[quote]ephrem wrote:
The first gay couple to be married in NY. Just imagine the danger to society!!!
[/quote]
I can see the traditional family crumbling as we speak. And it was so secure too, before those two old lesbians that have been together for decades and claim to love each other were allowed to marry.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The first gay couple to be married in NY. Just imagine the danger to society!!!
[/quote]
It’s also on the NEWS for a reason, and do you know what reason that is? Come on…take a guess. It’s because that those two old ladies are the EXCEPTION to the rule, not the rule. But you knew that already right? Come on you must have.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
The CDC concludes that the solution is NOT for gays to change their orientation, but for society to accept gays and encourage them to have productive, healthy same sex relationships.
[/quote]
Oh, I get it! It’s society’s fault that gays are promiscuous, spread diseases and have drug, alcohol and mental health problems. And it’s society’s job to fix these problems by logical extension due to the collective guilt of non-homosexuals within society. And society needs to ‘encourage’ homosexuals’ ‘healthy same sex relationships’? The healthy relationships that spread diseases…right-o.
[/quote]
Many issues like drug, alcohol and mental problems arise from problems with society and integration. Sex and relationships are core to human nature and when they are compromised, it backlashes into the psychological health. It’s all logical until here, no?
Now, if society, which includes you and me, were more open minded towards homosexuals and not so intrusive (why do you care so much where they stick their penises or which vaginas they lick?), those mental problems would drastically decrease, 100% guaranteed.
Let’s imagine that 5% of people are homosexual (random number, I think it’s closer to 10%). From that we would guess that one every twenty couples would be homosexual. How many men do you see holding hands? Sharing affection in public? I’m talking about normals days, not gay pride, or whatever. Close to zero. Why? Because people will look at them, judge them, even some insult them.
Do you think this does any good to your mental health?
So yes, society has to do its job and it’s about tolerance. Do you care if the heterosexual couple that is behind you in the grocery queue is into S&M? I’m willing to bet that NO. Mostly, because it’s not your business.
Live and let live.
[/quote]
Your entire theory is wrong. Read the latest data from the Netherlands on homosexual health. Marriage has been there for 10 years and homosexuals are well accepted. But…the negative mental health stats DID NOT COME DOWN.
So, you are WRONG.
Still waiting forlife, where are the healthy statistics on gay men? Where do they lead the way in being happy, healthy and well adjusted? Show us.
And respond to the Netherlands data on why gay men are still NOT happy or healthy and gay marriage has been there 10 years.
You are smart in ignoring me as you have no answers, only tired worn out cliche’s.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
A gay couple got married, had a child, and then divorced…what is the point? Some of the criticisms of gay marriage I’ve found on this site have had value. This isn’t one of them.[/quote]
Depending on which part of the story you’re talking about, they didn’t get divorced. One parent is being denied some abstract morass of a right to see “their” child and buying a divorce ‘under the table’.
It doesn’t seem astoundingly short-sighted to have gay marriage without gay divorce? Just evidence of how little this has been thought through by the majority.
[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
I can understand how the Religious Right wants to ban gay marriage. Why would they want a minority group to FAIL 55% of the time the way they do. BAN DIVORCE !! You did agree to “till DEATH do us part”, correct ?[/quote]
Agreed. Or at least have the foresight to realize that if we’re going to have gay marriage, gay divorce might be a good idea. And while we’re at it, have the gov’t write them both up at once rather than billing us (especially those of us already married) twice (or four times depending on your POV). Hell, two war buddies and one wife or five battered women and 10 children in a shelter should all be able share property and children among themselves, who are we to say or judge?
Good question. Why do we have a Federally recognized marriage at all? Why can any number people transfer wealth and power arbitrarily through corporations but only two people can get married? What benefit(s) do individuals derive from marriage (if any) do they derive those benefits equally from heterosexual vs. homosexual marriage?
