[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Well…if you could just bring your argument together with some basic facts then maybe you could win me over. But the problem is that the facts are on my side with this one. As it stands when George Carlin did talk about government, business and religion it was most definitely from a far left position.
[/quote]
Oh god… the irony… my sides, they are splitting!
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Magnate wrote:
Or you could keep just saying his material was liberal and hope that repetition will make it true.
Or…you could just keep saying that his material was not liberal and that would make it so.
[/quote]
So just to be absolutely crystal clear here. You either can’t or won’t produce a single line of commentary from his over 30 year long career in standup that satisfies this;
And despite not providing anything that fills that claim, you believe the rest of us are in denial about his material being of a liberal bias. Just checking.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
If you were really checking you would have scrolled up a couple of posts and read the link, or just the few passages from the link…but you’re a lazy bastard and can’t be expected to do that…
Shame really.
[/quote]
I’m reading the link after I post this, I did read your earlier post however. I also fail to see the relevance as I never said Carlin was or was not liberal, I said his material was not liberally or conservatively biased, it took shots at all sides, frequently at the same time.
McGovern never made it onto his stage act (at least in any of the 14 HBO specials he did), it did not become a talking point for him in any HBO special or movie that he did. Hell, it occured 5 years before his first HBO special. How is this relevant to his material being liberal?
Is simply being anti-conservative and anti-neoconservative enough to make you liberal? If by that same logic, is being adamantly anti-democrat enough to make you conservative? Was George Carlin the equivalent of dividing by 0?
Still have yet to provide his comedy material that was liberal.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
If you were really checking you would have scrolled up a couple of posts and read the link, or just the few passages from the link…but you’re a lazy bastard and can’t be expected to do that…
[/quote]
From the link:
[quote]“I understand the marketplace, but government is supposed to be here to redress the inequities of the marketplace,” Carlin continued. "That’s one of its functions. Not just to protect the nation, secure our security and all that shit.
And not just to take care of great problems that are trans-state problems, that are national, but also to make sure that the inequalities of the marketplace are redressed by the acts of government. That’s what welfare was about.
There are people who really just don’t have the tools, for whatever reason. Yes, there are lazy people. Yes, there are slackers. Yes, there’s all of that.
But there are also people who can’t cut it, for any given reason, whether it’s racism, or an educational opportunity, or poverty, or a fuckin’ horrible home life, or a history of a horrible family life going back three generations, or whatever it is.
They’re crippled and they can’t make it, and they deserve to rest at the commonweal. That’s where my fuckin’ passion lies."[/quote]
I had never read this before. Nor have I ever hear him say it in his standup or films.
So yes, appears you were right he is a liberal idealist at least wrt welfare. I still don’t see where your post about his performances being liberal comes from though.
“I understand the marketplace, but government is supposed to be here to redress the inequities of the marketplace,” Carlin continued. "That’s one of its functions. Not just to protect the nation, secure our security and all that shit.
And not just to take care of great problems that are trans-state problems, that are national, but also to make sure that the inequalities of the marketplace are redressed by the acts of government. That’s what welfare was about. There are people who really just don’t have the tools, for whatever reason. Yes, there are lazy people. Yes, there are slackers. Yes, there’s all of that.
But there are also people who can’t cut it, for any given reason, whether it’s racism, or an educational opportunity, or poverty, or a fuckin’ horrible home life, or a history of a horrible family life going back three generations, or whatever it is. They’re crippled and they can’t make it, and they deserve to rest at the commonweal. That’s where my fuckin’ passion lies."
This was in his stand up? Bullshit.
What he actually WAS is irrelevant. His standup was rarely politically charged, and he took plenty of shots at lefties of all shapes and sizes.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
GreenMountains wrote:
People like Mick28 are scared of that which they do not understand which is most things. Liberals = bad. If he doesnâ¿¿t understand it then it must be bad therefore liberal.
Let’s see genius the last time that Carlin voted for President he said it was for…
George McGovern!
"The last vote that George Carlin said he cast in a presidential race was for George McGovern in 1972.
When Richard Nixon, who Carlin described as a member of a sub-species of humanity, overwhelmingly defeated McGovern, the comedian gave up on the political process."
There just were not enough liberals running for President to get Carlins interest after that.
He had this to say about the Reagan administration:
“I really haven’t seen this many people in one place since they took the group photograph of all the criminals and lawbreakers in the Ronald Reagan administration.”
Here’s an article for you:
http://www.alternet.org/story/89120
Everyone is obviously well aware that Carlin attacked plenty of things, it was his style. But most can see that he had a very left wing bent to much of his material when it came to politics, business and religion.
That you cannot figure that out is not surprising. I’ve read a few of your other posts and …well…let’s just say that you’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer and leave it at that.
[/quote]
Why don�??t you lose some of that hostility? Getting laid might help. When was the last time you were laid? Must be difficult for you as women usually aren�??t attracted to bitter ill-tempered morons.
And the Reagan administration was full of �??criminals and lawbreakers�??. It�??s a historical FACT unlike all your arguments which are based on your childish emotions of fear of a world too complicated for your simpleton brain.
Holly crap this thread went downhill fast.
Yes he was a liberal. If you don’t think he was a liberal, you are an idiot.
Beyond that he was funny. Funny as hell, regardless of his politics. In fact my wife’s favorite comedian.
So I didn’t agree with him on politics. That doesn’t mean I should hate him.
Lets have a little respect here.
