Gains Leveling Off, Week Seven Test Enanth

Pharma / TRT
1

I’m wondering if using my AI is affecting my gains.

The AI issue has been one of the most difficult for me to figure out. Currenly, I’m pinning 750mg of Test Enanth per week and dosing .25 adex ED. No gyno whatsoever, and very minimal bloat. However, I’m in week seven, and my gains have leveled off.

During weeks 1-4 I dosed Dbol at 40mg/day on top of my test, and it was really amazing. My starting weight was 165 (no comment on that…) and now I’m at 181, 5’8", and I’ve already shed the dbol water gains. But the past fourteen days have seen no gains whatsoever. Maybe I’m at my maximum already for this cycle, but surely, with five weeks left, there are still some gains left in me. Diet is good - about 3800 clean calories a day, training very hard and disciplined, and definitely have lots of strength and size increases. Am I getting greedy to expect more gains, or is my AI possibly hindering?

Afraid going off AI will give me limp-d*ck due to excess estrogen, but I guess I should just wait and see and keep researching…LittleRunt (PS: saw a similiar post, but didn’t want to highjack someone else’s…)

2

3800 clean calories. Wow eat more. I would say around 5000+ gain mofo gain!!! Invest in some gainer shakes if you need to top off the protein and cals. Then just keep plugging away.

3

Get more calories in. Your gains will come right back.

Another reason why I perfer a higher dose/shorter cycle is that most people sill see their gains start to diminish around this time.

However in your case I would up my calories and watch those scale lbs climb.

4

Yeah, definitely time to shock your body with a cheat day and then get a whole lotta calories!!!

16 lbs, ain’t bad though!

5

also… drugs dont guarantee gains, how long you used the same training program, reps, volume, intensity, load, exercises, rest, TUT, advanced techniques? huh? HUH??

6

I agree with everyone else up the ‘calories’ and watch the ‘numbers on the scale’ increase.

Then come back and ask if you can ‘cut’ during PCT because you have ‘gained’ to much.

7

Agrees, you need more calories. I am cutting on 3800/day. When I start to really add weight I will consume at least 6000/day.

8

The buildup of SHBG may also play a role in the diminishing gains… but I could be entirely wrong.

I’ve run that same cycle before for 8 weeks. For what it’s worth, I didnt see any gains in the last week.

9

Jsus! what is it with everyone?! CUTTING ON 4000KCAL?? how big are you pain? 260lbs? gotta be…

I cut on about 2800 and down and bulk anywhere from 3700-3800+ nowhere near 6000… but i dont count when i REALLY eat so maybe…

I still wanna hear about his program a little…

10

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
The buildup of SHBG may also play a role in the diminishing gains… but I could be entirely wrong.

I’ve run that same cycle before for 8 weeks. For what it’s worth, I didnt see any gains in the last week. [/quote]

I would DEFINITELY advise adding proviron… if not already, then when the gains stop! Shit, good good call!!

11

I maintain on 3600 a day lol, but im a greedy bastard, anyways, up it 500 - 1000 calories for 4 days and review fat/muscle gained ratio, then up or cut them just slightly.

12

Ya, you a big guy… you got alot more muscle than i do so it stands to reason

13

[quote] JJ wrote:
Jsus! what is it with everyone?! CUTTING ON 4000KCAL?? how big are you pain? 260lbs? gotta be…
[/quote]

Not just yet, my heaviest was 245. But now I am down to about 235. I have a high metabolism and I’m still kinda young. I’m sure in future years to come I will be able to tone down my eating and still get good gains. I actually look forward to that day, eating like this is work. But on the plus side my cardio is minimal and I’m still leaning out so I should just shut up.

14

[quote]retailboy wrote:
I agree with everyone else up the ‘calories’ and watch the ‘numbers on the scale’ increase.

Then come back and ask if you can ‘cut’ during PCT because you have ‘gained’ to much.[/quote]

^^I duno if my sarcasm in my first sentence was picked up.

Thanks JJ and bone for pointing out the things by others are VERY unique to their situation… a huge list of possibilities.

I could speak a lot about this ‘calorie’ thing… lets just say I have gained same amount of muscle on 4500 calories and 2000 calories gaining the same amount and weighed within 10 lbs of eat diet.

The difference: the food choices - 2000 calorie was not crap sources like whey, oatmeal, etc. I would sit down and eat raw milk, 3 apples a sitting, 50 carbs of GREEN veggies, Olive oil and fish for fat.

All I’m saying is people and what they eat are different we need your whole life story to know why… but try our suggestions but NONE of them is the right way. For example if you know you will gain fat on more cals and are already gotten chunky lil then sont’ add cals… if you’ve only been on cylce for less then 12 weeks and you took a adequate break before it - don’t get proviron.

Just what I think… no disrespect to the posters, ALL valid and possible problems. It just scared me when the four first and only posts were ‘WTF you eating so little up the calories’ … you will be surprised how little you have to eat to gain muscle but the correct foods must be chosen.

Just as an example Porter Cottrell IFBB pro PREACHED about this… he GAINED muscle the couple years leading up to his 5th place at the Olympia on 1700 cals.

15

“if you’ve only been on cylce for less then 12 weeks and you took a adequate break before it - don’t get proviron…”

But i dont beieve this to be true at all… IT isnt true in my years of using the drug, it is ALWAYS beneficial… and should be added to every test cycle.
Jesus, 12 weeks? You think SHBG only rears its head at 12 weeks if you have been off cycle?
Can i have the paper discussing this…?

JJ

16

[quote] JJ wrote:
“if you’ve only been on cylce for less then 12 weeks and you took a adequate break before it - don’t get proviron…”

But i dont beieve this to be true at all… IT isnt true in my years of using the drug, it is ALWAYS beneficial… and should be added to every test cycle.
Jesus, 12 weeks? You think SHBG only rears its head at 12 weeks if you have been off cycle?
Can i have the paper discussing this…?

