George Floyd Riots

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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I didn’t see you come to the defence of how good America is relative to the rest of the world. You still haven’t expressed that.

Its very relevant in the context of what I wrote, about where people would get treated better regarding human or legal rights. It wakes you up from your self satisfied woe is me, America, is full of Nazis and racists expressing their opinions with freedom of speech. Passive aggressive fence sitters such as yourself don’t realise how good they have it unless they see a comparison with the rest of the world to give them some kind of perspective. So that’s pretty relevant, you just don’t like the bitter taste of the medicine.
Your more likely to get a shit ton justice in a court in America than you would ever get in one of the other countries you mention. Why don’t you go out and do something positive in the real world, if you want to fight for social justice of a minority group, rather than complaining to me over the internet? Or is it all too hard to do this in America because you got it so bad there, and the systems against you man?

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One struggle does not detract from another.

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Local update, cops unloaded bean bags on a line of peaceful protesters, then gassed them.

Now shits on fire.

Surprise.

**fires that were apparently started by white supremacists. No video, cant confirm, but being talked about like common knowledge. Seems almost cartoonishly convenient, but incredibly fucked if true.

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I live in America you don’t. I don’t need to be told that America is a good place to live and I don’t need to proclaim that it is a good place to live in a thread about this. I called your comments irrelevant because they were and you said I could spare you the America is the worst in the world which I never said. Why would I come to the defense (we use an s here in America) of America when it isn’t needed? Why does America need defended simply because you want to talk about the Middle East or some other unrelated thing?

Pointing out the foolishness of you demanding that people talk about other things isn’t me hating on America. You don’t know much about America and I had to inform you of a lot in the last thread about it.

But what you do know about it and insist on wanting to talk about in this isn’t relevant. You can keep saying how much it is and how much people apparently need to acknowledge it or something but that doesn’t make it so. I’ll ask again do you think when OP started this that his thought process was “I’d like to see what people think about this incident, but hopefully someone will want to talk about the Middle East instead.”

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Dude with a name of chaoshander, are you an anarchist? (just kidding:)

In one sense you are right, its all relative to the person going through the experience.

But to put it in perspective that’s not race based . As a poor person would you rather have a serious health issue in a third word country, or as a poor person in America. Its still going to be bad in both places but you have a better likelihood of a positive outcome, in America. I hear the witch doctors are better in America too.

Apply the same perspective to just about any issue legal and human rights, you got a better likely outcome in the States.

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No it doesn’t because I don’t feel that way. You clearly (from previous threads) want to paint everyone with that brush which is why in previous threads you’ve talked about how racism is Marxist gaslighting or something.

What fence am I sitting on? I know we have it pretty good haven’t said otherwise. Doesn’t mean I don’t want us to be better.

No it’s not relevant and you’re attempting to mold into your view of how you want to paint certain people as.

Ok. Did I say otherwise? Did anyone else?

I do plenty of positive real world things. Maybe you should start? I think me educating you in previous threads hasn’t been all bad. Obviously I don’t get real far but you learned a lot about American immigration last time at least and we cleared you up in numerous areas that you didn’t understand.

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Fwiw got a text from my buddy today who is Portland FD, and he said it was the Proud Boys fuckheads vs antifa BS that started fires and damaged storefronts a few hours after protestors went home last night. YMMV, depending on the city and night.

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It’s simply the same people who want to diminish the struggles of others. Most of these people are fine with the status quo and a lot of them actually miss the “good old days” when things were a little whiter. Is it shocking that the guy talking about this also talked about how horrible a shrinking white majority was?

“God damn we gave them food what else do they want? God damn we freed them what else do they want? God damn we let them vote what else do they want? God damn we let them sit on a bus where they want what else do they want? God damn we let them go to school with white kids what else do they want? God damn it’s better for them here than in Iran what else do they want?”

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I can imagine the steam pouring out of your ears, its quite amusing.

