Gear is for Cheaters

Training Powerlifting
121

[quote]masonator wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
masonator wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Hanley wrote:
dfreezy wrote:
malonetd wrote:
What’s ridiculous? I listed things people don’t need to play their chosen sport, yet these things are generally accepted.

The comparison to a sprinter’s shoes is probably the most appropriate, though, since the level of increased performance is comparable.

I think nearly every example you listed was a piece of equipment that is required by the official rules for organized competition of the sport or is needed for the direct safety of the athlete/participant.

You don’t NEED lighter tennis rackets, or better shoes.

No, but you do need a racket and shoes.

They just allow you to perform better. You wouldn’t NEED pads in football if you just told the players not to hit as hard, or just tag.

Safety equipment just doesn’t relate to gear in my book. We must read different books, because that parallel makes no sense.

But they’ve been a part of the sport for so long people just accept them.

And now, correct me if i’m wrong, has equipmend, and the use of shirts, suits, knee wraps, tennis balls, bed sheets and a rake load of other things been a part of powerliftng for longer than it hasn’t??

At one point it wasn’t.

Shoes in running are probably the closest parallel anyone has made. But it would probably be a closer comparison if runners today started showing up with sprung “kangaroo” shoes to get an advantage.

You really think the difference between raw and equipped lifting is akin to real hard hitting American football vs. touch football? That’s one of the dumber, more disrespectful comparisons on the thread honestly. Not having pads really seems to limit the hitting in rugby. You should get them to add more pads so the game would be better.

I can see the parallels in football. They didn’t use any pads or helmets in the old days. Then they added pads/helmets, and they slowly evolved into the nearly impervious shells used today. As the pads evolved, the hitting and gameplay both improved drastically. Same general idea with gear.

I thought there were always pads of some sort. You could also argue that guys got bigger and faster and facilitated the need for better safety equipment.

Regardless, you are arguing sports like rugby should “progress” to using more padding?

No, but I am saying there would be many better hits with more pads. Just like more weight is lifted with gear.
Regardless of anyone’s preference, gear is here to stay.[/quote]

I’m amazed that someone got it.

Lets go back to the start, when was powerlifting at it’s “purest”?

122

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
…One thing is for sure, using gear does not measure your true strength. It measures how good you are in lifting WITH the gear and how much of your strength can you translate to a bigger weight.

Me, personally, I wouldn’t be impressed if a 700 pound geared deadlifter can only deadlift 200 pounds without it, but I am impressed of the fact that he managed to create an innovation.[/quote]

Luckily for you, no one is a 700 pound geared deadlifter and a 200 pound raw deadlifter, so you can be impressed regardless.

BTW, take away the gear, and the strong are still strong, and the weak still bitch (or bust ass to get strong).

123

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Me, personally, I wouldn’t be impressed if a 700 pound geared deadlifter can only deadlift 200 pounds without it, but I am impressed of the fact that he managed to create an innovation.[/quote]

I’m not sure whether you intended it to be or not, but comments like that are quite insulting.

The implication was that anyone (even weak ass bitches) can put on gear and be strong. It just doesn’t work like that unfortunately.

124

Most of the top geared lifters use the best gear because their compation uses the best gear.

Me, I just wish I was strong enoughe to start trainign in gear!

125

Anybody who doesn’t lift in the nude is a cheater.

126

People (mostly people who have never used gear)seem think you get this carryover from the get-go. That’s just not true. It takes a LOT of form work and CNS conditioning to get any respectable amount of carryover.

I like to lift geared and I like to lift raw. The bottom line, to me at least, is that raw and geared lifting are 2 very different, good things.

Hanley, I don’t think there was ever a “purest” form. In Kaz’s day, they used tennis balls and 20ft wraps, as mentioned before. It’s human nature to try to get an advantage over one’s opponent. In my opinion, geared feds are more “pure” than the old days because everyone is at least on the same level of equipment.

127

[quote]bigdaddy082 wrote:
Guys is there an established limit on the amount of weight your shoulders and elbows can handle say on the Bench or is it just when you think you need the bench shirt?[/quote]

That is different for everyone. My shoulders certainly seem to have a limit where injury occurs even with lower % training weights (raw).

A shirt helps significantly up to about 85% of my shirted max, but over that the extra weight takes it’s toll at any shoulder angle. Thankfully, the majority of my training is around or below 85% so I am able to continue benching.

