I’m 6’2", plenty of muscle mass, but probably around 18% bodyfat, 46 years old. Taking 350 mg test, 140 mg NPP, 335 mg Primo, 2 mg Reta per week, 10-20 mg/d anavar (that might not even be legit). I’ve averaged 1845 calories (238 prot, 83 carbs, 68 fat) for the first 17 days of my cut. I’ve gone from 234 lbs to 227 lbs (although 3 lbs of water dropped off in the first day).
2 mg/wk of reta has me feeling like I can’t eat. I had to force feed myself to get over 1600 calories yesterday. I think I’ll cut back on it. I was mostly hoping it would help me preserve lean mass and skew the weight loss toward adipose.
I could easily drop my calories more. If I was doing this all natural, I know that would be a bad idea. So I’d like to hear your experiences with going beyond 1% bodyweight loss per week while on gear.
I know my cycle is pretty light compared to many, but I’ve only been on fairly low dose TRT for years (120 mg/ wk) so I’m easing in. I’ve shifted away from any powerlifting and I’m keeping everything over 10 reps and trying to use this time to heal up as well. I’m lifting about six days per week on a push/pull/legs split and I’ll add in a rest day here an there when my body tells me to.
Anyway, main question is, “Can I cut 3lbs or more per week without losing muscle?” but also feel free to chime in with any other suggestions.
I’ll take that as a vote that I shouldn’t push it any harder. I think my maintenance is around 2650 calories/day (based on taking an average of what I’ve eaten, weight I’ve lost and using 500cal/day deficit = 1lb per wk), but I also think the reta has pushed that up.
IMO, if you have never dieted down to a lean body composition before, you need to do the cut slow to retain as much muscle mass as possible.
I would incorporate a strength metric to assure you that you are keeping the muscle. It is best to use an upper body press movement, IMO. If you are not getting weaker, you are not losing muscle.
From my experience you are not using a low amount of AAS. You are taking more than I ever took. Which brings the question: How many AAS cycles have you done before this one?
If you are not planning frequent AAS cycles to follow this one, IMO 18% body fat is too high to start a AAS cycle to get lean.
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Are you sure you’re measuring you food accurately?
Thing is you got to factor in when you start too low out of the gate. That you run the risk of having to go pretty damn low when or if your loss plateaus .
I’ve dieted down to six pack before. I’ve spent a lot of the last decade with upper abs recognizable. I only got over 230 due to a recent bulk that went poorly after I used some bunk test which left me with like 100 ng/dL in my body.
I agree. Strength metric is a good idea. I AMRAP’ed 315 on bench before starting the cut so I have that as a gauge. I’m keeping reps over 10 now so I’ve been just pushing out sets with 275 lbs and I track it so that should indicate if I’m losing muscle to some extent.
I’ve only ever done one cycle before, nine years ago. I upped my TRT back then to around 250 mg/wk, then I cut for 12 weeks before adding a minimal dose of tren. I got very lean and muscular very quickly then went back to 125 mg/ wk TRT.
Could you explain your last paragraph a bit more? I will do more AAS in the future after I cruise for a while after this cut. I will stick with nandrolone for joints in more of a therapeutic role. I like having the primo to control estrogen and for the added anabolic effect with less androgenic effects. I’m only ever going to bulk very cleanly after this and I don’t intend to ever bulk over 15% bf again. Oh, and I don’t intend to cut down to single digit bf or anything. I would be happy with 12% and extremely happy with 10%.
I’m tracking my macros in an app. I have food scale. I’m repeating many of the same meals. So, yeah, I think I’m doing a pretty good job of measuring calories.
I appreciate the downside of starting too low. I’ve lost only 4 lbs in 17 days if we don’t count that initial water dump. That’s less than 1% of bodyweight per week. Now that the Reta is kicking in, there’s a chance I’ll need to actually up my calories to avoid losing more than 1% per week. I was curious if I could push it to 1.5% or 2%, being on cycle. I’m thinking you’d caution against that from your response.
