I wasn’t saying that wikipedia was the authoratative refrence on the subject. Just showing that even a general information site is aware of the variants you are trying to deny.
At least I now understand why many people think that lifters are stupid.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Wilba wrote:
Squats existed long before some “federation” made up their own rules. You need to look no further than wikipedia to see all of the variants I was talking about.
Wait…so what we do in multiply lifting isn’t a squat?
From the link you posted:
The quads parallel or powerlifting legal squat descends until the crease of the top of the thighs at the hips is lower than the tops of the knees.
and:
The squat is performed by bending the legs at the knees and hips, lowering the torso between the legs, and then reversing direction to stand up straight again. The torso leans forward to maintain balance.
You are basing your definition on what the lifter is wearing when he performs the lift, and not the actual movement. What if I was wearing a hat when I was squatting? Would that mean I was no longer squatting but doing something else? How about special shoes that elevate my heels and make it easier to get really deep? Or high socks?
Of course, all of this doesnt really matter since you aren’t a powerlifter, aren’t involved in powerlifting, and your opinion doesn’t matter to people who are powerlifters.[/quote]
In all due respect, no, a multiply squat is not a squat. It’s a multiply squat. As many people have already noted, they are different lifts.
If you went around telling people you squat X pounds and fail to mention the multiply suit, then yes, in my book you are a liar.
^^ Makes perfect sense.
That’s like saying “My Honda Civic did a 8.5 quater mile” without divulging the fact that it has a corvette engine in there.
[quote]B rocK wrote:
^^ Makes perfect sense.
That’s like saying “My Honda Civic did a 8.5 quater mile” without divulging the fact that it has a corvette engine in there.[/quote]
Actually, my prelude will pull about a 5 second quarter mile.
…if you drive it off a cliff…
…in a vacuum…
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Wilba wrote:
Squats existed long before some “federation” made up their own rules. You need to look no further than wikipedia to see all of the variants I was talking about.
Wait…so what we do in multiply lifting isn’t a squat?
From the link you posted:
The quads parallel or powerlifting legal squat descends until the crease of the top of the thighs at the hips is lower than the tops of the knees.
and:
The squat is performed by bending the legs at the knees and hips, lowering the torso between the legs, and then reversing direction to stand up straight again. The torso leans forward to maintain balance.
You are basing your definition on what the lifter is wearing when he performs the lift, and not the actual movement. What if I was wearing a hat when I was squatting? Would that mean I was no longer squatting but doing something else? How about special shoes that elevate my heels and make it easier to get really deep? Or high socks?
Of course, all of this doesnt really matter since you aren’t a powerlifter, aren’t involved in powerlifting, and your opinion doesn’t matter to people who are powerlifters.
In all due respect, no, a multiply squat is not a squat. It’s a multiply squat. As many people have already noted, they are different lifts.
If you went around telling people you squat X pounds and fail to mention the multiply suit, then yes, in my book you are a liar.[/quote]
As long as you go around telling people that your squat was only a squat down until the crease of your hip broke the plane of your knee, then that’s fine. Otherwise you are a liar, because you’re not differentiating between a PL squat and an OL squat, the same way a PLer isnt differentiating between a multiply squat and an unequipped squat.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Wilba wrote:
Squats existed long before some “federation” made up their own rules. You need to look no further than wikipedia to see all of the variants I was talking about.
Wait…so what we do in multiply lifting isn’t a squat?
From the link you posted:
The quads parallel or powerlifting legal squat descends until the crease of the top of the thighs at the hips is lower than the tops of the knees.
and:
The squat is performed by bending the legs at the knees and hips, lowering the torso between the legs, and then reversing direction to stand up straight again. The torso leans forward to maintain balance.
You are basing your definition on what the lifter is wearing when he performs the lift, and not the actual movement. What if I was wearing a hat when I was squatting? Would that mean I was no longer squatting but doing something else? How about special shoes that elevate my heels and make it easier to get really deep? Or high socks?
Of course, all of this doesnt really matter since you aren’t a powerlifter, aren’t involved in powerlifting, and your opinion doesn’t matter to people who are powerlifters.
In all due respect, no, a multiply squat is not a squat. It’s a multiply squat. As many people have already noted, they are different lifts.
If you went around telling people you squat X pounds and fail to mention the multiply suit, then yes, in my book you are a liar.
As long as you go around telling people that your squat was only a squat down until the crease of your hip broke the plane of your knee, then that’s fine. Otherwise you are a liar, because you’re not differentiating between a PL squat and an OL squat, the same way a PLer isnt differentiating between a multiply squat and an unequipped squat.[/quote]
Comparison fail.
