. The entire time I ran trt (even with primo) I never got that surge of energy or mood lift. My body looked amazing. My bloodwork was great. Strong in the gym. I had a cool new vascularity that I had never had before, and overall I was happy with my trt efforts (I got on trt initially due to an illness that wrecked my hormone profile and caused me to lose a lot of weight)… but, here is the weird part: at one point I decided to try low dose anavar. I read that both primo and var were the “safest” to try at least from a sides perspective, and primo had treated me very well. 2 days in to var and my hair was coming out by the handfuls. I stopped immediately and never took it again. After a few days the shed calmed down and I kept the trt in the 125 test + 200 ish primo range moving forward.

I may have asked this before - but have you looked into NPP? Have you cycled it before or run this in conjunction with TRT? Recently as I have been doing my homework on “TRT 2.0” I have sen a lot of guys either add this to TRT for joint health and energy, or use it as a base in place of test … thats a new one for me.

I have not used NPP or Deca (same hormone, different ester). Some do great on it. Some report mental or libido / ED sides with it. It is a great BBing / strength drug. I am kinda at the point that I am not interested in experimenting much. I have done Anavar and Tbol in the past, and Anadrol, but that was for about 2 days and my acid reflux was too intense for me.

I am probably sticking with Test at this point for AAS. I like it because I don’t get much negative sides with it if I use a 5 AR inhibitor (finasteride or dutasteride). I started on finasteride, but I’ve found a way to get cheap dutasteride now with an Rx, and I don’t get any noticeable sides with it. I am not prone to estrogenic sides it seems, so high Test works for me. I could get better results with other compounds, but it isn’t worth the trade offs for me.

If I was looking to add more PEDs, I’d probably go with something that isn’t an AAS. HGH is likely something I’ll do in the future. My IGF-1 on my labs is always very close to bottom of the range, so I feel like I’d benefit more than most would from optimization doses (~2 iu / day). I’ve also used semaglutide as a PED. Works well for getting lean (which you don’t need). I am the leanest I’ve been in a long time (on it currently). I could get sorta lean before, but it has helped me to get to that next level of leanness that I’ve wanted to achieve.

I am in the same boat. I’d like to find a steady, side free combo and go from there

Test and primo are clearly a winner for me, but I would like to find that energy / mood boost that’s eluded me. I would like to at least try NPP (50mg?) to see if that helps with joints and energy. Hgh is my next step. I was thinking 2IU a day.

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TBH, I have heard lots of guys say the energy or mood boost is not there (myself included). I think it’s over hyped because of the internet. Guys hoping on their first cycle saying they feel like superman type thing. I think many feel something initially, but long term TRT or blast and cruise guys typically don’t feel the energy / mood benefits. I think a lot of guys have a belief that being on gear is like being on stimulants. It isn’t IME, or really anyone I know.

I will say that while on blast, anxiety seems a bit lower. But this is pretty subjective. It isn’t a huge difference. Just something I’ve noticed. I still struggle to get out of bed while blasting.

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My understanding is that while NPP / Deca can make joints feel better, it doesn’t actually heal them. I would look at underlying causes as to why you’re experiencing joint pain. Also, things like eliminating certain exercises, lowering overall volume and intensity, regular deloads, or correcting technique, are some options you can try to see if they help your joints.

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@blshaw I have read a lot of guys say high doses of NPP or Deca can easily cause depression in some … any idea why that is? Whats the mechanism there?

Also - is there a threshold you have seen that would be the tipping point (I know thats a subjective question). I did very well on test and primo, but as my joints begin to ache more as I age, I was thinking of adding a small dose (50/wk to begin?) of NPP just to see if that helps

Last question - can you give me some more insight to how Mast has treated you over the years? Whats the typical dose and timeline when you use it? wet or dry? how does it “feel” etc etc

Thank you

I believe it’s the effect on dopamine, GABA, and reward pathways.

All 19-Nor compounds affected my mood negatively and caused ED even in small doses.

People all react differently. I can’t handle small doses well and others can inject a gallon without affect.

I used as a libido enhancer back when I was cycling. Didn’t seem to make any noticeable changes in the range I ran it 2-300mg/we alongside Test.

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Closest I got to this was with Anadrol. Amazing drive and energy if taken pre-workout. If I took it in the AM on an off day I’d be itching to get into the gym. I don’t feel that on test, var, primo, Tbol. I know it’s very toxic, but taken only on lifting days, 3-4 days a week, can’t beat it IMO

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