Gay Iranian Man Loses Asylum Plea

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
In other news. Iran’s parliment, fearful of the rapid spread of Christianity, looks set to pass law which would doom apostates to an early death.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222

Should religious minorities, within these types of oppresive and brutal islamic regimes, band together and take up the tactics of islamic terrorists? Meaning, bombing their holy sites and mosques, targeting their clerics, road side bombs against their police and security forces, etc.

I only ask because of the tendency to examine how, and if, the US brings terrorism upon itself, on this here board. A “Well, what do you expect is going to happen?” So, are oppresive Islamic societies about due some attacks from Christian terrori…ahem, freedom fighters?
Would we examine how Islamic supremacy caused such attacks?

Heck, maybe African animists striking at muslim/arab targets? Would they be freedom fighters?

If they did start using terrorist tactics against Iran, would the continued oppression of Christians then become okay? Would you tell people who said ‘the bombings of Mosques is wrong, but this situation is caused by the oppression of Christians which should be stopped’ that they were supporting terrorists? Or is it different when it’s Christians and not Muslims?[/quote]

Good points. I think we have our answer, Sloth. The problem is “Self Defense” can quickly turn into pretext.

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[quote]Sloth wrote:
will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, executing converts to Christianity would be bad enough, I assume. So, if the law passes in Iran, they’d be freedom fighters.

Would they be freedom fighters to you if they were blowing up mosques and targeting clerics? Killing civilians? Would you think that was wrong but understand the desperate situation and call for it to be changed, perhaps?

Mosques and Clerics that propogate such laws up to the governmental level? Maybe so. They would the ones lobbying for such a law. Markets or everyday civilians? No. Security personnel? Sure. We are talking about laws executing people simply for changing thier religion, after all. [/quote]

And if they were hitting markets or everyday civilians, I imagine you would still condemn these laws, and call for the to end. This is all that is being said in regards to the situation with Islam.

On a different note, I’m not surprised by this development. The hardline religious leadership was an expected result to the Shah’s rule, but it was a only a matter of time before people start moving away from Islam due to how strict it is in Iran. Like the anonymous cleric said, it’s more about leaving Islam than anything else.

63

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Just following up on the theme of Christianity in the ME. Note the caution. But a positive sign, nonetheless.

[i]DOHA, Qatar �?? Qatar’s first Christian church has no cross, no bell and no steeple.
And when 5,000 faithful flock to Our Lady of the Rosary to celebrate its historic consecration this weekend, they pray no one will notice.

Father Tom Veneracion, the parish priest, is worried about a backlash.

“The idea is to be discreet because we don’t want to inflame any sensitivities,” he says. “There isn’t even a signboard outside the church. No signs at all.”

Qatar’s fledgling Catholic community considers its sprawling $15 million saucer-shaped facility a victory. A 15-minute drive into barren desert, it has been built with the blessing of the nation’s emir.

But some people in this Muslim country have branded it an offense; one prominent politician has called for a national referendum to determine its fate.

And as the church lookd forward to its first Easter service, the controversy is getting considerable attention among this gas-rich country’s press.

“The cross should not be raised in the sky of Qatar, nor should bells toll in Doha,” wrote Lahdan bin Issa al-Muhanada, a leading columnist in Doha’s Al-Arab newspaper…[/i]

[/quote]

The great commission is sure to inflame sensitivities.

64

[quote]Sloth wrote:
In other news. Iran’s parliment, fearful of the rapid spread of Christianity, looks set to pass law which would doom apostates to an early death.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222

Should religious minorities, within these types of oppresive and brutal islamic regimes, band together and take up the tactics of islamic terrorists? Meaning, bombing their holy sites and mosques, targeting their clerics, road side bombs against their police and security forces, etc.
[/quote]

This should have been done 20 years ago.

65

[quote]will to power wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, executing converts to Christianity would be bad enough, I assume. So, if the law passes in Iran, they’d be freedom fighters.

Would they be freedom fighters to you if they were blowing up mosques and targeting clerics? Killing civilians? Would you think that was wrong but understand the desperate situation and call for it to be changed, perhaps? [/quote]

If blowing up civilians with car bombs in Iraq makes those people heros in many people’s eyes, then the same could be said for Christians who were doing it. They would be striking back using the same tactics as the terrorists, so they would be terrorists, just for a different cause.

