I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
A 9 minute mile pace is not that fast, that is a VERY achievable goal.
However, I think a good way to approach this would be to work on your speed over a few miles until you get closer to your goal. For example, if you can run 4 miles at a 9 minute pace now, work until you can run 3-4 miles at a 7-8 minute pace.
At this point, you may even just want to start working your ONE mile pace, and doing shorter track workouts, like 400m and 800m runs and the like. This will greatly improve your overall fitness to make it easier to achieve your goal later, while making it a lot easier to get stronger/bigger.
Whatever you do, DO NOT start trying to add lots and lots of miles per week to try to gain endurance while you are still trying to gain muscle mass, as this obviously might make it difficult to gain any weight at all.
[quote]slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.[/quote]
why would you post this, this question has been asked a million times before. search for it, in fact you can just scroll through the pages of posts i bet you dont have to look through more than three before you see another five questions like this.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.
why would you post this, this question has been asked a million times before. search for it, in fact you can just scroll through the pages of posts i bet you dont have to look through more than three before you see another five questions like this.[/quote]
look go to the thread under you that says gains in five months
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.
why would you post this, this question has been asked a million times before. search for it, in fact you can just scroll through the pages of posts i bet you dont have to look through more than three before you see another five questions like this.
look go to the thread under you that says gains in five months[/quote]
Are you stupid? That thread has nothing to do with running, let alone running 10 miles.
[quote]slickid wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.
why would you post this, this question has been asked a million times before. search for it, in fact you can just scroll through the pages of posts i bet you dont have to look through more than three before you see another five questions like this.
look go to the thread under you that says gains in five months
Are you stupid? That thread has nothing to do with running, let alone running 10 miles.
Go bash somewhere else noob.
[/quote]
im saying that it has already been asked about losing fat and gaining muscle. oh and nice insult what are you like fifteen.
[quote]slickid wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.
why would you post this, this question has been asked a million times before. search for it, in fact you can just scroll through the pages of posts i bet you dont have to look through more than three before you see another five questions like this.
look go to the thread under you that says gains in five months
Are you stupid? That thread has nothing to do with running, let alone running 10 miles.
Go bash somewhere else noob.
[/quote]
why must every thread be reduced to name calling, the only one i’ve ever been in that lasted a long way and never name called was the overtraining poll thread.
[quote]andrew0830 wrote:
A 9 minute mile pace is not that fast, that is a VERY achievable goal.
However, I think a good way to approach this would be to work on your speed over a few miles until you get closer to your goal. For example, if you can run 4 miles at a 9 minute pace now, work until you can run 3-4 miles at a 7-8 minute pace.
At this point, you may even just want to start working your ONE mile pace, and doing shorter track workouts, like 400m and 800m runs and the like. This will greatly improve your overall fitness to make it easier to achieve your goal later, while making it a lot easier to get stronger/bigger.
Whatever you do, DO NOT start trying to add lots and lots of miles per week to try to gain endurance while you are still trying to gain muscle mass, as this obviously might make it difficult to gain any weight at all.[/quote]
Agree with Andrew’s points. I participated in a marathon last fall while trying to keep my size (although not really that big). In addition to running faster, I’ve also started sled draggging while power walking or running. I believe the key is to do one longer run a week and do higher intensity work during the week if you want to build/keep muscle.
[quote]john2009 wrote:
andrew0830 wrote:
A 9 minute mile pace is not that fast, that is a VERY achievable goal.
However, I think a good way to approach this would be to work on your speed over a few miles until you get closer to your goal. For example, if you can run 4 miles at a 9 minute pace now, work until you can run 3-4 miles at a 7-8 minute pace.
At this point, you may even just want to start working your ONE mile pace, and doing shorter track workouts, like 400m and 800m runs and the like. This will greatly improve your overall fitness to make it easier to achieve your goal later, while making it a lot easier to get stronger/bigger.
Whatever you do, DO NOT start trying to add lots and lots of miles per week to try to gain endurance while you are still trying to gain muscle mass, as this obviously might make it difficult to gain any weight at all.
Agree with Andrew’s points. I participated in a marathon last fall while trying to keep my size (although not really that big). In addition to running faster, I’ve also started sled draggging while power walking or running. I believe the key is to do one longer run a week and do higher intensity work during the week if you want to build/keep muscle.
[/quote]
I ran a half marathon recently at 215, though I’d prefer to be around 195ish at 6’1". That would put me around 10-11% BF. I ran the first 5 miles in around a 10min/mile pace, and went downhill from there, but I don’t work on my running all that much in the winter. I’d say it’s a very achieveable goal, so go for it.
I’ve been in and out of this thread a few times a bit hesitant to say anything, but everybody so far is telling how possible it is to achieve your running goals, but not addressing if you can do that while gaining anything like significant muscle at the same time.
While I’m not going come right out and use the word impossible it’s awfully tempting. I’d really like to hear how someone got big while training for and running marathons. Even on 10,000 calories a day.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I’ve been in and out of this thread a few times a bit hesitant to say anything, but everybody so far is telling how possible it is to achieve your running goals, but not addressing if you can do that while gaining anything like significant muscle at the same time.
While I’m not going come right out and use the word impossible it’s awfully tempting. I’d really like to hear how someone got big while training for and running marathons. Even on 10,000 calories a day.
That would be one confused metabolism.[/quote]
I agree it would be impossible to be an elite marathoner and an elite powerlifter or bodybuilder. It looks like the original poster just wants to be able to do some middle distance running at a recreational pace (to build their cardio, participate in an activity with a friend, etc), and it doesn’t sound like they’re planning to compete in a strength based activity.