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I am thinking that getting in the 10 to 12% body fat range slowly without losing muscle would work more effectively done in two cycles instead of going for it all is a single cycle.
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As @bulldog9899 said your cals are already too low. You have nowhere to go when fat loss stalls. There is 0 need to “aggressively cut”.
Anything done fast will have a big rebound when you start eating again.
What are you maint cals?
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Best guess at maintenance is between 2650 and 2700. That’s based on the seventeen days of dieting I’ve done (post water loss) and using the formula 500 cal/day = 1 lb per week. I calculate it for the total time and I track a five day moving average and it points to that range. Recent calculations show 2800+ so maybe the reta is kicking in a bit more.
As far as stalling, If I’m only losing a couple pounds per week, I guess my maintenance burn rate just sucks. But it does look more like I lost three lbs this past week. So, all in all, I suppose I could see what 2000+ cal’s per day does.
If your maint is 2700 and you wanna go 500cal deficit you should be at 2200 until fat loss stalls.
I usually drop 200 cals at a time. I’ve bever gone below 200/2200 cals on a diet unless in prep for a show.
What you’re doing is not a good approach. It’s not gonna be sustainable.
How much weight are you trying to lose?
Thanks. I’m upping my calories to 2200 based on comments here. I was trying to run higher than 500 cal deficit since Dr. MIke had mentioned losing 1%/wk was reasonable. 1% for me is 2.3 lbs. I thought maybe a 750 deficit would work. I thought the gear would allow me to be more aggressive. Anyway, there’s enough consensus here and from convo’s I had at the gym today to convince me I should have my calories over 2000 so I’ll make 2200/day my goal this week. I appreciate the advice. We’ll see what happens. I’m actually having trouble reaching that today. The reta has me not wanting to eat, but I also have meal habits now that include very high protein, low calorie meals. I need to add some rice and other things to my meals I suppose.
You’re also taking too much of this. I’ve been taking 1mg/wk for 15 weeks and feel no need to go higher. My appetite is not as suppressed as it was the first few weeks but it’s enough. Low retat for longer duration seems to be more beneficial.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m delaying my next shot until my appetite returns and then I’m going to stick with 1mg/wk.
Reta apparently can cause insomnia for some too and I suffer from it so that’s another reason for me to cut back.
Try the Reta at 1mg every 5 days.
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I’ve really appreciated the collective knowledge/experience that came together on this. I’m hoping I got away with being a little more aggressive for the first 17 days without reducing my BMR. From my calculations, my BMR has increased (maybe b/c of the reta). Now, I’m increasing calories, but thinking this through has me wondering if, at higher body fat percentages, an initial, more-aggressive phase can make sense. There’s the danger of decreasing BMR, but I’m curious how long that takes. Naturally, our bodies are going to be a little more willing to drop a higher ratio of fat when we are fat and more likely to catabolize lean mass as we get leaner. So, for some of you guys who stay pretty lean year around, the very slow and steady approach is probably optimal; however, for those of us who managed to get a little tubby, I’m wondering if we can be more aggressive dropping from say 20% to 15% bodyfat before toning it down. Not sure if we have guys on here who dirty bulk (seems more like an old school mistake).
Also, this has helped me think about my priorities. I asked how to minimize muscle loss and everyone answered that question very well, even suggesting I’d be better off doing this over two cycles. I’ve decided that I’d prefer to do it in one even if it means losing a little muscle and then gain it back on a very clean bulk cycle in fall/winter. If I can lose a lb per week with 500 cal deficit for the next 12 weeks, I think I’ll be pretty in line with my goals. I’ll even try to add in some cardio when I stall before dropping from the 2200+ calories we’ve all somewhat agreed on here.
Can’t wait until some of this Reta gets out of my system so I can enjoy food again (be advised those who haven’t tried it… it’s best to titrate up very slowly).
Feeling much better about my cut. I appreciate everyone’s input.
Nothing done fast is a good idea.
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I disagree with that as an absolute, but I think you were very right that I was going too fast. I’ve adjusted significantly per your input and I appreciate it man.
From my experience this is as close to an absolute that exists in bodybuilding.
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