'Full House' ???

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

…Anyway, I think it’s a good idea, but can’t see if one would go to the extremes it takes to get to 5 to 7% bodyfat…

[/quote]

So “it’s a good idea” to “go to the extremes (emphasis mine) it takes to get to 5 to 7% bodyfat” but it’s not a good idea to go to the “extreme” of putting on a little extra fat while building muscle on a bulk?

How does that make sense? I don’t get it.[/quote]

Exactly. There is a double standard based on what is most popular.[/quote]

They must not teach reading comprehension in dentist school.
He’s saying there’s no point for someone not competing to get that low. Of course you twist what is said to further your straw man arguement that everyone else is saying to say ripped forever.

But I do want to throw this out there, I’ve read all these Prof X shitstorm threads. The one thing I really agree with him on is that not everyone gains optimally at the same bodyfat, CT even touched on this. I for example started off skinny fat at like 18% bf a few years ago. Now I stay between 12-18%, because for me getting below 12 requires losing to much strength (my main goal atm).

Eventually once I feel I have enough muscle I will cut down and get leaner, hopefully after switching to maintaining weight I’ll regain said lost strength. That is a long term plan though. Atm I’m slightly chubby and cool with it, going to drop a few pounds over summer and then repeat.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see some here still want to argue.

[/quote]

Nobody argued while you were gone…it was downright peaceful.

Crazy huh.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I see some here still want to argue.
[/quote]

The sure do…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Moving past that, once again, the point is that no, not everyone actually looks more impressive dieted down to contests shape…which is really all this forum is about.
[/quote]

Not everyone does, but lots do, and it’s a matter of opinion. We already know yours. But thanks for reiterating.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I posted a picture of Ntiforo in the off season…which is pretty much the condition he finds comfortable to gain and make progress at without trying to remain so lean it holds back progress. I would imagine that is the goal of most of us.
[/quote]

Oh we get it. It may work for some. Not so much for others. LOL at SO lean, cause that’s what’s being preached here, kids.

You’re right. I can’t even recall the number of times I seen this statement posted: “You need to stay SO lean that you won’t progress optimally”. What is wrong with people

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Simply put, yes, some people actually do look more impressive in the off season than they do on stage (there are other examples)…which is closer to the condition many of us are describing here.
[/quote]

adnauseum

We understand your preference.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have no desire to be fat for the sake of being fat. I have no thoughts that fat helps you gain more muscle in and of itself aside from the concept of leverage and even fascial stretching or the idea of holding a weight during the process of gaining with the goals of making it easier to hold that weight with more muscle.[/quote]

However, some have been saying that FOR SOME, holding even a “respectable” amount of extra fat may hinder gains or be unnecessary. But for some reason this is beyond comprehension and a personal attack. Or just flat out wrong.

Can’t imagine why someone would take it that way.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

…Anyway, I think it’s a good idea, but can’t see if one would go to the extremes it takes to get to 5 to 7% bodyfat…

[/quote]

So “it’s a good idea” to “go to the extremes (emphasis mine) it takes to get to 5 to 7% bodyfat” but it’s not a good idea to go to the “extreme” of putting on a little extra fat while building muscle on a bulk?

How does that make sense? I don’t get it.[/quote]

I think that’s the point, most people never need to get to a true 5-7% (stage condition), just as most people don’t truly need to pack on so much adipose. The extreme leanness helps stage competitors, the extreme bulk (not necessarily muscle, but size, leverage etc) can help powerlifters and strongmen. Neither really applies to the everage gym rat who wants to pack on muscle and look good IMO.

Of course even getting down to an honest 10-12% is beyond most people’s willingness to achieve, which I think was the point of the initial comment.

S[/quote]

If Brick would’ve said “10 - 12%” my keyboard would not have been engaged. I think 10 - 12% is a worthy goal to which many people should aspire at some point, and like you, I don’t think it’s extreme.

I do think 5 - 7% is extreme and it takes some true dedication to get there. It also cannot be characterized as “healthy.” Of course, neither can an unreasonable level of obesity.

I think we all can agree the middle ground, and its accompanied “healthiness,” is the goal (in regards to this thread). The debate here is over the boundaries of the middle ground. Well, the boundaries are not sharp and well defined. Hence, 'round and 'round and 'round we go, where we stop nobody knows.

I CAN say that in my personal case, having started lifting at the ripe old age of 35, I inched along with small gains and kept my bodyfat levels relatively low for several years – just like many are advocating. Yes, it worked. I went from 165 - 185 and looked pretty good for Joe Average Gym Rat Blow. I was skin calipered at 8 - 11% a few times and probably strayed up to ~15%.

But I got bored with it. I wanted some “radical” change. I was 47 years old and wanted to get significantly bigger. I had always been the small guy growing up and even though 165 - 185 is not necessarily “small” I decided Joe Average Gym Rat Blow was not to be my goal any longer.

I threw away my inhibitions about not seeing my abzzz and went on a tear. I ate and I ate and I ate and I lifted and I lifted and I lifted like I had never done before. Guess what? Really significant changes occurred. Did I get too fat? Yes, probably from an aesthetic standpoint. I did not get too fat from a strength standpoint – it is true that extra weight, yes, adipose tissue can help make you stronger. No doubt about it.

I chased numbers. I caught them too. I didn’t necessarily care about the aesthetics. Being bigger and stronger, but not leaner, was flat-out an exhilarating experience. Example: I started really deadlifting at the age of 45. At 51 I nailed six plates and weighed 225 after being a small guy in all my younger years. I Kroc-rowed the 150’s for 35 reps per side at my present age of 52. I nailed a 638 lbs trap bar dead just three months ago. I was, and am, still rock climbing, waterskiing, dirt biking, hiking, snowmobiling and fucking! a ton too.

Bottom line is there definitely is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat. But I did NOT achieve the “bigger/stronger” goal until I popped the cork and quit trying to be so fucking “careful.”

Having said all that, right now I’m around 220 at 16 - 18% and I do want to lean out a bit. I will get there.[/quote]

Good post.