I am sure the US would oppose them as they did the regime in Kosovo which was slaughtering Muslim civilians.

66

[quote]will to power wrote:

And if they were hitting markets or everyday civilians, I imagine you would still condemn these laws, and call for the to end. This is all that is being said in regards to the situation with Islam.
[/quote]

As far as laws goes, you mean the laws killing apostates? Yes, we would probably condemn these laws and also the acts of terror by the Christian or apostate terrorists.

67

[quote]Sloth wrote:
In other news. Iran’s parliment, fearful of the rapid spread of Christianity, looks set to pass law which would doom apostates to an early death.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Religion/?id=1.0.1988866222

Should religious minorities, within these types of oppresive and brutal islamic regimes, band together and take up the tactics of islamic terrorists? Meaning, bombing their holy sites and mosques, targeting their clerics, road side bombs against their police and security forces, etc.

I only ask because of the tendency to examine how, and if, the US brings terrorism upon itself, on this here board. A “Well, what do you expect is going to happen?” So, are oppresive Islamic societies about due some attacks from Christian terrori…ahem, freedom fighters?
Would we examine how Islamic supremacy caused such attacks?

Heck, maybe African animists striking at muslim/arab targets? Would they be freedom fighters? [/quote]

This is so thought-provoking that it deserves its own thread.

Short answer, yes. I would personally support the right of the oppressed to blow up anything that represents the oppressor. The case of Iran, however, is nothing compared to Saudi Arabia.

That said, it is the worst possible way to achieve what they want. Evolutions are taking place in those societies (granted, at their own pace), but they’re still better off in the long run fighting the system through conventional channels, i.e: mobilizing opinion, word-of-mouth, political lobbying, etc. If they start blowing shit up, those regimes will tighten the grip and have a good excuse to step up the oppression of any dissident (not that they ever needed much to start with, but you get the point).

The take-home message is: should they chose to militate in that way, one shouldn’t go around assuming that it’s because of their religion.

I don’t think it will happen though. For obvious demographical reasons. Christians can’t afford to lose lives over there or they will go extinct very very soon.

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Gay American Kid Loses Life

69

It is a crime, not part of a criminal code inforced by the religious government thought police.

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[quote]Gkhan wrote:
It is a crime, not part of a criminal code inforced by the religious government thought police.[/quote]

Absolutely. It was just supposed to shut up the idiots who claim that there’s no racial, sexual or religious discrimination in the US.

71

It is not state sponsored racial, sexual or religious discrimination, so I do not see your point.

72

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
It is not state sponsored racial, sexual or religious discrimination, so I do not see your point.[/quote]

You lost me. Are we still talking about the Netherlands?

73

No, you posted a thread about the US and I responded saying the US government does not sponsor racial, sexual or religious discrimination.

74

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
No, you posted a thread about the US and I responded saying the US government does not sponsor racial, sexual or religious discrimination.[/quote]

Well, la-di-da Cpt. Obvious.

75

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
It is a crime, not part of a criminal code inforced by the religious government thought police.

Absolutely. It was just supposed to shut up the idiots who claim that there’s no racial, sexual or religious discrimination in the US.[/quote]

Last time I checked,no government representative of the U.S. is claiming there are no gay people here.

And who is claiming that discrimination does not exist here?? Look in the mirror…and say Cpt.Obvious. And like it was already noted,this was a crime and is being dealt accordingly. You’re trying to hard. Only a fool doesn’t know when to quit.

76

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
It is a crime, not part of a criminal code inforced by the religious government thought police.

Absolutely. It was just supposed to shut up the idiots who claim that there’s no racial, sexual or religious discrimination in the US.[/quote]

Could you be any more fucking stupid? I’m serious. You have to be a fucking retard.

Produce the quote where anyone said that there is “no racial, sexual or religious discrimination in the US”.

Just produce the quote, or cite the thread where it is has been posted on T-Nation, or shut the fuck up.

Your lies should get your sorry fucking ass banned from this site.

78

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gay American Kid Loses Life

MSN [/quote]

OXNARD, Calif. - Larry King was a gay eighth-grader who used to come to school in makeup, high heels and earrings. And when the other boys made fun of him, he would boldly tease them right back by flirting with them.

I think he should dress like that on his show.