What a cop out, you attempt a personal attack to avoid answering the questions.
A pathetic attempt, you’re not fooling anyone including yourself.
Oh, it was a hellscape for sure, covered in the veneer of a ‘happy-hippy, go free-free’ zone. The pictures of how trashed the whole area was, was not surprising, but awful. That was a dystopia, by definition.
What in the heck is wrong with the Mayor?
Why does the repudiation of these people feel a bit blunted? Muted? I just can’t help but shake the feeling that the left wing nature of this violence and destruction…Well, I mean to say that the press would spend every single day connecting this militancy to right thinking rhetoric and thought. There should be a loud unanimous and constant mainstream denunciation day in and day out.
This is disgusting and it is beyond time to shut this kind of crap down.
He is a coward, along with the Governor.
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DHS was called into Portland to protect Federal property during the protests and late night riots. Totally fair, federal agency protecting federal properties.
Now for the scary part: Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms : NPR
Speaking to NPR’s All Things Considered on Friday, Homeland Security Acting Deputy Secretary Ken Cuccinelli acknowledged that federal agents had used unmarked vehicles to pick up people in Portland but said it was done to keep officers safe and away from crowds and to move detainees to a “safe location for questioning”… “The one instance I’m familiar with …upon questioning, they determined they did not have the right person and that person was released,” Cuccinelli said
Agents are also now not wearing anything with their names (because of the threat of doxxing). I understand that threat, but that is very concerning as well.
Some very Orwellian stuff is happening in PDX it sounds like. widespread political unrest amongst the citizens and violent riots nightly. Federal agents with no names in unmarked cars snatching citizens off the streets and taking them to undisclosed locations for interrogation based off unreliable observations made at night in a crowded hectic space.
One thing to keep in mind is that Oregon, more so than any other state i know of, has polar opposite political and cultural leanings. Its a tough political environment when the scales are weighted so heavily at each end, and the middle is so relatively light.
You’re right that it doesn’t sound good, but can you suggest another way to handle the situation? If they wear name tags then maybe a mob of leftist fanatics will attack their home and family, if they drive marked cars then the cars will be attacked in the street (look how many cop cars got burned and smashed up), and if they tell people where they are taking these poor innocent peaceful protestors then you can be sure that will be the next spot for a riot.
The cops/feds seem to be very restrained, in most other countries they would beat the crap out of everyone if not open fire on the crowd. Remember how that occupy Wall Street thing ended and how many people got hurt? That protest seemed to have some for of legitimacy too, this is just an ongoing riot.
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Time to shut this stuff down. We have mobs attacking and burning federal property, private property, police stations, drivers, counter-protestors, etc. This is terrorism.
Just damn, I see our property, the public’s property (federal court house) and see it under assault. Scarred and marked with burns. And, looking like a men’s restroom in some gangland ghetto what with all the graffiti. These people are the enemy of order.
Thats the thing, i don’t see a good way to handle this. The laws are such that if they arrest everyone for unlawful assembly, those folks are back out the next night. They cannot arrest everyone for assault etc, because it is nearly impossible to prove who did what, when, and it would overload the system in PDX. If the cops start smashing skulls, that is a huge “rights” and use of force problem. But cops should be able to protect themselves, or at least not be subject to organized, unrestricted violence. This no-win situation is largely why Seattle PD pulled out of cap hill, and is why PDX continues to be stuck in protest/riot limbo.
the Oregon Attorney General is suing DHS for overstepping their authority essentially, and the state of OR will not be onboard with Federal officers moving in to control rioters/protestors. But it doesnt seem like the protestors have any leadership or any unified specific demands that the govt could give in to, or negotiate on to appease them. But its only a small percentage of the protesting crowd that is being violent/destructive (though a significant portion), so you cant have widespread skullbashing and arrests for “real” crimes, and the criminals can hide in plain sight because everyone is wearing black and has a facemask on.
What can be done though? I don’t see a good way forward.
Go soft and the rioters/protestors keep causing damage and violence.
Go hard and you have a massive civil rights issue on your hands as plenty of innocent people will be caught up in the skullcracking, not to mention it will up the ante for violence from the protesters/rioters against the local and federal officers.
Keep the status quo and hope the rioters/protesters just tire themselves out while we try and limit property damage, physical violence, and rights violations.