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
GreenMountains wrote:
Why donâ¿¿t you lose some of that hostility?
Scrolling back it appears that you were the first to get hostile junior:
People like Mick28 are scared of that which they do not understand which is most things.
But it always pleases me that kids like you who throw the first stone are the first to go whining to mommy when you get just a little in return. Why don’t you grow a pair punk?
Getting laid might help. When was the last time you were laid? Must be difficult for you as women usually arenâ¿¿t attracted to bitter ill-tempered morons.
Now see there…you’re confused again…
No fair counting all the times you pulled your pud over at the “Sex and the male animal” thread.
And the Reagan administration was full of â¿¿criminals and lawbreakersâ¿¿. Itâ¿¿s a historical FACT unlike all your arguments which are based on your childish emotions of fear of a world too complicated for your simpleton brain.
That quote was stated by Carlin (the liberal) to demonstrate that he was in fact a liberal. Just as his vote for George McGovern proves that he was a liberal. Your desire to slam the Reagan administration just shows that you too are a liberal defending another liberal. But…everyone who has seen some of your pathetic posts knows that you’re a liberal…no secret there.
As for your other comments once you move out of Mommy and Daddys basement and actually get a job you might realize how the world works a little better. Until then you’re doomed to sound like the dumb kid that you are…Now get back over to the Obama threads he needs your support. I read some of your stupid comments on Obama and laughed hysterically…Now get back there he needs stalwart young starry eyed fucked up kids like you to carry the message of change…Ha ha…you simple little fuck!
[/quote]
Are you and bigflamer the same person or just fellow NAMBLA members? You both seem obsessed with young boys.
I don�??t need to get a job. I�??m a capitalist. I own businesses where I get to employ dummies like you for peanuts and make you scrub toilets and you say �??Yes, sir. Anything else sir? Thank you sir.�?? And, I pay less taxes than losers like you struggling paycheck to paycheck with your three crappy jobs cause you got no skills son.
I would like you to show me where I ever said I was an Obama supporter. You can�??t can you? Not only are you dumb as a stump and bitter as baboon bile but a liar also.
Gloating over the death of another person who never did anything to you is really low and speaks volumes about your character.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
If you don’t think he was a liberal, you are an idiot.
[/quote]
…says an idiot.
If you agree with mick you are an idiot.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
The Mage wrote:
If you don’t think he was a liberal, you are an idiot.
…says an idiot.
If you agree with mick you are an idiot.[/quote]
Mick thinks we need oxygen. Do you agree?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Magnate:
Nothing personal here Magnate as you have kept your commentary civil and I’ve tried to do the same with you and Bewolf (who is not a liberal). But why is it that liberals like yourself and GreenMountain asshole never want to be called liberal? In addition to that you guys never want anyone else who is liberal to be called liberal?[/quote]
I’m not liberal, and i’m not saying this because I have some stigma attached to the word. I disagree with the democratic party platform and fall more closely in line with the republican or libertarian side, ergo I am conservative.
I define myself as conservative based on George Will’s definition of the terms: “Conservatives tend to favor freedom and are willing to accept inequalities of outcome from a free market. Liberals tend to favor equality of outcome and are willing to sacrifice freedom in order to get it.”
I however am very socially liberal, and that word doesn’t burn me like holy water on a demon. That said, I still vote republican (the few times I’ve been able to vote so far, at least).
I don’t understand why those that are liberal in their views see being called it a bad thing.
[quote]
Why anyone would ever think that Carlin was not a liberal is actually funny to me. Maybe you are truly confused because he was a rabble rouser. He did speak of many things and attacked many things. But if you listen closely to his material when he got onto topics such as religion, business, profanity, drug usage etc. it is obvious to the discerning listener that he was liberal. And this is backed up by his vote for Geroge McGovern in 1972. And his later attack on the Reagan administration 10 years after that.[/quote]
I thought his material was not liberal. There is a difference. I did think he had a liberal lean personally from watching his interviews w/ people like K.O. But my point was that his standup and the movies he was in did not reflect this. But then again, I don’t define liberal the same way you do apparently. Atheist and pro-drug were never something I associated with just liberals. Those seem to cross party lines quite well. (althought I am sure that the majority of people holding those views are also democrats/liberals).
Lately it seems that so many have gone batshit crazy because of Bush’s presidency that they are adamantly anti-republican now as well. That always was how George Carlin’s later works looked to me, he would attack specific people (George Bush in this case) but generally did not attack the platform of the party - this is why I still won’t say his comedy was liberal. Although yes, he was.
You as well, thank you for the link. I was unaware he ever did an Onion interview - time to track that down 
Damn. George Carlin just dies and you CONS spin everything he said. But you probably heard Rush, O’Reily, and Hannity do the same, so it follows you ditto-heads line up and say the same.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
Holly crap this thread went downhill fast.
Yes he was a liberal. If you don’t think he was a liberal, you are an idiot.
Beyond that he was funny. Funny as hell, regardless of his politics. In fact my wife’s favorite comedian.
So I didn’t agree with him on politics. That doesn’t mean I should hate him.
Lets have a little respect here.[/quote]
I never said he wasn’t a liberal. I said his comedy was 90% not political. And the 10% that was political had a 50/50 split between mocking the left and the right.
Mick says he was anti-business, I say he was anti-environmentalism. Mick says anti-religious, I say that isn’t a conservative or a liberal trait, it just happens to be concentrated under the liberals right now. I know a handful of atheist conservatives. They are independent qualities.