128

I think a better thread title would have been, “Do we need seperate forums for PL and the pursuit of strength?”

I train the 3 lifts as my primary exercises because I like what they do to my body. I have even thought of doing a meet one day to record my numbers somewhere other than my journal but I would never use gear because I think it’s silly. And your high squat is not a squat. Deal with it.

129

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Me, personally, I wouldn’t be impressed if a 700 pound geared deadlifter can only deadlift 200 pounds without it, but I am impressed of the fact that he managed to create an innovation.[/quote]

Because this has happened.

Should’ve used squatting as an example, since gear crossover with deads is pretty limited.

But yeah, the guy who benches 750lbs with gear can still outbench the majority of raw lifters so I think you’d be impressed either way :slight_smile:

130

[quote]Wilba wrote:
I think a better thread title would have been, “Do we need seperate forums for PL and the pursuit of strength?”

I train the 3 lifts as my primary exercises because I like what they do to my body. I have even thought of doing a meet one day to record my numbers somewhere other than my journal but I would never use gear because I think it’s silly. And your high squat is not a squat. Deal with it.[/quote]

and your lifts don’t count until the numbers are published after a meet. They are just gym lifts. Until you have three judges telling you they count, they don’t. You can be one of those warriors who tells the young boys one day about how you ‘thought’ about doing a meet.

Deal with it :slight_smile:

See how we can all find something to look down our noses at?

131

So you’re the great arbiter on what constitutes a good lift? Maximum range of motion? I assume then that all squats are atg, all benches done with a cambered bar and all deadlifts pulled while standing on a raised platform/plates/boxes/something that puts the starting point of the bar at jsut above your toes. Are you dealing with that?

132

“It has often been heard said that the supportive gear was one reason given that our sport has not been “fully” accepted by the IOC, but ex-president Norbert Wallauch after conferring with the IOC confirmed that this was not so.” IPF Chair John Stephenson

133

[quote]goochadamg wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Why dont you go buy yourself a pair of ace briefs, a size too large, put them on, and see if you get a PR. My bet is on you getting thrown all over the place because you don’t know what the hell you are doing.

If you had those, and knew how to use them, and trained in them, then yeah…you might be able to hit 500…but easily is a different story.

Did I somehow bruise your ego?[/quote]

No, my ego is fine, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. No one “throws on” a pair of 2 ply briefs without any experience in them and suddenly gets a ton of carryover.

My first time in briefs, I couldn’t get to parallel…not because they were too strong, but because I didn’t know how to squat in them.

134

it doesnt matter.

see, even if you HAVE competed, with AND without gear, like i have, nobody cares, the rule is still: “shut the fuck up about it and quit whining about gear you little bitch”

lol
people comparing equipment used in other sports, well, i dare say that in most sports the equipment does not result into 20% increases in performances. dont use the bike racing and golf analogies, thats FAIL, the “equipment” is an ingrained part of those sports, that is like comparing a high jumpers nubers with a pole vaulters.

i learned my lesson a few years ago, i used to get into gear debates quite a bit on diff forums, my only interest was just to voice my opinon on the matter, but i found many people take it VERY VERY personally. i had people who i thought were friends of mine pretty much “divorse” me and launch what i thought were pretty inappropriate personal attacks because of my opinion on the multiply feds.

times change, and it really is not worth getting upset about it(on both ends), sort of like the fact that i do not and never smoked weed, and think most (not all) people who do are dirty, smelly soft-headed losers, but i have to face the fact that most every body in the community i live smokes weed pretty regularly. i work in the ed and do tox screens on tons of people everyday, and pretty much EVERYBODY is positive for canabis, and no, i am NOT exagerating, lol.

135

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:
Wilba wrote:
I think a better thread title would have been, “Do we need seperate forums for PL and the pursuit of strength?”

I train the 3 lifts as my primary exercises because I like what they do to my body. I have even thought of doing a meet one day to record my numbers somewhere other than my journal but I would never use gear because I think it’s silly. And your high squat is not a squat. Deal with it.

and your lifts don’t count until the numbers are published after a meet. They are just gym lifts. Until you have three judges telling you they count, they don’t. You can be one of those warriors who tells the young boys one day about how you ‘thought’ about doing a meet.

Deal with it :slight_smile:

See how we can all find something to look down our noses at?[/quote]

I guess you missed my point about the difference between strength and PL.

