Gaining Slowly?

Training
21

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Maybe I’m missing something or everyone else here eats at Golden Corrall for every meal or something, but measuring food when you’re cooking your own meals is far from rocket surgery.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Once you’ve spent a small chunk of time (a few weeks, months perhaps) actually putting in the considerably small effort of taking note of measurements of what you’re eating to meet your requirements, you can very easily eyeball things. However, if you’ve always been eyeballing, chances are you’re not as precise as you may think.

S

22

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:

Eat some more cals the next few weeks (for me was carbs I increases first) and re-check.

[/quote]

How much more food? And how much more cals? And just how are you going to figure this out without calculating or at least portion control (eg, handful of carbs, palm size of meat portion, etc.)[/quote]

Dude are you dieting for a show or what? I Just add around 50g - 100g of carbs to my post work out meal - extra rice usually, over the course of a week or two If I goi mental and splurge on crap I smooth out and feel bloated. Know ones body. If i’m smoothing out I’ll maybe reduce carbs and add some fats.I respect Stu’s opinion about the measuring etc, but he’s a competing bodybuilder and ‘the devil is in the details’ at that level. You wanna be the the guy who carries around chicken breasts and broccoli in tuperware and breaks out in a sweat when someone offers to order pizza(No offence meant Stu but I used to live with a ameteur bobybuilder who did these things and others…Clen freak-outs and all sorts) Stu looks better than I ever had or will so if that’s where you wanna be he’s the man to heed. If you can’t ‘eye’ your portion control of clean foods maybe weighing what you eat for a few weeks will give you an idea of where your at in terms of macronutriients. Just try shit out and see what happens. Why stress?
[/quote]

I get your point. It’s just that there’s a new trend of power shoveling food going on.
[/quote]
Its the opposite isnt it? I think the new trend is to have a smaller shovel

23

[quote]steven alex wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]moogweasel wrote:

Eat some more cals the next few weeks (for me was carbs I increases first) and re-check.

[/quote]

How much more food? And how much more cals? And just how are you going to figure this out without calculating or at least portion control (eg, handful of carbs, palm size of meat portion, etc.)[/quote]

Dude are you dieting for a show or what? I Just add around 50g - 100g of carbs to my post work out meal - extra rice usually, over the course of a week or two If I goi mental and splurge on crap I smooth out and feel bloated. Know ones body. If i’m smoothing out I’ll maybe reduce carbs and add some fats.I respect Stu’s opinion about the measuring etc, but he’s a competing bodybuilder and ‘the devil is in the details’ at that level. You wanna be the the guy who carries around chicken breasts and broccoli in tuperware and breaks out in a sweat when someone offers to order pizza(No offence meant Stu but I used to live with a ameteur bobybuilder who did these things and others…Clen freak-outs and all sorts) Stu looks better than I ever had or will so if that’s where you wanna be he’s the man to heed. If you can’t ‘eye’ your portion control of clean foods maybe weighing what you eat for a few weeks will give you an idea of where your at in terms of macronutriients. Just try shit out and see what happens. Why stress?
[/quote]

I get your point. It’s just that there’s a new trend of power shoveling food going on.
[/quote]
Its the opposite isnt it? I think the new trend is to have a smaller shovel[/quote]

I personally prefer to use a spoon or a fork.

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
i personally think adjusting cals up by 500 is way too much for a natty-- i know this is going to make me sound lame–but i seriously make a adjustments that may be only 50- 100 cals at a time— im very consistent and NEVER EVER ONCE miss a meal. i notice changes sometimes by just bumping up carbs by 15 grams. however recently ive been thinking of adding an extra 50 grams to my diet which may be the end of my off season. we’ll see.[/quote]

For some reason, I didn’t figure we would have guys saying to count calories down to 1.5% accuracy in this forum.

Seems pretty fucking unreasonable (not to mention unrealistic) if you’re not dieting for a show.
[/quote]

Agreed…but when you have the same posse from the bodybuilding forum ganging up here as well, this is what you get.[/quote]

Whats the problem X was this thread ticking along nicely on topic and not about you enough? Jesus you have to be the worst thing about this site

25

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
My thoughts exactly. Once you’ve spent a small chunk of time (a few weeks, months perhaps) actually putting in the considerably small effort of taking note of measurements of what you’re eating to meet your requirements, you can very easily eyeball things. However, if you’ve always been eyeballing, chances are you’re not as precise as you may think.