First, to my knowledge Olympic lifting rules don?t designate a squat depth, so I?m not sure what that means. I also don?t think they back squat at all in those?.
Second, are you saying anyone that bends their knees and straightens them with a weight can claim to squat that weight then? Or are you saying there is no such thing as a squat and every number has to be qualified in exact terms? It would have to be one of the 2.
What if I do a forklift assisted squat?
If someone asks you how much you squat, you would respond with geared numbers?Or quantitatively measure the depth of your squat and relate that measurement in your response?
My point is that in common terminology, if you say I squat X. people are going to assume raw, and at least parallel.
If you don?t qualify things outside that common definition, you are misleading people. It?s why people who ?oly? squat will qualify it when they say it. If someone is squatting ATG, or front squatting, they always seem to remember to specify that. But when the specification makes the lift less impressive, some people magically become forgetful.
If you claim your equipped number as you ?squat? you are purposely misleading people hence lying. I?m not disrespect equipped lifts, just people who try and mislead you to make themselves look better than they actually are.
The gym goers I know don?t assume ATG for a ?squat? number. Maybe I?m wrong.
Otherwise, I guess I should start recording day time, temp. humidity, wind speed, and pressure when I squat so I?m not a liar.
What is your best raw total in competition?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Wilba wrote:
Squats existed long before some “federation” made up their own rules. You need to look no further than wikipedia to see all of the variants I was talking about.
Wait…so what we do in multiply lifting isn’t a squat?
From the link you posted:
The quads parallel or powerlifting legal squat descends until the crease of the top of the thighs at the hips is lower than the tops of the knees.
and:
The squat is performed by bending the legs at the knees and hips, lowering the torso between the legs, and then reversing direction to stand up straight again. The torso leans forward to maintain balance.
You are basing your definition on what the lifter is wearing when he performs the lift, and not the actual movement. What if I was wearing a hat when I was squatting? Would that mean I was no longer squatting but doing something else? How about special shoes that elevate my heels and make it easier to get really deep? Or high socks?
Of course, all of this doesnt really matter since you aren’t a powerlifter, aren’t involved in powerlifting, and your opinion doesn’t matter to people who are powerlifters.
In all due respect, no, a multiply squat is not a squat. It’s a multiply squat. As many people have already noted, they are different lifts.
If you went around telling people you squat X pounds and fail to mention the multiply suit, then yes, in my book you are a liar.
As long as you go around telling people that your squat was only a squat down until the crease of your hip broke the plane of your knee, then that’s fine. Otherwise you are a liar, because you’re not differentiating between a PL squat and an OL squat, the same way a PLer isnt differentiating between a multiply squat and an unequipped squat.
Comparison fail.
First, to my knowledge Olympic lifting rules don?t designate a squat depth, so I?m not sure what that means. I also don?t think they back squat at all in those?.
Second, are you saying anyone that bends their knees and straightens them with a weight can claim to squat that weight then? Or are you saying there is no such thing as a squat and every number has to be qualified in exact terms? It would have to be one of the 2.
What if I do a forklift assisted squat?
If someone asks you how much you squat, you would respond with geared numbers?Or quantitatively measure the depth of your squat and relate that measurement in your response?
My point is that in common terminology, if you say I squat X. people are going to assume raw, and at least parallel.
If you don?t qualify things outside that common definition, you are misleading people. It?s why people who ?oly? squat will qualify it when they say it. If someone is squatting ATG, or front squatting, they always seem to remember to specify that. But when the specification makes the lift less impressive, some people magically become forgetful.
If you claim your equipped number as you ?squat? you are purposely misleading people hence lying. I?m not disrespect equipped lifts, just people who try and mislead you to make themselves look better than they actually are.
The gym goers I know don?t assume ATG for a ?squat? number. Maybe I?m wrong.
Otherwise, I guess I should start recording day time, temp. humidity, wind speed, and pressure when I squat so I?m not a liar.[/quote]
when telling people you squat x amount of pounds i find that most people are quite ignorant as far as depth goes and at how much weight that really is. i’ve seen people in the gym do some kind of bullshit 1/8 squats with 315, well i’m guessing he thinks he can squat 315 and tells people that he can squat 315. i also ran some college track and nobody went close to parallel, even some pro football player youtube squat videos don’t get close to parallel.