It’s fine if you don’t think my lifts count, I don’t care. I don’t need a third party to tell me if my lift was legit. There’s the bar, there’s me and nothing else. It either goes up or doesn’t. I don’t need a judge and a diaper to make it count.

I wasn’t putting anyone down, just contributing my opinion to the debate.

136

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

Wilba wrote:
I think a better thread title would have been, “Do we need seperate forums for PL and the pursuit of strength?”

I train the 3 lifts as my primary exercises because I like what they do to my body. I have even thought of doing a meet one day to record my numbers somewhere other than my journal but I would never use gear because I think it’s silly. And your high squat is not a squat. Deal with it.

So you’re the great arbiter on what constitutes a good lift? Maximum range of motion? I assume then that all squats are atg, all benches done with a cambered bar and all deadlifts pulled while standing on a raised platform/plates/boxes/something that puts the starting point of the bar at jsut above your toes. Are you dealing with that?

[/quote]

Never said I was but a squat is a squat and if you do something else (less than full ROM, assitance gear, etc.) it’s now something else and not a squat. Perhaps PL squat would be a better term? When I say squat and you say it we both mean very different things so there should be different terms to describe what we are talking about.

137

[quote]Wilba wrote:
ouroboro_s wrote:
Wilba wrote:
I think a better thread title would have been, “Do we need seperate forums for PL and the pursuit of strength?”

I train the 3 lifts as my primary exercises because I like what they do to my body. I have even thought of doing a meet one day to record my numbers somewhere other than my journal but I would never use gear because I think it’s silly. And your high squat is not a squat. Deal with it.

and your lifts don’t count until the numbers are published after a meet. They are just gym lifts. Until you have three judges telling you they count, they don’t. You can be one of those warriors who tells the young boys one day about how you ‘thought’ about doing a meet.

Deal with it :slight_smile:

See how we can all find something to look down our noses at?

I guess you missed my point about the difference between strength and PL.

It’s fine if you don’t think my lifts count, I don’t care. I don’t need a third party to tell me if my lift was legit. There’s the bar, there’s me and nothing else. It either goes up or doesn’t. I don’t need a judge and a diaper to make it count.

I wasn’t putting anyone down, just contributing my opinion to the debate.

[/quote]

You didn’t make your point very well. I guess you missed mine. I don’t actually believe that gym lifts don’t count. I drew a parallel in your arbitrarily deciding what is a squat and what isn’t and my saying your lifts don’t count and aren’t real until they are judge real. They both sound equally foolish.

You don’t need a third party to tell you what a squat is and most people here don’t need your say so on whether their lifts are real or not.

You say you’re not putting anyone down but by calling something silly that’s exactly what you’ve just said. The way in which you’ve expressed yourself makes me believe you don’t have the depth of experience to look anything but foolish when you post your comments on the issue. However, this is a public forum so, by all means, carry on.

You can look down your e-nose at the high squatters and I can look down mine at someone who will likely never have the nuts to get on a platform regardless of how they bum and blow about it.

138

Hey guys i summed up this thread with one picture

139

[quote]Wilba wrote:
Never said I was but a squat is a squat and if you do something else (less than full ROM, assitance gear, etc.) it’s now something else and not a squat. Perhaps PL squat would be a better term? When I say squat and you say it we both mean very different things so there should be different terms to describe what we are talking about.[/quote]

Ignorant.

And I bet you never use a belt, right?

This kinda of mind set is why there’s no consensus in powerlifting to for a unified federation for raw, single and unlimited ply divisions under one roof.

140

[quote]Synthetickiller wrote:
Wilba wrote:
Never said I was but a squat is a squat and if you do something else (less than full ROM, assitance gear, etc.) it’s now something else and not a squat. Perhaps PL squat would be a better term? When I say squat and you say it we both mean very different things so there should be different terms to describe what we are talking about.

Ignorant.

And I bet you never use a belt, right?

This kinda of mind set is why there’s no consensus in powerlifting to for a unified federation for raw, single and unlimited ply divisions under one roof.

[/quote]

Well belts make you weak. I’m pretty sure they also make you gay so watch out.

I’m not sure why, with all the trash talk, this particular guys posts got on my wick like they did.

Perhaps it’s the high-handed talk about what he would do if he were to compete. Don’t tell people about what you would do, hypothetically, in any situation. Tell us what you actually did do. Until you do it, it’s bullshit. That doesn’t just apply to lifting and competition but every aspect of life. Until you’ve lived it, you don’t know shit about what you’d do, just what you think you’d like to do.