Just sounds like they want to balance both. Anyone that wants to do something like this needs to realize there is some compromise in both areas required and determine how to minimize the compromise required.
Exactly. I will never be competitive in marathons nor do I want to be. However, I’d like to be able to do some decent distances at a decent pace, while also gaining muscle.
I’ve had very similar goals to the OP for a couple months now and so far so good - bf% is down, but measurements are the same or bigger - ergo muscle increase. Now, my running still sucks but it’s improving, which is all I want.
[quote]john2009 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I’ve been in and out of this thread a few times a bit hesitant to say anything, but everybody so far is telling how possible it is to achieve your running goals, but not addressing if you can do that while gaining anything like significant muscle at the same time.
While I’m not going come right out and use the word impossible it’s awfully tempting. I’d really like to hear how someone got big while training for and running marathons. Even on 10,000 calories a day.
That would be one confused metabolism.
I agree it would be impossible to be an elite marathoner and an elite powerlifter or bodybuilder. It looks like the original poster just wants to be able to do some middle distance running at a recreational pace (to build their cardio, participate in an activity with a friend, etc), and it doesn’t sound like they’re planning to compete in a strength based activity.
Just sounds like they want to balance both. Anyone that wants to do something like this needs to realize there is some compromise in both areas required and determine how to minimize the compromise required.
[/quote]
It will be difficult at best to achieve both of these goal simultaneously.
I ran a marathon 4 years ago for a charity. I started at a weight of 225 and lifted to maintain my muscle mass. I tried to take in enough calories, but in the end I weighed in at around 208 and had lost a fair amount of LBM. I was doing 4 runs per week : a short run, a medium run, another short run and a long run each week (e.g. 5 miles, 10 miles, 5 miles and 20 miles). I was lifting 3-4 times/week focusing only on my big compound movements (squats, deads, bench, military, pulldowns, etc).
Maybe you’ll have better luck than I did, but I don’t think you’ll find a lot of people who have successfully trained for a marathon while bulking.
If this isn’t impossible, its close. Ignoring all scientific/technical speak, think about it this way: You know or ever hear of anyone who can run distances like that and weigh in at your goal weight? I sure haven’t. Doesn’t mean these people don’t exist, but if they do, they are extremely rare.
At those distances, I don’t doubt anyone would have a hard time! I don’t hit anywhere near those distances. I spend most of my running time as HIIT and short duration. I spend time trying to get a 1-2 mile run over with as fast as possible. Then I do 1-2 longer runs - 5k-10k max. I’ve been able to significantly increase running strength/endurance and decrease overall time without having to put myself in such a catabolic state.
Plus, the OP isn’t looking to do marathons, just 10 mile stretches at speed.
[quote]Modi wrote:
It will be difficult at best to achieve both of these goal simultaneously.
I ran a marathon 4 years ago for a charity. I started at a weight of 225 and lifted to maintain my muscle mass. I tried to take in enough calories, but in the end I weighed in at around 208 and had lost a fair amount of LBM. I was doing 4 runs per week : a short run, a medium run, another short run and a long run each week (e.g. 5 miles, 10 miles, 5 miles and 20 miles). I was lifting 3-4 times/week focusing only on my big compound movements (squats, deads, bench, military, pulldowns, etc).
Maybe you’ll have better luck than I did, but I don’t think you’ll find a lot of people who have successfully trained for a marathon while bulking.[/quote]
[quote]slickid wrote:
I have a question for all of you.
I have 2 goals right now. First of which is to weigh in at 210 with 12% bf (I’m about 16lbs of lean mass and 5% away) and the second of which is to be able to run 10 miles at about 9min/mile pace. Right now I can do about 4 miles.
The question is, are these goals anywhere near compatible with each other? Or am I chasing a ghost?
I’m really working on eating right so hopefully my body has enough fuel, but is there hope or are the two heading in directions so different that I wont be able to attain both?
Your advice is appreciated.
If it matters, I’m about 5’10 200ish.[/quote]
Here is my two cents:
It looks like these are relatively long term goals. So, while I would agree with many people that the goals are incompatible in the short term (gaining muscle while losing fat/training for endurance sports), I would also argue that if planned right you can accomplish these goals more efficiently in the long term if you plan them together.
I would suggest staggering your training, focus on improving your running while maintaining your lean body mass and vice versa (maintaining your cardiovascular fitness while putting on mass). Maybe have a four week period focused on running (a mixture of HIIT, and distance running) while only lifting two or three days a week.
Then switch it up and switch to a hypertrophy plan with maybe two days of running a week. If at any point your progress stagnates in one area, or you start making unacceptable losses in the you can always switch it up.
I don’t think focusing on meeting one goal at the expense of the other is the best way to go. To me, bulking for 16 weeks and then suddenly taking up running does not seem like an intelligent plan.
I’m not sure how I got the marathon thing in my head, but he does indeed say 10 miles which is a substantially different story. While still difficult it lands the proposition much more squarely in the realm of reality.
When I was training very hard in my late 20’s and gaining steadily I used to do 10 mile runs every few months just to do it. My overall fitness level allowed me to do it without even any specific effort. I never timed myself, but I’m pretty confident 9 minute miles isn’t out of the question for what I was doing.
Just finishing a marathon is another story altogether. I did it in high school (Detroit Free Press International Marathon) while partying hard during that time and 14 miles was my furthest out beforehand. I finished it, but it damn near killed me and I couldn’t bend my legs for 4 days. Ahh… to be young again.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
When I was training very hard in my late 20’s and gaining steadily I used to do 10 mile runs every few months just to do it.[/quote]
Wasn’t that like a really long time ago?
Yeah, I missed the 10 mile part as well, but that’s still a lot of extra calories to take in to offset the expenditure.