'Full House' ???

Training
1021

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Really? Where have you seen me write “ignore nutritional changes”? in fact, I wrote to initially not make huge changes in diet. You seem to see what you want…which makes discussions pointless.[/quote]

…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Someone new should first get in the gym with minimal changes to diet.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Minimal changes to diet equals “ignore it”? Since when?[/quote]

min�·i�·mal
/Ã??minÃ??mÃ??l/
Adjective
Of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible.[/quote]

Minimal changes means exactly that. Maybe you should stop trying to “read into” what is written and actually just read it.

minimal changes does not imply ignoring anything. If anything at all, it means pay more attention so you can avoid making huge changes.

At least debate at a level worth the time to type this.

Right now, it is like you are just looking for anything to complain about.

Stating that “minimal” now means “ignore” is ridiculous and childish.

1022

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not.
BTW I doubt that anyone would not be impressed as fuck with PX’s “physique” (hate that word) if he walked into a room. That includes walking in with or without a shirt on.(I do not mean to insinuate with that statement that you do not think PX is impressive or not or that you deny that he has built a lot of muscle).
[/quote]

I think at this point you can see the problem with these posters is NOT what I am writing here.

1023

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not.
BTW I doubt that anyone would not be impressed as fuck with PX’s “physique” (hate that word) if he walked into a room. That includes walking in with or without a shirt on.(I do not mean to insinuate with that statement that you do not think PX is impressive or not or that you deny that he has built a lot of muscle).
[/quote]

I think at this point you can see the problem with these posters is NOT what I am writing here.[/quote]

I noticed that a long time ago. I’m not that slow.
:slight_smile:

1024

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not. [/quote]

I don’t know if he’s 25% or above because I can’t see his body from a variety of angles or see it in entirely. I’ve speculated it’s 25% or so though. Maybe he is 25% or more (obese); maybe he isn’t. But believing or thinking he is 25% or more isn’t unreasonable.

1025

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not.
BTW I doubt that anyone would not be impressed as fuck with PX’s “physique” (hate that word) if he walked into a room. That includes walking in with or without a shirt on.(I do not mean to insinuate with that statement that you do not think PX is impressive or not or that you deny that he has built a lot of muscle).
[/quote]

I think at this point you can see the problem with these posters is NOT what I am writing here.[/quote]

I noticed that a long time ago. I’m not that slow.
:)[/quote]

You two care to explain what’s “problematic” with my post here?

X, where did our discussion–I mean debate–go?

1026

1680×1050 155 KB

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]super saiyan wrote:

Best post.[/quote]

Donny Most[/quote]

West Coast[/quote]

Next Host[/quote]

Best Roast[/quote]

Bless’d Host

BAM!
[/quote]

West Boast

I could do dis all DAY…
[/quote]

Space Ghost

1027

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Really? Where have you seen me write “ignore nutritional changes”? in fact, I wrote to initially not make huge changes in diet. You seem to see what you want…which makes discussions pointless.[/quote]

…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Someone new should first get in the gym with minimal changes to diet.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Minimal changes to diet equals “ignore it”? Since when?[/quote]

min�?�·i�?�·mal
/Ã???minÃ???mÃ???l/
Adjective
Of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible.[/quote]

Minimal changes means exactly that. Maybe you should stop trying to “read into” what is written and actually just read it.

minimal changes does not imply ignoring anything. If anything at all, it means pay more attention so you can avoid making huge changes.

At least debate at a level worth the time to type this.

Right now, it is like you are just looking for anything to complain about.

Stating that “minimal” now means “ignore” is ridiculous and childish.
[/quote]

My point is that, depending on what their habits are like, something more than minimalchanges may be necessary. If you have a kid come to you wanting advice and his daily food looks like:

Breakfast: mountain dew, cheetos
Lunch: subway sandwich
Dinner: 2 slices of pizza
Late night: cheezits

Do you still recommend “minimal” changes?

1029

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not. [/quote]

I don’t know if he’s 25% or above because I can’t see his body from a variety of angles or see it in entirely. I’ve speculated it’s 25% or so though. Maybe he is 25% or more (obese); maybe he isn’t. But believing or thinking he is 25% or more isn’t unreasonable.
[/quote]

I get your point that we cannot definitively state his BF% due to insufficient data.