S[/quote]

This exactly. I used to eyeball my food and realized I have either over/under estimated the amount of macros in the food that I have been consuming when I began tracking properly. After a while, it just becomes a habit of doing it and part of my lifestyle. There is no real hassle and only takes a couple of minutes a day.

26

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
i personally think adjusting cals up by 500 is way too much for a natty-- i know this is going to make me sound lame–but i seriously make a adjustments that may be only 50- 100 cals at a time— im very consistent and NEVER EVER ONCE miss a meal. i notice changes sometimes by just bumping up carbs by 15 grams. however recently ive been thinking of adding an extra 50 grams to my diet which may be the end of my off season. we’ll see.[/quote]

This is how Ebomb has me making adjustments.[/quote]

I think the natty vs not natty thing is slightly blown out of proportions sometimes

Wether you are natty or not 3500cals = 1pound… i think

I PERSONALLY WOULD, if I didnt have someone decide for me, go up by 500cals and then see if im gaining at a rate I like, too fast, too slow, etc

I ALSO PERSONALLY THINK THAT, for someone training hard, if you stay at the same caloric intake for a long time and your weight just stays the same, you body composition will eventually start changing anyways, albeit veryyyyy veryyyy veryyyy slowly (this is where being assisted would accelerate the process a LOT).

all this is IMO so I may very well be totally wrong…but im goign from what ive seen and experienced

27

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
i personally think adjusting cals up by 500 is way too much for a natty-- i know this is going to make me sound lame–but i seriously make a adjustments that may be only 50- 100 cals at a time— im very consistent and NEVER EVER ONCE miss a meal. i notice changes sometimes by just bumping up carbs by 15 grams. however recently ive been thinking of adding an extra 50 grams to my diet which may be the end of my off season. we’ll see.[/quote]

For some reason, I didn’t figure we would have guys saying to count calories down to 1.5% accuracy in this forum.

Seems pretty fucking unreasonable (not to mention unrealistic) if you’re not dieting for a show.
[/quote]

Agreed…but when you have the same posse from the bodybuilding forum ganging up here as well, this is what you get.[/quote]

Dude what the hell… yes some people like to count their calories even if not competing… why is this so weird to you

28

Seconded. Huge waste of my first couple years lifting, not taking the small investment in time to do this. Making the best gains I’ve ever made right now, and I’m 2.5 years in. For anybody unhappy with their progress, I truly believe that this is key - not force feeding yourself even when your strength levels should suggest otherwise…

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Maybe I’m missing something or everyone else here eats at Golden Corrall for every meal or something, but measuring food when you’re cooking your own meals is far from rocket surgery.[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. Once you’ve spent a small chunk of time (a few weeks, months perhaps) actually putting in the considerably small effort of taking note of measurements of what you’re eating to meet your requirements, you can very easily eyeball things. However, if you’ve always been eyeballing, chances are you’re not as precise as you may think.

S[/quote]

29

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
I will say this, if you are someone who cooks the majority of their own food, then counting calories is not in any way difficult, give you take about 3 minutes each day to think about what you’re eating. Like I said, I use an app on my phone to tally it up and I have saved meals since I tend to eat a lot of the same things. Literally next to no extra effort expended.

For instance, my normal training day meals right now are usually along the lines of:

meal 1: breakfast
1c (dry) oatmeal - use the 1c measure to scoop it out of the container
1c frozen berries - same 1c measure to scoop them out of the bag
1tbsp coconut oil - use a spoon to get it out of the jar, not difficult
2 scps protein

meal 2: lunch
9oz chicken or beef - I actually weigh this, but I have an electronic scale that only requires me to set the container I’m packing my food in on it, press a button, and then measure the food
2c rice - same as with the fruit and oats, scoop it out of the big gladwear with a 1c measure
veggies - I throw a handful of these in, don’t count them

meal 3: training
usually a carbohydrate bar (power bar or finibar or something) - no need to measure and 20g of casein hydrolysate, measured by the scoop in the container. Not difficult.

meal 4: Dinner
I like breakfast supper a lot lately, so it’s usually
2 eggs - no need to measure these
1.5c egg whites - I scramble the eggs/whites in a measuring cup, so I dump the whites out of the carton into the measuring cup up to the 1.5c line, add my eggs, salt, pepper, and whisk
.5c (dry) grits - scoop them out of the bulk storage container with a .5c measure and use the same measure to add the 1.5c water that I cook them in
.5 tbsp kerrygold butter - this is easy for me to eyeball since it’s always about the same amount chopped off of the bar
1 oz ff cheddar cheese- this is easy as well, as it’s about a ping-pong ball sized pinch.

