Gas Prices

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

Here’s my $.02, well, since everything else is going up, here’s my $.03…

Today gas prices hit my area at $2.99 a gallon for the “cheap stuff” $3.39 for “good stuff” - Bottom line is, it’s ridiculous. Last year at this time we were paying like $1.40, what justifies n 100% increase???

Really, where’s it going to stop? Do you know that oil companies profits are up 44% - 44% - So basically everything they sell, they are profiting just about half.

Of all the times the government should step in… is now… Instead of them worrying about our supplements they should look at our gas companies and start regulating them…

The other thing I don’t get. Last night on the way home from work. Gas was at $2.48, this morning it went up to $2.99 - and it was $2.99 EVERYWHERE… Now, we all know that every single gas station didn’t get a fresh tank of gas… The station probably had that feul in it’s tanks since last week when the prices where lower, so why the increase overnight? Doesn’t make sense…

If you think about it, at least how I do… Most things are going to go up because of these gas prices. The trucking industry (how we get most of our items from docks to warehouses to stores) are going to have to charge more, so we are going to start paying more for just about everything. I can’t see how the economy can survive if something isn’t done…

I think Alaska is the ticket. I know the envirnmentalist don’t want drilling there, but I heard that there is like 2 million acres of land that they are preserving, but only need, I forget 400 or 4000 acres to drill and get oil. I don’t see the problem here. Start drilling!!! Oh yeah… I don’t care if the bushawacka wacka mesquito only resides there on those 4000 acres… Who cares??? What does it do for us anyway? We need oil, not bug bites…

I know it’s not all him, but in my opinion we’d be better off going to Disney World and find the person in the Mickey costum and have that person run the country!!!

62

I looked around and couldnt find much from some major media sources, so…

does anyone have links to articles that REALLY explain what the hell is going on with gas prices. My suspicion is that there is rampant gouging and profiteering,
but I would like to see solid evidence.

As much as I believe in the free market, if the government just keeps their blinders on about this forever, we are going to choke on our oil-based economy.

Also, can anyone explain how oil and gasoline companies are seeing 40 and 50 % profit increases. Isnt this counterintuitive if they keep crying to us about shortages and high crude costs?

63

[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
Let’s drill in Alaska…

This is probably the ultimate goal of the oil companies. Maybe even why OPEC is bottlenecking the supply. To scare Americans into allowing drilling in Alaska.[/quote]

Would love to but my spouse is Active duty army and works every day – as a firefighter I work every third day. So I drive in one day, drive home the next then I have a day off with no long distance driving. Start the cycle over again.

64

[quote]LJ4174 wrote:
The other thing I don’t get. Last night on the way home from work. Gas was at $2.48, this morning it went up to $2.99 - and it was $2.99 EVERYWHERE… Now, we all know that every single gas station didn’t get a fresh tank of gas… The station probably had that feul in it’s tanks since last week when the prices where lower, so why the increase overnight? Doesn’t make sense…
[/quote]

I’m not defending Big Oil, but I do have several clients that sell gas. If the prices are going up - like they are now - the staion owners price their gas based on what the next load of fuel will cost them to replace what they sold. I hope that makes sense.

Now my clients are all independent guys, so I only know how they price their gas. I have no idea how the coporate guys price theirs.

65

[quote]rainjack wrote:
As long as oil stays in the 35-45 dollar range pump prices will stablize, and There will still be an incintive for domestic exploration.
[/quote]
We haven’t seen this price/barrel in a long time (it’s now around $70). It’ll never get this low again. As supply decreases and the means to extract it become more difficult/expensive (due to the volume needed verses what still exists) it will only get more expensive.

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
We haven’t seen this price/barrel in a long time (it’s now around $70). It’ll never get this low again. As supply decreases and the means to extract it become more difficult/expensive (due to the volume needed verses what still exists) it will only get more expensive.[/quote]

Less than 10 years ago LSC (Light Sweet Crude) was selling for 8 bucks a barrel. Break even prices that would support domestic exploration was 20 bucks/barrel.

It is cyclical. OPEC is at best a bunch of spoiled cousins that don;t trust each other. All it takes is for one of them to break with the cartel, and you’ll see prices fall faster than a lead baloon.

As far as your argument about being scarcer and harder to find oil - thqrt is just not true. We have more accesible deposits now than we had 10 years ago. There is no shortage of crude oil. That is just a lie.

67

[quote]rainjack wrote:
We have more accesible deposits now than we had 10 years ago. There is no shortage of crude oil. That is just a lie. [/quote]

This may be true. But it does us no good if we cannot tap them–or if they belong to other coutries.

How does the Alaska issue affect prices? Personally I would rather pay $3/ga than mess up a wilderness area.

Why are we not exploring other fuel sources? Bio deisel is not only a possibility it would bring jobs to the US–thus killing three birds with one stone: less dependence on foreign oil; help stabilize fuel prices; add to the US economy.

68

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
We have more accesible deposits now than we had 10 years ago. There is no shortage of crude oil. That is just a lie.

This may be true. But it does us no good if we cannot tap them–or if they belong to other coutries.