They are terrorists, not protestors. They don’t even know what they are protesting. Burn it all down is not a political position.
Go hard soon after it turns into a riot. Innocent law-abiding protestors will leave the area shortly after a riot has commenced and the police have issued warnings to disperse. If not, well there is a point where ones lack of self preservation should not hold the rest of civil society hostage. If you refuse to depart once the fence tearing, brick hurling, and arson begins than you have decided to assume any and all risk. To suggest otherwise is to play the human shield for the terrorists.
Everytime an officer strikes an unarmed (looking) person in the vicinity of the rioters/protesters scattering that would be a lawsuit, and strike on the officers record. Everything is on video these days, and plenty of lawyers looking to sue… and plenty of folks looking to be martyrs. No to mention, a heavy handed approach will probably up the willingness to use more extreme violence on the rioters/protesters side… at which point i would assume marshall law would have to be instituted. Which may be met with resistance by the peaceful protest contingent that is far more numerous but has typically gone home at dinner time before the antifa rioters come out.
Maybe that is the solution though. Institute marshall law and curfew in PDX for a week. Does a relatively small amount of property damage and relatively small amount of violence really necessitate marshall law though? Thats a hefty precedent to set. And is no guarantee that it would work at all.
Doesnt seem like there are any good options. Every option has some very likely bad repercussions, but at some point the authorities need to do something… doing nothing is the route they are going with for now, and there arent signs of the rioters slowing down as far as i can tell.
I’m not a lawyer, but there must be some way to deal with this. If you are with a group of people and one of them commits whatever crime, assault or vandalism or whatever, then you can be charged as a party to the offence. I don’t see why the same can’t be done here. Sure it would overload any one city (PDX is Portland?) but the feds are involved and they have plenty of holding centres and such. Sports are shut down, they cold be held in a stadium.
That’s the problem, how can you handle the situation with people like that in charge? The whole state is fucked. Maybe if non-insane people left and filed a class action suit against teh state for failing to protect them and their property there would be some results.
The cops here are stuck in a very awkward situation, they are being attacked but can’t really fight back and the politicians in charge are more or less siding with the rioters, I’m suprised they are still showing up to work. If they walked off the job, or maybe led a “peaceful protest” at the homes of the mayor and governor that would get some attention.
The US government should start an exchange program with Cuba, China, and North Korea. Plenty of people there want to leave and are willing to work and behave like normal people, bring some of them here and send the Marxist radicals to the communist utopia of their dreams.
There are numerous lawsuits on numerous levels associated with this plan of action. Not to mention the optics of the feds rounding up any american citizens peacefully protesting in the vicinity of rioters en mass and holding them at gunpoint in a sports arena commandeered by the federal government.
Telling the feds to butt-out is not a leftist position. Thats pretty libertarian/right. And from the sounds of it all DHS did overstep their authority.
I am surprised that PDX cops havent been more active in lobbying for support from politicians, or at least a clear direction from politicians. Or, maybe their PR person just isnt getting the word out? Stuck in a real tough spot for sure. Just stand there and take it are the orders… ugh.
They should do absolutely no such thing with these riots. Absolutely never. These are not peaceful protests.
I understand the rest of you post and can agree with much of it, but not this part.
In a vacuum, you’re right. In a US jurisdiction where local authorities fail at the most basic expectations of government, it starts looking sensible.
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Is ironically, also a libertarian/far right position. Ron Swanson worked his whole career in Pawnee to encourage failure of the most basic expectations of government.
As for starting to look sensible… IDK. if the level of damage and disruption currently happening is not enough to cause any significant action at the local or state level, it would seem that federal help is not needed. Its not a manpower/resource issue, its a want issue at the state and local levels. IMO, the feds shouldnt get involved until the local and state resources are not enough or the citizenry is calling for help.
Here’s something i haven’t heard talked about: are insurance companies going to sue the City of PDX? Business owners are going to have insurance pay for any damage from these riots…and insurance companies are always looking to weasel out of paying… so i would think they are looking to recover damages from the City for allowing the riots to continue happening.
I’m not saying its the right way to go, just saying that would be an option if there was leadership or a defined policy position… but that isnt even an option in this situation.
Humor derail for you two - read first 2 comments.
Guess we should have a pwi thread extolling the virtues of rock over metal
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