Can’t be done all at once, just two at a time, no matter what actual REASONS you might have otherwise. Finally, though, you’re missing the point; we don’t want to have actually clear, contemporary, and useful laws or less intrusive gov’t we just want gays to marry. Checking checkboxes on your tax return, that’s what family’s all about.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Many issues like drug, alcohol and mental problems arise from problems with society and integration. Sex and relationships are core to human nature and when they are compromised, it backlashes into the psychological health. It’s all logical until here, no?[/quote]
No. WTF are you talking about? Drugs, alcohols, and mental problems can be just as much genetic and/or dependent on the individual as environmental. People aren’t exactly driven to schizophrenia and plenty of alcoholics got their start with boredom.
What exactly is an ‘issue’? What do you mean by ‘core’ and could you be more specific about the definition of ‘human nature’? Don’t psychological health determinations veer rather decidedly into values-based decisions? What part of what you said contains the tiniest fraction of logic?
The CDC’s recommendations can easily be made as part of a political agenda and anybody who believes a scientific body acts in a 100% honest and truthful manner 100% of the time hasn’t been a part of the human race very long (I wonder where we got the idea that science should be honest and truthful?).
If a bright productive teenager went out and started doing drugs, you might think there was a mental/social issue and that doing drugs was a symptom; possibly the addiction itself may be the disease. If an abstinent heterosexual teenager suddenly started having risky promiscuous sex, you might suspect there was a mental/social issue and that the sex was a symptom; possibly the sex itself may be the disease. However, if any teenager (heterosexual, homosexual, bi, or asexual) starts having risky promiscuous homosexual sex, the CDC recommends you encourage them to choose a less risky option. Moreover, if you read past the CDC’s Public Service Announcement, you see that promiscuity is inherently risky, certain sex acts are inherently more risky (not all strictly homosexual) and certain sexual sub populations are riskier to be a part of. Oddly enough, rather than issuing statement(s) against promiscuity, risky sex acts regardless of orientation, and certain social circles, the CDC says we need to support homosexuals and facilitate their transition into less personally and socially detrimental roles. The CDC has tried for decades to stem the spread of STDs in homosexual circles. This being the US, the CDC (rightly) doesn’t have the ability to actually enter bedrooms and enforce sex-based laws. Equally, being a gov’t entity oriented around disease, it can’t do nothing in response to the spread of HIV, the CDC can’t throw up its arms and say “We can’t fix it.”, they HAVE to do something. They have to find an actionable problem/solution somewhere. Look around the world, you know where HIV in the MSM community isn’t an epidemic? In nations where, for a variety of reasons, there “are no homosexuals.” It’s funny that we, as a Nation, walk on the ‘excessive’ of so many lines (food, convicts, gun violence, drugs) as a price for our freedoms, but we seem to think that with homosexuality will magically be different.
It’s one thing to talk about what the CDC THINKS you should do or to say “c’est la vie” about the people in line behind you at the grocery store, it’s another to talk about your children or family members and witness people die a slow death from their own destructive behavior. Even if you don’t believe the CDC’s recommendations to be politically motivated, from a social design standpoint, it’s a pretty clear moral hazard (Moral hazard - Wikipedia) akin to the drunk or drug user who claims society cheated him/her or that their family isn’t being supportive enough.
[quote]forlife wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
The first gay couple to be married in NY. Just imagine the danger to society!!!
[/quote]
I can see the traditional family crumbling as we speak. And it was so secure too, before those two old lesbians that have been together for decades and claim to love each other were allowed to marry.[/quote]
They’re coming!!!
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
They’re coming!!![/quote]
No refutation of the incredible sickness in the gay community both physical and emotional. And no retort on why promiscuity is so high. Just a joke.
Well, if that’s all you have.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Edevus wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]forlife wrote:
The CDC concludes that the solution is NOT for gays to change their orientation, but for society to accept gays and encourage them to have productive, healthy same sex relationships.
[/quote]
Oh, I get it! It’s society’s fault that gays are promiscuous, spread diseases and have drug, alcohol and mental health problems. And it’s society’s job to fix these problems by logical extension due to the collective guilt of non-homosexuals within society. And society needs to ‘encourage’ homosexuals’ ‘healthy same sex relationships’? The healthy relationships that spread diseases…right-o.