Why you ask? Because if you don’t have to then why do it, the deeper you go, the less you squat, most people aren’t going to go ATG or parallel unless they have to, that being said, most people don’t squat unless they have a reason to, they just do some half rep leg presses and assume they can do 70% of that on a squat(45 deg angle=.707 vertical force component).
the normal person has their own squat values so out of wack from hearing/seeing all these big equipped squat numbers and half to 3/4 rep squat numbers, that they don’t know how to distinguish between raw, single, multiply, parallel and ATG. they also don’t take into account body weight, you may be in the 165 class and squat x amount of pounds, then they say oh well i know so and so that squats more than that, even though the person they are talking about is prolly 220.
yes i agree that saying you squat x amount of pounds in a super suit may be misleading but if you explain to them you did x amount of pounds in a super suit, they don’t even know/really understand the difference between that and your raw squat, they are just more impressed with the bigger number and if they relayed how much you squat to a friend, i bet they would say the big number and then add “in some kind of suit thing,” if they say anything about a suit at all.
i guess my point is that the general public is ignorant and the only people that can distinguish between raw, single, multiply, parallel and ATG are the powerlifters, oly lifters and some knowledgeable gym goers and those are the ones that you give a shit about anyway.
[quote]PublickStews wrote:
What is your best raw total in competition?[/quote]
Haven’t done a full meet yet,so I don’t have a comp total. Shooting for 1425+ in june if I can get my trap healed at 200.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Comparison fail.
First, to my knowledge Olympic lifting rules don?t designate a squat depth, so I?m not sure what that means. I also don?t think they back squat at all in those?.[/quote]
No kidding they don’t back squat in competition, but they sure as hell do in training. When an o-lifting coach tells one of his lifters to squat, he ain’t talking about a squat to parallel
I’m saying that the fact that you think it’s within your purview to determine what constitutes a squat (raw, back, crease of the hip below top of the knee) then that is a stunning display of arrogance. Get a group of OLers talking about squatting for their training, a group of raw powerlifters talking about the same, and a group of multiply lifters talking about the squat and those three groups will all mean 3 different things with that one word
good for you then - waht if you do?
Then I would do that which some on this thread seem incapable of doing and i would look at the CONTEXT of the conversation. If I ask my friend how much he’s opening with this weekend, I’m presuming he’s using briefs and a suit, because that’s what he trains and competes in. If I’m discussing training with an o-lifter and I ask how he incorporates sets/reps/freq into his training, then I’m presuming he’s going to tell me about his oly squat. If I’m talking to some schmuck in the gym, I’m not going to bother asking what he squats because they all squat high anyway.
This is complete bull. The average person wouldnt know legal depth if it bit them on their rear. Who are you to determine what the common terminology is?
I don’t agree that people will qualify an oly squat with “oly” UNLESS that person is a powerlifter performing oly squats as an assistance exercise. in that case, they need some way of differentiating the exercise from the main lift
Again, this is in the context of the conversation. “Squat” means different things among differnt groups of lifters, and for you to plant your flag in the sand and say “this is MY term, everyone else has to qualify it with ‘oly’ or ‘suit-assisted’” is staggering in its arrogance
They definitely dont. Most of the gym goers I know assume that if you unlock your knees it counts
Well, I guess if you expect everyone else to start qualifying their squats, then turnabout is fair play.
I’ll also say that this entire hypothetical of how to answer if someone asks “what do you squat?” is completely laughable. I dont think I have EVER been asked by some random person what I squat. What I bench, yeah, but never squat.
The only thing that bothers me about gear is regarding records.
It’s totally fine when geared lifters are competing at a meet against eachother. They can all wear the same gear, so it’s fair competition.
However, records in the “bench press”, “squat”, and “deadlift” have been set using gear. The purpose of records is to compare the greats of today with the greats of the past. Having an equipment advantage over the record holders of the past is unfair, and lacks respect in my opinion. These people devoted their lives to getting stronger, and becoming as strong as they could. The least you can do is honor them by keeping the conditions upon which you lift constant. Changing the conditions with equipment really negates the purpose of records, doesn’t it?
I think the same with improved equipment in other record based sports, such as track and field events. The improved technology is giving you an edge over the record holders you’re competing against. I don’t mind people competing against eachother with equal equipment if they so choose, but don’t even pretend to compete with someone who didn’t have the equipment you have. That damages they legacy they spent their life to achieve.