How does the Alaska issue affect prices? Personally I would rather pay $3/ga than mess up a wilderness area.

Why are we not exploring other fuel sources? Bio deisel is not only a possibility it would bring jobs to the US–thus killing three birds with one stone: less dependence on foreign oil; help stabilize fuel prices; add to the US economy.
[/quote]

First off - I don’t agree with the premise that drilling an ANWAR will mess up the wilderness area. That is just propaganda put out by the tree huggers in my opinion. I don’t agree with the idea that offshore drilling is hazerdous to the environment either.

I’m sorry - I may be a selfish capitalist pig, but I could give a shit if the green-billed warbler loses a nesting area because there is a 3 billion barrel reserve underneath their special nesting tree.

I’m all for alternative energy sources. But that’s not a feasible solution in the near term, and everyone that is pushing that idea knows it.

69

[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
rainjack wrote:
We have more accesible deposits now than we had 10 years ago. There is no shortage of crude oil. That is just a lie.

This may be true. But it does us no good if we cannot tap them–or if they belong to other coutries.

How does the Alaska issue affect prices? Personally I would rather pay $3/ga than mess up a wilderness area.

Why are we not exploring other fuel sources? Bio deisel is not only a possibility it would bring jobs to the US–thus killing three birds with one stone: less dependence on foreign oil; help stabilize fuel prices; add to the US economy.

First off - I don’t agree with the premise that drilling an ANWAR will mess up the wilderness area. That is just propaganda put out by the tree huggers in my opinion. I don’t agree with the idea that offshore drilling is hazerdous to the environment either.

I’m sorry - I may be a selfish capitalist pig, but I could give a shit if the green-billed warbler loses a nesting area because there is a 3 billion barrel reserve underneath their special nesting tree.

I’m all for alternative energy sources. But that’s not a feasible solution in the near term, and everyone that is pushing that idea knows it.
[/quote]
We are already using bio-diesel. All we need to do is up production and start growing more efficient crops to produce the necessasary oils. If commercial viehicles alone switched to bio-diesel we would see a secondary effect of lowering consumer prices.

As far as oil production not being a detriment to the environment, have you ever walked on the gulf coast and gotten tar on your feet? Tar is a byproduct from petrol production. I realize that there are those who believe that human life is the end-all-be-all; however, every organism affects the chain and when the oceans or wilderness areas suffer so do it’s inhabitants–and so do we. This is not from a tree hugger perspective–this is from a logical perspective. Maybe we won’t see effects today (though I will argue otherwise) but sooner or later will. By then it will be too late.

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
We are already using bio-diesel. All we need to do is up production and start growing more efficient crops to produce the necessasary oils. If commercial viehicles alone switched to bio-diesel we would see a secondary effect of lowering consumer prices.[/quote]

If you have to preface you idea with “all we have to do is…” then you make my point for me. Long Term? I agree 100%. Biodiesel, ethanol, LPG, fuel cells - they’re all excellent ideas - but it means dick in the near term (3 years or less).

I disagree. I don’t think the earth is a zero-sum game. It is a living, breathing, growing, changing organism. the earth heals and adapts - maybe not on the timetable you want to see, but it happens. I don’t think man is capable of bleeding the planet dry.

Life faces extinction every day. What is the number? Like 95% of all existence is now extinct? I can’t remember - but it’s something like that. The earth adapts and keeps on living.

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[quote]rainjack wrote:
If you have to preface you idea with “all we have to do is…” then you make my point for me. Long Term? I agree 100%. Biodiesel, ethanol, LPG, fuel cells - they’re all excellent ideas - but it means dick in the near term (3 years or less).
[/quote]
If we don’t do something because it doesn’t reap benefits in the near term then we will be in trouble later. Think personal investing–time is the biggest factor. The longer we wait the harder it gets to back up and “re-do” what we’ve already missed. I agree in the short term it won’t effect anything, but I am thinking further ahead than tomorrw. The infrastructure to support bio-diesel already exists!

As far as the rest of your argument–I respectfully disagree. It is ilogical to chalk-up everything to the “life will work itself out” argument. Life is fragile. We are already seeing a warming effect due to air pollution–and I’ll argue that til the day I die. The argument that it’s not documented nor is it provable won’t wash either–too many scientists agree that it may be a factor. I still like breathing and I doubt human life will adapt fast enough to keep up with the fast changes of the environment due to pollution, etc.

72

Well, everyone can cite research based acticles that offer rationales for high gas prices, everyone can offer expert opinions and everyone can offer their own opinions but the truth of the matter is that the average American is screwed.

We can’t boycott the oil industry, we wouldn’t make a dent and it would require great sacrifice on our part such as not driving vehicles at all.

We can hope that some genius invents vehicles that run on alterative fuels such as hydrogen but then water would be sky high expensive and so would any other alterantive fuel, eventually.

We can hope for government regulation but Mr. Bush’s family riches came from high oil pricing on and on and on…again, the fact of the matter here is that we are screwed…take a deep breath and resign to this…we are at the mercy of these oil giants.