I, however, cannot wrap my head around calling someone with an outline of abs obese. I understand that it is possible I just find it highly unlikely. And it is not just his abs showing signs of definition. His chest, arms and traps all show separation and definition. He also posted a pic of his back in the powerlifting forum in a thread called “big back”. That pic did not show a fat, obese persons back. It showed a big fucking back. As in a lot of muscle. It was not sloppy at all.

1030

Speaking of not making drastic changes, you were just shitting on some other posters and I in another thread for making small increases in calories in order to affect progress. If you want to debate, at least be consistent.

1031

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

lol dude come on

your comparison with height would be along the lines of being 6 foot and someone saying are you 5’11 and you say no actually im 6 foot

then another guy coming along and saying hey are you 5’9???

one would be a reasonable guess the other would be dumb

it is dumb to say that pic is of 25% you dont need 10 other photos from all angles to make a reasonable/casual estimate

you are a smart guy and are obviously trolling saying this stuff

25%BF is flat out very fat

the other comparisons with donnie thompson or bolton dont make sense either those guys are like 350+ and are clearly grossly fat along with being strong/having muscle

the pic posted is not grossly fat by any stretch and is 100lbs+ lighter than either of those 2

1032

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not. [/quote]

I don’t know if he’s 25% or above because I can’t see his body from a variety of angles or see it in entirely. I’ve speculated it’s 25% or so though. Maybe he is 25% or more (obese); maybe he isn’t. But believing or thinking he is 25% or more isn’t unreasonable.
[/quote]

I get your point that we cannot definitively state his BF% due to insufficient data.

I, however, cannot wrap my head around calling someone with an outline of abs obese. I understand that it is possible I just find it highly unlikely. And it is not just his abs showing signs of definition. His chest, arms and traps all show separation and definition. He also posted a pic of his back in the powerlifting forum in a thread called “big back”. That pic did not show a fat, obese persons back. It showed a big fucking back. As in a lot of muscle. It was not sloppy at all.[/quote]

Thanks for communicating in a reasonable manner with me (not being sarcastic).

PERHAPS if people EMOTIONALLY DISCONNECT from the word OBESITY, perhaps they can see where people who use this word OBJECTIVELY are coming from.

AD NAUSEUM: “holding weight well”, “semblance of _____”, “Vascularity in the _______”, “not sloppy”, do not exclude someone from being 25% or more bodyfat.

There are varying degrees of obesity, which I’m sure you’re aware of, and people can have the less severe form of the condition and “not look sloppy” (another subjective term) depending on how much muscle they carry and how they distribute fat over the entire body.

You said he has visible musculature in the traps, chest, and arms, which can remain “neat” (opposite of sloppy perhaps?) even in obesity provided the person has non-severe obesity or overweight.

Giveaways that are more useful are the lower back and abdomen and waist size. If someone is NATURAL (no anabolic drugs), normal height, and sports a 38 to 40 inch pants size, he’s probably quite fat.

1033

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not.
BTW I doubt that anyone would not be impressed as fuck with PX’s “physique” (hate that word) if he walked into a room. That includes walking in with or without a shirt on.(I do not mean to insinuate with that statement that you do not think PX is impressive or not or that you deny that he has built a lot of muscle).
[/quote]

I think at this point you can see the problem with these posters is NOT what I am writing here.[/quote]

I noticed that a long time ago. I’m not that slow.
:)[/quote]

You two care to explain what’s “problematic” with my post here?

X, where did our discussion–I mean debate–go?[/quote]

I don’t see anything problematic in your post and was just responding to X’s statement. I probably should of removed the quoted portion above his remark.

In regards to his comment:

I have noticed that very often when certain posters respond to what X writes it is in a different manner/style then when they respond to others. This happens regardless of what X posts. It happens whether he writes something intelligent or not. It happens whether or not he is being argumentative or not. I am not including you specifically into this group nor do I wish to “name names” but the fact of the matter is there is most definitely bias present in some posters minds when answering X’s posts and thus they (his posts) receive a connotation, so to say, no matter what he writes it is viewed in a certain light.

Do you agree or disagree that there is bias present in some posters responses to PX? I hope I clarified what i meant.