[/quote]
Many issues like drug, alcohol and mental problems arise from problems with society and integration. Sex and relationships are core to human nature and when they are compromised, it backlashes into the psychological health. It’s all logical until here, no?
Now, if society, which includes you and me, were more open minded towards homosexuals and not so intrusive (why do you care so much where they stick their penises or which vaginas they lick?), those mental problems would drastically decrease, 100% guaranteed.
Let’s imagine that 5% of people are homosexual (random number, I think it’s closer to 10%). From that we would guess that one every twenty couples would be homosexual. How many men do you see holding hands? Sharing affection in public? I’m talking about normals days, not gay pride, or whatever. Close to zero. Why? Because people will look at them, judge them, even some insult them.
Do you think this does any good to your mental health?
So yes, society has to do its job and it’s about tolerance. Do you care if the heterosexual couple that is behind you in the grocery queue is into S&M? I’m willing to bet that NO. Mostly, because it’s not your business.
Live and let live.
[/quote]
Your entire theory is wrong. Read the latest data from the Netherlands on homosexual health. Marriage has been there for 10 years and homosexuals are well accepted. But…the negative mental health stats DID NOT COME DOWN.
So, you are WRONG.[/quote]
"The third paper was a Netherlands study (Sandfort et al. 2001) which again showed a higher level of mental-health problems among homosexuals, but remarkably, subjects with HIV infection was not any more likely than those without HIV infection to suffer from mental health problems. People who are HIV-positive should at least be expected to be anxious or depressed!
The paper thus concluded that HIV infection is not a cause of mental health problems–but that stigmatization from society was likely the cause–even in the Netherlands, where alternative lifestyles are more widely accepted than in most other countries"
Mind that this was in 2001, when marriage was made legal.
Do you want some more?
“An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries â?? in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands. So a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that the psychiatric disease cannot so easily be attributed to social rejection and homophobia”
I’ll just drop some more :
"Discrimination and mental health
In a study that examines possible root causes of mental disorders in LGB people, Cochran and psychologist Vickie M. Mays, PhD, of the University of California, Los Angeles, explored whether ongoing discrimination fuels anxiety, depression and other stress-related mental health problems among LGB people. The authors found strong evidence of a relationship between the two.
Again using data from one of the large public health surveys, the team compared how 74 LGB and 2,844 heterosexual respondents rated lifetime and daily experiences with discrimination.
They looked at particular instances of discrimination, such as not being hired for a job or being denied a bank loan, as well as feelings of perceived discrimination, such as the sense that people treated them with less respect. The team also assessed rates of mental health disorders in both groups.
LGB respondents reported higher rates of perceived discrimination than heterosexuals in every category related to discrimination, the team found.
While the findings do not prove that discrimination causes mental health problems, they take a step toward demonstrating that the social stigma felt by LGB people has important mental health consequences. That again points to the need for tailored mental health treatment, in particular therapy that includes ongoing discussion of how discriminatory experiences may affect stress levels, they note.
The findings are reported in the November issue of the American Journal of Public Health (Vol. 91, No. 11)."
More!
"Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals
By Jane Collingwood
Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.
His team looked at rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.
Four percent had a depressive episode in the last week, compared to two percent of heterosexual people. The rate of alcohol dependence was ten percent versus five percent, and for self-harming it was nine percent versus five percent.
The proportion of homosexual people who described themselves as being fairly or very happy was 30 percent, versus 40 percent for heterosexual people.
Dr. Chakraborty believes the findings are â??very worrying.â?? He said, â??This study is the first time the mental health and well-being of gay, lesbian and bisexual people has been examined in a random sample of the population.
â??Our study confirms earlier work carried out in the UK, USA and Holland which suggests that non-heterosexual people are at higher risk of mental disorder, suicidal ideation, substance misuse and self-harm than heterosexual people.â??
He stated that, although the level of discrimination was low, it was still significantly higher than against heterosexual people. This â??lends support to the idea that people who feel discriminated against experience social stressors, which in turn increases their risk of experiencing mental health problems,â?? he says.