JJ[/quote]

EXACTLY… you are proving my point TBH thosse are examples that he shouldn’t take to heart -100 % truth like other recommendations - just my experience I actually just found something that works better than ‘proviron’ that I can tell so far for helping HPTA, NOT SHBG… But sheeps don’t like my method so I keep it under wraps.

Anyway my point you just proved is it ‘ALL DEPENDS’ and the cals this kid is taking in and his weight… SOOOO many people larger than him have BULKED off of more.

Nothing to debate unless you think one of these answers on here are the end all to this kids problem.

You kinda feel me JJ?

17

There are no 100% truths in the actions of one drug or method on more than one person.

This is BODYBUILDING this is all about anecdotal evidence, often the scientific evidence doesnt match what the guys in the gym are finding to be true…

You take more stock from what a drug insert says over someone like me saying it - why is that? Do you think it is because they thoroughly understand the exact action of the compound and how it will affect people? NOPE!! its because they have run trial over trial and logged all the effects/side effects and wrote them on your insert! Just like i have done with myself, except with me, it is in the same context as this lad so my indings are likely to be highly relevant - i am not suggesting that any of the answers are “the holy grail” WTF? This is about conversation, advice, shared knowledge…

My experience with provirion over many years in the bodybuilding context cross referenced with the insert is as accurate a reading of effect you can get IMO.

I have noticed SHBG effects from proviron (in the manner of increased effect from the parent drug) in cycles less than 12 weeks, considerably so actually.

I see what you are saying, but i disagree… if we ONLY spoke of methods we had scientific data to back up, there wouldnt be much of a site… Many of the scientific data as it relates to Bodybuilding was done AFTER the anecdotal evidence came to light!

You seem to have a faulty misconception of the medical/FDA industry in that you think that scientific data is more reliable than anecdotal… how so? It is rarely used in humans, and when it is - rarely in the sort of context we use it in (in stacks, the type of training, diet, stresses of cycling, years of history of training, AAS…). This is a forum for converstion and debate. Not a scientific paper.
Anecdotal evidence makes up the MAJORITY of bodybuilding information and knowledge… pullovers for rib cage expansion, high reps for definition, protein at 2g per KG, 3x10, posing practice for conditioning purposes, i could go on and on and on…

OBVIOUSLY it all depends, that should be a given - i personally dont think he needs to just start eating more, i think for his size, that should be enough - but it DEPENDS on metabolism, lifestyle etc…etc…etc!
The beauty of coming here with a problem, is the variety of answer you get. I posted a posing thread on the BB forum, i printed it off when it was done - stacked full of varied and relevant info… ALL OF WHICH WAS ANECDOTAL!

Conversation and personal experience is what our whole life, our whole culture as Human Being is based on! i think you have made a mistake in the philosophy of human learning.
trial and error is the base of everything we do.

JJ

18

Okay, so here’s the real deal:

I’m 5’8", and have gained some REALLY NICE POUNDS since starting my test cycle seven weeks ago (750mg/week). Specifically - I’ve gained SIXTEEN pounds, and my body fat has only risen from 9% to 11% - so I’m not complaining too terribly much.

I will up my calories by about 500+ each day and see what happens with gains/fat/muscle. I’m pretty confident that my diet is clean and strong - so I’ll knock back a gainer shake that’s 650 calories with good protein/carb ratio. Will wait and see. Surely for someone my size 4500 is a good gaining caloric amount. Trial and error will tell.

BUT:

I’m wondering if my gains are leveling off. Week seven brought no new poundage, and week six only 1 pound. My body reacted amazing well to the dbol, and I was thinking to myself, “Now the test enanth will kick in and my gains will increase again.” My original concern was that my AI was going to hinder my gains - but maybe I’m jumping the gun. I’m debating stopping the .25adex ED.

I’ll be patient. Really, I will. After all, my three rep max on the bench press is now 305 - up a full fifty pounds. Damn, it feels good.

I work out five times a week, hitting chest and back twice usually, and the others once. All compound when possible, and I definitely always vary my workout. Thanks for all the input guys - it’s helps immensely. LittleRunt

19

How about completing the cycle and see what you get. Then review for another cycle and tweek it.

Or you could take my position which is, You get what you get. If you stop short of your goals then you have to do it again(oh I bet your crying on that one). Point is enjoy the ride and do it again till you get to your goal. Then maintain.

20

I think you done well… gains may have stalled… this happens. As i wrote before, aas dont guarantee gains. You may need to reassess your training, i personally doubt you need any more calories… if you are eating enough of an excess to gain ANY fat, calories are unlikely to be the answer (assuming insulin is Low, fat is decent and fibre is high)

I am a little peeved that you are shocked at the halt of your gains as if “But But… i’m taking STEROIDS, how cant i be growing?” This is why people are advised against it if their training and diet isnt in place… and this is why the more experienced users know their shit RE: training, diet, supplementation… because AAS are a small part of this, any dick can take dbol and test and grow, not any dick can grow for a long time and become a bodybuilder physique. that takes a special dick…

0.25mg adex will/should not be reducing your gains. if you stop you will surely get bigger… tits! and the water will increase. The slight reduction in anabolism is from a much reduced estro level, i am sure you have enough anabolism and estrogen! I would not stop you AI at week 7 at 750mg, that is very stupid IMO.

If you want to increase calories do so, but could you please give a detailed breakdown of how long you been using this training program, what is the split/volume/intensity/load/rest and which out of those variables have changed at all over the past 2 months. Be truthful now, fabricating will not help you out.,.!

If you have proviron on hand i would 100% recommend it personally… but i am a fan.