And yes you do need to be told that America is a good place to live, because you still seriously lack an international perspective to compare with. You’re so arrogant you think America is the centre of the universe, all that matters is your experience and perspective, and are ignorant or don’t care what happens in the rest of the world, or that you might actually learn something you could apply to your own country.

Consider yourself told.

I probably know more about American history, law, and culture than quite a few Americans, and admire a lot about it and its people in general. I don’t take it for granted because I don’t live there, I actually choose to go out of my way to learn about it.
Massive fan of the American constitution, its the best piece of legislation in the history of mankind, for human rights. It applies to citizens of all races equally that live in America. H’mm how racist is that?

I wouldn’t know(or really care) what positive things you do or don’t do in the real world. You do seem to do a lot of whinging rather than give examples of how you’ve tried to fix things you see as an issue.
You have no idea what I do in my community and I’m positive you don’t care either. So you are wasting more of your time debating me whilst I’m having a real hoot doing so.

You have done very little to educate me on American immigration, that’s your arrogance shining through again. You can give me any information you want but in the end its me that gets decide what I think about them(I will try to be fair, consider them, but I will come to my own conclusions, so don’t get too butthurt if I disagree with your opinion).

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You are happy to settle for the status quo because it is better than in other places.

America doesn’t settle. You know nothing about what makes America great.

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Much like everything you’re attributing to me I couldn’t be more calm. I’ve already shown you multiple times that the things you want to talk about in her don’t matter to what’s being discussed. And others have pointed out. Now you’re acting like a child saying “no it is important everyone!”

Lol another thing you invented. Where exactly did I say America was the centre of the world? Where are you getting the idea I don’t care about the rest of the world? I’ve simply said the OP is talking about an incident that is happening in America. Which is true. You apparently want to talk about other things not related to the OP. Consider yourself a told.

I’m sure you do. Most Americans don’t.

Wonder why you told me to do something positive then?

Well for one thing I acknowledge the issues we have. You seem to want me to loudly proclaim that we should all acknowledge how much other places suck. Which is fine I guess, but not relevant to the thread.

I cleared up a lot of your misconceptions. I’m sorry if pointing out that you were wrong in that thread and in this one comes off as arrogance.

Ok. I simply pointed out that you are determined to talk about things that aren’t relevant. You seem determined to continue to do so. And you seem determined to continue to invent positions I haven’t taken.

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We can point to how much better it is here in these areas because prior generations didn’t just say it’s better than it used to be or it’s better elsewhere.

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Look… I had a handle “Redwingsofbaron” on another forum, and it shortened to “Redwings” I clearly dont have a good track record with these things lol.

As far as your argument, while I agree, at least as the white majority, I’m in a good place in America; I firmly disagree with the sentiment of “better” and “good enough”

If everyone held that mindset, society as a whole would start to stagnate. Improvement is always preferable. Just because were down to a couple of difficult viruses, doesnt mean we should stop and say “yeah, it’s better than it used to be”

And as far as I’m concerned, that’s a mute point. Because countries all have different weaknesses. America isnt just objectively the best country to live in. England, Germany, Japan, Canada, Norway, Sweden… all places that for all intents and purposes, are relatively stable, successful, and “1st world”. And all of them have glaring flaws.

Regardless of other less developed, or otherwise economically misfortuned countries, police brutality is a significant problem. Racism is a significant problem. Corrupt government officials are a significant problem. Big brother is a significant problem. Overly militarized governments opposed to unarmed citizens is a significant problem. Because another country is going through genocide, or a civil war, or economic collapse… doesnt trivialize any of the previous issues. At a certain point you have to throw your sword in the ground and fight for what you need to have improved. For what you believe in, and what effects you. You cant expect people to roll over and take a murder by those meant to protect and serve lying on their backs, several times, just because “another country has it worse” …just as an example.