“Perceived discrimination was associated with both harmful effects on quality of life and indicators of psychiatric morbidity in the total sample,” the researchers report. In particular, in the nonheterosexual group, discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation predicted certain neurotic disorders, such as OCD, even after adjusting for confounding variables.
Although the association between discrimination and OCD was somewhat “unexpected,” the researchers say, it jives with a recent systematic review of associated OCD symptoms with self-reported racial discrimination."
So much for my entire theory being wrong, right?
There’s tons of articles and studies that show this. Yet my “entire theory” is wrong.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
So much for my entire theory being wrong, right?
There’s tons of articles and studies that show this. Yet my “entire theory” is wrong. [/quote]
None of what you posted refutes the fact that the many promiscuous homosexuals are depressed, anxious and suicidal BECAUSE they are promiscuous. Sure people can become depressed because they are not “accepted” no question. But there are plenty of large groups of people who are not fully accepted who do NOT have the volume of poor mental health that homosexual men do. Since forliar likes to compare the African American movement to the Homosexual movement, let’s do so. During the darkest days of pre equal rights for Blacks the suicide rate did not even come close to the homosexual suicide rate. Why? Do you know? Can you stop being politically correct long enough to think on your own? Overall it’s their lifestyle that drives their emotional state (which is often lead by their poor physical state) into depression, anxiety and suicide. How many people, homosexual or heterosexual would be happy when they are plagued with disease?
Here’s a piece from that biased right wing conservative site Pub Med (LOL):
And we don’t even really know the half of it as many homosexuals sicknesses are not even reported. Here is a piece from that Christian newspaper the New York Times 
Sex Diseases In Many Gay Men Go Unfound Experts Say
[b]So, you’re telling me that a group of people that lead the way IN…
Gonorrhea, Syphillis, Anal warts, Genitial warts, Anal Cancer, Hepititis A, Hepititis B, HIV/AIDS, and virtually every STD are not happy and well adjusted because everyone does not accept their lifestly?
LMAO!!
Stop drinking the koolaide![/b]
One more reason that they end up so very sick:
Anal Sex (with strangers no less…really what could be more unhealthy than this? With less long term emotional satisfaction)
[quote]Two muscle rings called sphincters surround the anal opening. Each functions independently.
If you insert a finger about one half-inch into your anus and press your fingertip against the side, you can clearly feel the two sphincter muscles. There is less than a quarter-inch between them. The external sphincter is controlled by the central nervous system - just like the muscles of the hand, for example. You can readily tense and relax this sphincter whenever you want.
The internal sphincter is quite different. This muscle is controlled by the involuntary or autonomic part of the nervous system, which governs such functions as heartbeat and stress response.
The internal sphincter reflects and responds to fear and anxiety during anal sex. It will cause the anus to tense up automatically even if the passive partner is trying to relax. Thus, precautions about safety and comfort are essential here.
Even if a person does feel comfortable during anal sex, he or she may still need to learn voluntary control over his or her internal sphincter in order to relax it at will. Doing so requires regularly inserting a finger, perhaps in the shower each day, and feeling the internal sphincter. The muscle changes spontaneously and in response to behavior. In this instance, simply paying attention is more important than trying to relax. Anyone can gradually learn to control the internal sphincter at will.
The rectum does not produce lubrication like the vagina but only a small amount of mucus. Therefore, rectal penetration always requires a lubricant. Chemical additives should be avoided
Since intercourse can be vaginal or rectal, many people assume the same rules apply for the penetration of the vagina and rectum. Although both are lined with soft tissue and are capable of expanding, they are radically dissimilar.
The rectum is not straight. After the short anal canal which connects the anal opening to the rectum, the rectum tilts toward the front of the body. A few inches in, it curves back - sometimes as much as 90 degrees. Then, after a few more inches, it swoops toward the front of the body once again.
All the other risks center on sexually transmitted diseases. Each of the common STDs - gonorrhea, syphillis, herpes - can affect the anus. Intestinal parasites, bacteria or tiny bugs are usually passed along when fecal matter finds its way into someone’s mouth or vagina, most likely through rimming.