You may be willing to make an individual sacrifice such as riding a bicycle everyday (and who would even give a damn in the oil industry about that?)but your point would be pointless except that you’d make your life that much more difficult. WE ARE SCREWED AND WE CAN’T DO A DAMN THING ABOUT IT.

MB

73

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Jagrazor wrote:
This is probably the ultimate goal of the oil companies. Maybe even why OPEC is bottlenecking the supply. To scare Americans into allowing drilling in Alaska.

How would the US drilling for oil in Alaska benefit foreign oil companies? Please, oh please, explain this vast conspiracy to me…[/quote]

Well, I guess saying this might have been assuming a lot. But I figured the companies would BID to drill, and those companies that are controling OPEX - I really don’t know much about this - would be the ones with the most money to BID with.

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[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
Mage… . time will tell… . but Id like to know how far your research into peak oil goes thats youve discounted many independantly researched predictions. …[/quote]

Hey Gl;itch.e,

What I am discounting is not research, but the doom and gloom crowd that takes this stuff and predicts the end of the world.

There is no doubt that we do not have an endless supply of light sweet crude, and eventually we will hit a peak. But there is a large disagreement as to exactly how much there is. The peak crowd prefers the lower estimates, and too often when the higher estimates are given, they are discounted.

Also since we have not yet hit the peak, any connection between current prices and the peak cannot be made until we actually hit the peak.

Another problem with the peak crowd is they too often act like nothing can replace oil. Like it is some magic substance and nothing is like it.

A third problem is that the market is never taken into account. Has anyone else noticed the increase in motorcycles and reduction in SUV’s and vans on the road? When peak oil really hits, the market will respond.

Unfortunately I ran out of time, so I will finish this later.

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3.199 in Indiana, for those who care.

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Gas prices can suck my hard fat cock, I just paid 3.29 because they were out of regular. Get fuckin’ real man, you wanna talk about price gouging. This is one instance where the govt. regardless of affiliation needs to step in and protect the citizens of this country.

77

[quote]snipeout wrote:
This is one instance where the govt. regardless of affiliation needs to step in and protect the citizens of this country.[/quote]

So they could fuck it up like everything else the government touches. I’d rather see the government apply economic pressure indirectly, like by funding research into alternative fuels and opening up additional areas to place oil refineries.

78

There are so many misconceptions on this thread I do not even know where to start addressing them. I have spent the better part of my adult career in the energy industry, specifically refining, refined products, storage and trading. It never ceases to amaze me how little people know about industries other than the one they work in, yet this does not stop them from stating as fact anything that they may have heard on news channels.

(see ?Don?t Kill the Rat? posted by TC today. http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=743955 )

Think of it this way, the energy industry is one of the most complex and globally effected commodity industries in the world, yet people with no experience preach what needs to be done to fix it and are constantly pointing the finger at “evil” oil companies and OPEC as the villains.

This is tantamount to a newbie posting bodybuilding advice on this site, and then saying things like, ?deadlifts are bad for your back?, ?squats are bad for your knees?, and "you should isolate the bicep with concentration curls in the squat rack to maximize growth?. What would your response be to this person? Please stop stating fact and solutions to an industry if you have very little experience with it outside of filling your gas tank. Now get back to that isolation work.

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[quote]bigflamer wrote:
I was wondering what everyone thought about this. Yesterday I was listening to Rush (I know your all shocked at that) and someone called in and said that the federal government could stabalize gas prices right now if they wanted to. All they would have to do is standardize EPA regulations on fuel for every state.

You see, pretty much every state has their own standards and regulations as it relates to fuel. Hence the need for refineries to make forty different kinds of fuel. Years ago when gas prices in California skyrocketed due to an oil refinery explosion, they couldn’t buy it from a neighbor state, but had to have it trucked in from several states over. This was suposedly due to it’s neighbor states not being compatible with their EPA standards for fuel.

Point being that if refineries could make one type of fuel and neighboring states could purchase fuel from each other, prices would stabalize.

Waddaya think?[/quote]

In response to the original post, your information regarding the different grades of gasoline is accurate, but the effect of standardizing the regulations would not bring prices down as much as poeple think.

Don’t get me wrong, this would certainly help with supply constraints, disruptions, and refinery outages/cleanings, but the underlying price of the commodity would still be there. Gasoline supplies would just be more easily traded.

80

[quote]fatsensei wrote:
I don’t know much about it but it does seem insane how much they are charging us. Again I don’t know much about it but I believe there are only a few refineries out there and I would think that if one of them decided to charge $.50 less per gallon then the other guys then they would corner the market.

But on the bright side we’re making some f’n Arabs filthy rich.

FatSensei[/quote]

Your opening line states your lack of knowledge, but it doesn’t stop you from offering a solution. How exactly would you corner the market with a limited supply of a commodity? Why would you want to charge less than market rates on a commodity in a supply constrained environment?

This is not a Biotest supplement here. There is no premium or discount for a certain supplier’s product. All grades of gasoline offered in a market are interchangeable. People already shop on price and are buying at the current market rates, why would you possibly lower your rates when you are running a business?