**edited; a more direct response to your statement:

I’m a Martyr for perspective. I think very few things are more important. However, in very close current events, second to second; Americans are watching their once infallable country take away rights, enforce violence, spread corruption, all headed by one of the most blatantly corrupt presidents in our generations lives. (I was actually impartial to Trump, right up until the last 2 weeks, but that’s a different subject) …so Americans very well can complain. Were not living in a golden era, were not progressing… were literally going backwards. Even if slow… its noticeable. And most of us are too fucking stupid to realize its the governing power, and are taking sides instead.

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Please enlighten me oh wise one, tell me all, broaden my mind?

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I’m afraid a consensus of opinions doesn’t mean squat.I haven’t seen a consensus anyway. If you all said the world was flat, that wouldn’t make it so. You’re the child trying to dismiss something as irrelevant when it shows your ignorance of how the rest of the world views America.

Your attitude, but you actually dismiss the viewpoints and experience of other countries in comparison to the USA and say those positions are irrelevant, despite you being in a superior society to most others. It speaks of arrogance and possibly hubris. You may not even realise you are doing it.
Ask yourself why do all these immigrants from all races want to come to America, if its such a terrible place to live because of white supremacy, racism, misogyny? Its a rhetorical question, to which you won’t be able to give a suitable reasonable reply. If it was so bad they would all leave, prove me wrong, I bet you can’t.

[quote=“H_factor, post:91, topic:267132”]
Wonder why you told me to do something positive then?
[/quote] Because your wasting your efforts trying to debate me, when you could potentially make real change in the actual world. I guess its easier for you to type some crap rather than make the effort in the real world, too much trouble eh?

You assumed you educated me, once again your arrogance at work. I had a different take on the same information, and I don’t agree with you broadly speaking( the might have been a few minor points but that didn’t effect the argument in general). Once again in the other debate you failed to consider the relevance to what happens in the rest of the world and how it effects America.You seemed to think all immigration was positive for America, I seem to remember you were pro immigration especially for illegals, in agriculture, because your American brothers were too lazy to do the work(what a patriot you are). How are all those illegals doing now, with the Covid 19 epidemic? You think they’re putting an extra strain on the infrastructure, or effecting opportunities for out of work Americans?

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I agree

I agree with that, but people still need to be reasonable with their demands, and how they go about trying to achieve them. Violence is an absolute last resort.

I believe police brutality is an issue too, especially in Mr Floyds case. I am yet to see anything that even remotely justified the horrible treatment this fellow human had to suffer before he died, begging for help. Truly appalling to watch. Even if hypothetically there was at some time a genuine reason to restrain him like that( the threat had ended much earlier). Plain sickening, the totally unnecessary cruelty.

I could understand why someone might riot, if they had given the legal process a chance to give Mr Floyd and his family some posthumous justice, but if instead the accused was let of with a slap on the wrist. They haven’t waited though.

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They didnt, but, how long should a murderer be allowed to walk free? Innocent until proven guilty is great and all, unless it’s literally on camera. It took over a day to arrest him, then stuck him with 3rd degree murder, and hes already posted bail… it’s just sloppy at best.

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I have ideas why these things are happening. I’d be interested in hearing what you think are the reasons for these changes?

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He should never have gotten bail, that was a really bad idea.

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The balkanization of America looks to be upon us. History is not kind to multi ethic regions governed under one umbrella. Once these regions are subjected to external stressors even the slightest provocation will ignite pandemonium(A ten week viral lockdown would qualify). Read up on the former Yugoslavia if an example is needed. The only societies that are going to thrive long term are homogeneous ones such as Japan, Korea or draconian ones such as China. Where brutal oppression of minorities such as Uighurs, Tibetans, and members of Falun gong would read like dystopian fiction.

All you can do now is pick a side, arm yourself, and prepare if things spiral out of control. Interesting side note the numbers 46 and 75.5; life expectancies for sub saharan Africa and black Americans respectively. No nation in history has benefited a people juxtaposed to their land of origin as this one even calling into account the unfortunate circumstances on arrival. When emotion trumps reason though what good are facts and logic.

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