AIDS has complicated the matter. The HIV virus can pass from the semen or blood of an infected person to the bloodstream of a partner through a tiny break in the rectal tissue during anal intercourse.[/quote]
Promiscuity, even without disease promotes poor mental heath. You know this right?
[quote]Multiple studies have identified high rates of psychiatric illness, including depression, drug abuse and suicide attempts, among selfprofessed gays and lesbians.74 Some proponents of GLB rights have used these findings to conclude that mental illness is induced by other people’s unwillingness to accept same-sex attraction and behavior as normal.
They point to homophobia, effectively defined as any opposition to or critique of gay sex, as the cause for the higher rates of psychiatric illness, especially among gay youth.75 Although homophobia must be considered as a potential cause for the increase in mental health problems, the medical literature suggests other conclusions.
An extensive study in the Netherlands undermines the assumption that homophobia is the cause of increased psychiatric illness among gays and lesbians. The Dutch have been considerably more accepting of same-sex relationships than other Western countries â?? in fact, same-sex couples now have the legal right to marry in the Netherlands.76 So a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with homosexual behavior in the Netherlands means that the psychiatric disease cannot so easily be attributed to social rejection and homophobia.
The Dutch study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, did indeed find a high rate of psychiatric disease associated with same-sex sex.77 Compared to controls who had no homosexual experience in the 12 months prior to the interview, males who had any homosexual contact within that time period were much more likely to experience major depression, bipolar disorder, panic disorder, agoraphobia and obsessive compulsive disorder. Females with any homosexual contact within the previous 12 months were more often diagnosed with major depression, social phobia or alcohol dependence. In fact, those with a history of homosexual contact had higher rates of nearly all psychiatric pathologies measured in the study.78 The researchers found "that homosexuality is not only associated with mental health problems during adolescence and early adulthood, as has been suggested, but also in later life."79 Researchers actually fear that methodological features of "the study might underestimate the differences between homosexual and heterosexual people."80
The Dutch researchers concluded, "this study offers evidence that homosexuality is associated with a higher prevalence of psychiatric disorders. The outcomes are in line with findings from earlier studies in which less rigorous designs have been employed."81[/quote]
To conclude it’s very sad that so many homosexuals have a difficult time of it. However, like the rest of us, hetero or homo, we make our own choices, good or bad and a result of those choices leads us to either happiness or sadness.
So if promiscuity causes all these mental health problems, we should expect very promiscuous heterosexual people to have similar rates of mental health and drug problems as their gay counterpart, no?
Anybody have any data on this?
If I put funny pictures of gay marriage protest placards up, can we please stop beating gay marriage/civil union/whatever to death for 15minutes and talk about anything else. Like literally anything?
[quote]Agressive Napkin wrote:
So if promiscuity causes all these mental health problems, we should expect very promiscuous heterosexual people to have similar rates of mental health and drug problems as their gay counterpart, no?
Anybody have any data on this?[/quote]
But if you read my post it is more than promiscuity (not that this does not add to their problems, it does indeed). But how can someone be happy who is plagued with disease? A large number of homosexual men are battling some sort of physical ailment. In fact, according to the New York Times article as horrific as the number of gay diseases are, they’re actually UNDERSTATED. Obviously this CAN cause unhappiness. And who is responsible for this? GAY MEN. Just as each of us are responsible for our own decisions which either lead to or away from happiness.
When you separate the politically correct logic from the real deal things do start to make sense.
[quote]Bambi wrote:
If I put funny pictures of gay marriage protest placards up, can we please stop beating gay marriage/civil union/whatever to death for 15minutes and talk about anything else. Like literally anything?
Funny how supporters of gay marriage offer only jokes. In response to facts. Also, keep in mind if you don’t like the thread all you have to do is refrain from clicking on it.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
While the findings do not prove that discrimination causes mental health problems, they take a step toward demonstrating that the social stigma felt by LGB people has important mental health consequences.[/quote]
So it’s not necessarily actual descrimination, just the perceived discrimination or “felt social stigma”, right?