Maybe I’m missing something or everyone else here eats at Golden Corrall for every meal or something, but measuring food when you’re cooking your own meals is far from rocket surgery.[/quote]

Are you no longer doing lean gains?

30

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
I will say this, if you are someone who cooks the majority of their own food, then counting calories is not in any way difficult, give you take about 3 minutes each day to think about what you’re eating. Like I said, I use an app on my phone to tally it up and I have saved meals since I tend to eat a lot of the same things. Literally next to no extra effort expended.

For instance, my normal training day meals right now are usually along the lines of:

meal 1: breakfast
1c (dry) oatmeal - use the 1c measure to scoop it out of the container
1c frozen berries - same 1c measure to scoop them out of the bag
1tbsp coconut oil - use a spoon to get it out of the jar, not difficult
2 scps protein

meal 2: lunch
9oz chicken or beef - I actually weigh this, but I have an electronic scale that only requires me to set the container I’m packing my food in on it, press a button, and then measure the food
2c rice - same as with the fruit and oats, scoop it out of the big gladwear with a 1c measure
veggies - I throw a handful of these in, don’t count them

meal 3: training
usually a carbohydrate bar (power bar or finibar or something) - no need to measure and 20g of casein hydrolysate, measured by the scoop in the container. Not difficult.

meal 4: Dinner
I like breakfast supper a lot lately, so it’s usually
2 eggs - no need to measure these
1.5c egg whites - I scramble the eggs/whites in a measuring cup, so I dump the whites out of the carton into the measuring cup up to the 1.5c line, add my eggs, salt, pepper, and whisk
.5c (dry) grits - scoop them out of the bulk storage container with a .5c measure and use the same measure to add the 1.5c water that I cook them in
.5 tbsp kerrygold butter - this is easy for me to eyeball since it’s always about the same amount chopped off of the bar
1 oz ff cheddar cheese- this is easy as well, as it’s about a ping-pong ball sized pinch.

Maybe I’m missing something or everyone else here eats at Golden Corrall for every meal or something, but measuring food when you’re cooking your own meals is far from rocket surgery.[/quote]

Are you no longer doing lean gains? [/quote]

My work schedule makes it inconvenient and Ebomb is doing my diet, so if he says breakfast, I eat breakfast.

31

I measure and weigh 90% of my meals. And I absolutely freak about when the office orders donuts, pizza and bagels!! lol. That makes me neurotic? There is a psychological aspect to this too, these are “trigger foods” for most people.

Do I plan on or even have the genetics to compete…LMAOxinfinity. Doesn’t change the fact that food is a variable I’d like to be able to tweak on this journey and the only way to do that is logging.

But I totally appreciate how much of a pain in the arse it is for most folks. On the flip, those who are unwilling to track shouldn’t ridicule those that ARE willing to track.

32

[quote]giograves wrote:
I measure and weigh 90% of my meals. And I absolutely freak about when the office orders donuts, pizza and bagels!! lol. That makes me neurotic? There is a psychological aspect to this too, these are “trigger foods” for most people.

Do I plan on or even have the genetics to compete…LMAOxinfinity. Doesn’t change the fact that food is a variable I’d like to be able to tweak on this journey and the only way to do that is logging.

But I totally appreciate how much of a pain in the arse it is for most folks. On the flip, those who are unwilling to track shouldn’t ridicule those that ARE willing to track.[/quote]

It becomes about progress made.

If your neurotic behavior is keeping you from making much progress and keeping you from getting way bigger, you may need to adjust your approach.

I don’t think anyone should be ridiculed for keeping tabs.

33

agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?

34

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?[/quote]

It’s not even a “hardcore attitude”, it’s what do I use to move my food from the big gladware in the fridge to the gladware I’m taking to work?

35

It’s actually not even hardcore considering any weight conscious person should learn how to calculate or at least portion control (a better option for “normal people”, the lifter’s immortal foe).