People don’t get offended with equipment in team sports because to achieve something in those sports you have to compete against other people with an equal equipment advantage. Record-based sports are the only fair comparison, but sadly, most of them have also made advances in equipment to aid the participant.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If you went around telling people you squat X pounds and fail to mention the multiply suit, then yes, in my book you are a liar.[/quote]
It really doesn’t matter. Because if you squat 315, it sounds like a lot to most people. If you tell them you squat 900, their no more impressed. In fact, almost nobody gives a fuck what soembody can squat. It just doesn’t matter outside of my sick little sport.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
It really doesn’t matter. Because if you squat 315, it sounds like a lot to most people. If you tell them you squat 900, their no more impressed. In fact, almost nobody gives a fuck what soembody can squat. It just doesn’t matter outside of my sick little sport.
[/quote]
This couldn’t be any more true. Aside from the few people who actually Squat no one has a clue, nor do they give a shit.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
It really doesn’t matter. Because if you squat 315, it sounds like a lot to most people. If you tell them you squat 900, their no more impressed. In fact, almost nobody gives a fuck what soembody can squat. It just doesn’t matter outside of my sick little sport.
[/quote]
QFT
Hi Guys,
Sorry if all this has been said already but I’ve joined this very late.
I don’t like equipped lifting, I respect it but I don’t like it.
There’s way too much risk and I think it’s only a matter of time before someone dies; I really hope I’m wrong.
We’ve all seen the youtube vids of guys losing their grove, even Gene Rychalak got badly stapled a couple of years ago.
From what I heard Vlad Alhazov may never lift again and getting squashed by a 1300 lb Squat attempt. I heard this from one of the guys who was spotting him.
I have used a suit a few times and hate it! Maybe I’m a pussy but I don’t want the sport I love being ripped apart by rightous media types because someone was essentially using a weight they couldn’t handle.
For the record I’m drug free, at the moment I’m squatting around 500lbs with just a belt. I have done 550 a couple of years ago.
Even though I’ve only had a few sessions in a suit I’ve used close to 700lbs.
Cheers,
Chris
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
BlackLabel wrote:
Im gonna get alotta shit for this but…
What’s the point of using gear? Why not just lift Raw and get more satisfaction from doing it yourself instead of the shirt or suit giving you those extra lbs. Ive just never seen the point.
Why do golfer’s use Big Bertha?
Why do Tennis players use new lighter/better rackets?
Why do hockey players use graphite sticks?
Why dont snooker players use bolt-action cues so they dont have to worry about using the right amount of pressure?
[/quote]
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
BlackLabel wrote:
Im gonna get alotta shit for this but…
What’s the point of using gear? Why not just lift Raw and get more satisfaction from doing it yourself instead of the shirt or suit giving you those extra lbs. Ive just never seen the point.
Why do golfer’s use Big Bertha?
Why do Tennis players use new lighter/better rackets?
Why do hockey players use graphite sticks?
Why dont snooker players use bolt-action cues so they dont have to worry about using the right amount of pressure?
Thats a new invention of mine im going to patent it lol!
[/quote]
If you couldnt tell by my last post im not bothered whether people want to use gear or not lifting is lifting.
Gear is for cheaters!
And if it means the difference in winning and losing, I’ll cheat every bit I can get away with…
[quote]Youch wrote:
Hi Guys,
Sorry if all this has been said already but I’ve joined this very late.
I don’t like equipped lifting, I respect it but I don’t like it.
There’s way too much risk and I think it’s only a matter of time before someone dies; I really hope I’m wrong.
We’ve all seen the youtube vids of guys losing their grove, even Gene Rychalak got badly stapled a couple of years ago. [/quote] Mind you, I’m a bodybuilder and not really someone who should be commenting on this topic…
But you can easily lose your groove/suffer grip-failure/tear something/fail to come out of the hole on a squat/etc when training raw.
The weight may be less heavy, but squatting 700 or even 500 raw and messing up will get you injured just as well (or dropping 495-600 lbs or whatever on your throat during a bench press attempt).
So honestly, I don’t quite get that particular argument… [quote]
From what I heard Vlad Alhazov may never lift again and getting squashed by a 1300 lb Squat attempt. I heard this from one of the guys who was spotting him. [/quote] And if some top raw squatter messes up and just about kills his spine/knees/whatever? Same thing… [quote]
I have used a suit a few times and hate it! Maybe I’m a pussy but I don’t want the sport I love being ripped apart by rightous media types because someone was essentially using a weight they couldn’t handle.
For the record I’m drug free, at the moment I’m squatting around 500lbs with just a belt. I have done 550 a couple of years ago.
Even though I’ve only had a few sessions in a suit I’ve used close to 700lbs.
Cheers,
Chris
[/quote]
/edited…