That, pretty clearly, states highly individual treatments on a personal level, which is rather the opposite of blanket government-issued public statements applied unequivocally and uniformly.
[quote]Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.
His team looked at rates of mental disorder among 7,403 adults living in the UK, whose details were obtained from the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey 2007. Rates of depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, phobia, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and alcohol and drug dependence were significantly higher in homosexual respondents.
…[/quote]
Great, good work, nearly fully agreed and acknowledged.
Somehow I doubt it’s THE first. Maybe in some small science community in the UK, it’s new…
So, it wasn’t THAT new. See, in academic circles just like in advertising, “First” or “new” gets more people to pay attention to you and give you money even if your data isn’t really new. It’s not really science, but despite their best efforts, scientists often play politics.
So, despite levels of discrimination they feel compelled to describe as ‘low’, homosexuals still suffer? My signal processing and statistics education tell me that, a strong correlation is one that scales well with response. A ‘statistically signficant’ (low) stimulus with a ‘worrisome’ (high) response indicates that even if you eliminate the stimulus, you’re still likely to get statistically significant, if not ‘worrisome’ levels of response. I’m not talking about strictly quantitative numbers or strict proven causality, but then neither is the good doctor when he extrapolates/interpolates between ‘low’ discrimination and homosexual mental health issues.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
“Perceived discrimination was associated with both harmful effects on quality of life and indicators of psychiatric morbidity in the total sample,” the researchers report. In particular, in the nonheterosexual group, discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation predicted certain neurotic disorders, such as OCD, even after adjusting for confounding variables.[/quote]
Read this paragraph very loudly to yourself. When your done, tell us kindly;
1.) Is this a randomized trial, a controlled experiment, an observational study, or a relatively statistical anecdote.
2.) If I were to invent a drug that cured homosexuals of all mental illness, which of the above studies would I need to conduct?
4.) Is the issue discrimination or just the perception of discrimination?
Read the literature, you and the good doctor, are making (the usual) associations that just don’t ‘jive’. Twin studies show a strong genetic component to OCD, similar methods show strong environmental (and weak genetic) component to homosexuality. Outside Nazi Germany, I don’t know of extensive twin studies and race, but I presume it safe to say that they demonstrate a strong genetic component. I know this may be hard for people to swallow, but sexual orientation is, at best, vaguely similar to race.
Moreover, the neurological pathways, regions of the brain, and pharmaceutical (even surgical!) treatments for OCD are well understood. Not so much for homosexuality (despite forlife’s best assertions). OCD and OCD symptoms are clearly defined psychological and behavioral abnormalities. People like yourself, the CDC, and forlife outright refuse the idea of defining homosexuality and/or ‘homosexual symptoms’ as psychological or behavioral abnormalities (despite common sense and the potential usefulness).
[quote]Bambi wrote:
If I put funny pictures of gay marriage protest placards up, can we please stop beating gay marriage/civil union/whatever to death for 15minutes and talk about anything else. Like literally anything?[/quote]
I apologize, I started this thread to talk about Greece’s financial bailout, but people misinterpreted the title and, well, it took off from there. If you’ve got funny Greek bailout placards, I’d love to see those.
Somewhat off topic, but I thought this was germane for comparisons between gay couples behavior and heterosexuals. Seems the gays aren’t the only ones routinely banging other folks, married or not. This was an archived snippet so unfortunately I couldn’t provide a straight link to it:
It is probably also worth pointing out that if you had no hope of ever getting married wouldn’t you be banging a bunch of different folks to? Not a lot of celibate lifelong bachelors among heterosexual men either I wouldn’t think. The only reason gay men probably have an edge on heterosexual men is that both partners have the sex drive of a man.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Bambi wrote:
If I put funny pictures of gay marriage protest placards up, can we please stop beating gay marriage/civil union/whatever to death for 15minutes and talk about anything else. Like literally anything?
Funny how supporters of gay marriage offer only jokes. In response to facts. Also, keep in mind if you don’t like the thread all you have to do is refrain from clicking on it. [/quote]
I really don’t care I just wanted an excuse to post that link. I thought it was quite funny really.