36

lol yeah it’s very easy to do, especially with using myfitnesspal or a similar app

I would go on to say that it’s made things easier, as I’m more precise with my intake. Before when I was looking to lose I would undershoot calories, and when I was looking to gain I would overshoot.

37

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?[/quote]

It isn’t.

Having the mind set that your body needs adjustments to the tune of 100cals increases is.

he problem here is many of us understand how easy it is for a newb with minimal understanding to get caught up in the numbers instead of the changes desired.

If you can do this and not get trapped mentally, fine…but if that were happening most, there would be way more really built people here.

38

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?[/quote]

It isn’t.

Having the mind set that your body needs adjustments to the tune of 100cals increases is.

he problem here is many of us understand how easy it is for a newb with minimal understanding to get caught up in the numbers instead of the changes desired.

If you can do this and not get trapped mentally, fine…but if that were happening most, there would be way more really built people here.[/quote]

this may not be everyone’s reality but what I see the most from guys having trouble gaining is actually the like of “well im eating a fuckload and im not growing”

“ok how many calories are you eating aprox”

“uh…?”

If you tell someone like this to “eat more” he wont know

  1. what he should add
  2. how much
  3. when

This might result in that said individual

  1. not adding enough
  2. not adding the right things
  3. adding too much and then since you are a noob you just go by scale weight and you are happy cause its moving up but you do not realize ur adding a ton of fat cause you watch urself every day but do not know what to look for

this might not be everyone’s reality but its what I see happening the most from guys looking to grow

they either

  1. dont grow
    or
  2. add weight… and then they are fat and when they finally decide to cut down they are stuck with the same problem cause they dont know how to eat less… and then its the same problem again… they will take out too much food too fast… look at the scale be happy cause its working… but will be losing muscles
39

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[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?[/quote]

It isn’t.

Having the mind set that your body needs adjustments to the tune of 100cals increases is.

he problem here is many of us understand how easy it is for a newb with minimal understanding to get caught up in the numbers instead of the changes desired.

If you can do this and not get trapped mentally, fine…but if that were happening most, there would be way more really built people here.[/quote]

Here’s how it works.

Say my average for week 1 of a reverse diet is set at 2700 calories. That’s not set in stone 2700 calories exactly every day…it may be +/-30-50 calories on a day-to-day ba,sis. 2700 is a ballpark number. So my totals may end up 2720, 2650, 2750, 2705, 2720, 2660, 2700…and that averages out to around 2700. I’m not spilling over any at that level and my weight stayed where it was at, so the next week Evan gives me 15g additional carbs and 9g additional fat, or about 105 calories, for a total of 2805. That week, I end up 2780, 2800, 2850, 2820, 2770, 2790, 2815…once again coming out to an average of about 2800 calories but still allowing me to be flexible with my food choices and not forcing me to follow a precisely laid out meal plan.

I’ve attached a picture of my coach. As you can see, at 220 lbs and natural, he’s grossly underdeveloped.

40

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
agreed, I don’t see what’s so wrong with measuring food. Why is this hardcore attitude seen as a bad thing lately?[/quote]

It isn’t.

Having the mind set that your body needs adjustments to the tune of 100cals increases is.

he problem here is many of us understand how easy it is for a newb with minimal understanding to get caught up in the numbers instead of the changes desired.

If you can do this and not get trapped mentally, fine…but if that were happening most, there would be way more really built people here.[/quote]

Here’s how it works.

Say my average for week 1 of a reverse diet is set at 2700 calories. That’s not set in stone 2700 calories exactly every day…it may be +/-30-50 calories on a day-to-day ba,sis. 2700 is a ballpark number. So my totals may end up 2720, 2650, 2750, 2705, 2720, 2660, 2700…and that averages out to around 2700. I’m not spilling over any at that level and my weight stayed where it was at, so the next week Evan gives me 15g additional carbs and 9g additional fat, or about 105 calories, for a total of 2805. That week, I end up 2780, 2800, 2850, 2820, 2770, 2790, 2815…once again coming out to an average of about 2800 calories but still allowing me to be flexible with my food choices and not forcing me to follow a precisely laid out meal plan.

I’ve attached a picture of my coach. As you can see, at 220 lbs and natural, he’s grossly underdeveloped.[/quote]

How tall is he?