1034

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not. [/quote]

I don’t know if he’s 25% or above because I can’t see his body from a variety of angles or see it in entirely. I’ve speculated it’s 25% or so though. Maybe he is 25% or more (obese); maybe he isn’t. But believing or thinking he is 25% or more isn’t unreasonable.
[/quote]

I get your point that we cannot definitively state his BF% due to insufficient data.

I, however, cannot wrap my head around calling someone with an outline of abs obese. I understand that it is possible I just find it highly unlikely. And it is not just his abs showing signs of definition. His chest, arms and traps all show separation and definition. He also posted a pic of his back in the powerlifting forum in a thread called “big back”. That pic did not show a fat, obese persons back. It showed a big fucking back. As in a lot of muscle. It was not sloppy at all.[/quote]

Thanks for communicating in a reasonable manner with me (not being sarcastic).

PERHAPS if people EMOTIONALLY DISCONNECT from the word OBESITY, perhaps they can see where people who use this word OBJECTIVELY are coming from.

AD NAUSEUM: “holding weight well”, “semblance of _____”, “Vascularity in the _______”, “not sloppy”, do not exclude someone from being 25% or more bodyfat.

There are varying degrees of obesity, which I’m sure you’re aware of, and people can have the less severe form of the condition and “not look sloppy” (another subjective term) depending on how much muscle they carry and how they distribute fat over the entire body.

You said he has visible musculature in the traps, chest, and arms, which can remain “neat” (opposite of sloppy perhaps?) even in obesity provided the person has non-severe obesity or overweight.

Giveaways that are more useful are the lower back and abdomen and waist size. If someone is NATURAL (no anabolic drugs), normal height, and sports a 38 to 40 inch pants size, he’s probably quite fat. [/quote]

I agree with everything you just wrote.

1035

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Really? Where have you seen me write “ignore nutritional changes”? in fact, I wrote to initially not make huge changes in diet. You seem to see what you want…which makes discussions pointless.[/quote]

…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Someone new should first get in the gym with minimal changes to diet.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Minimal changes to diet equals “ignore it”? Since when?[/quote]

min�??�?�·i�??�?�·mal
/Ã???minÃ???mÃ???l/
Adjective
Of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible.[/quote]

Minimal changes means exactly that. Maybe you should stop trying to “read into” what is written and actually just read it.

minimal changes does not imply ignoring anything. If anything at all, it means pay more attention so you can avoid making huge changes.

At least debate at a level worth the time to type this.

Right now, it is like you are just looking for anything to complain about.

Stating that “minimal” now means “ignore” is ridiculous and childish.
[/quote]

My point is that, depending on what their habits are like, something more than minimalchanges may be necessary. If you have a kid come to you wanting advice and his daily food looks like:

Breakfast: mountain dew, cheetos
Lunch: subway sandwich
Dinner: 2 slices of pizza
Late night: cheezits

Do you still recommend “minimal” changes?[/quote]

No one working out hard is going to have such a minimal appetite to begin with.

1036

Dear Lord.

Kids, I am not obese. If you see someone who looks like I did in that pic, calling them obese will make you look dumb.

Please don’t be stupid, kids.

1037

[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Really? Where have you seen me write “ignore nutritional changes”? in fact, I wrote to initially not make huge changes in diet. You seem to see what you want…which makes discussions pointless.[/quote]

…

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Someone new should first get in the gym with minimal changes to diet.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Minimal changes to diet equals “ignore it”? Since when?[/quote]

min�??�??�?�·i�??�??�?�·mal
/Ã???minÃ???mÃ???l/
Adjective
Of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible.[/quote]

Minimal changes means exactly that. Maybe you should stop trying to “read into” what is written and actually just read it.

minimal changes does not imply ignoring anything. If anything at all, it means pay more attention so you can avoid making huge changes.

At least debate at a level worth the time to type this.

Right now, it is like you are just looking for anything to complain about.

Stating that “minimal” now means “ignore” is ridiculous and childish.
[/quote]

My point is that, depending on what their habits are like, something more than minimalchanges may be necessary. If you have a kid come to you wanting advice and his daily food looks like:

Breakfast: mountain dew, cheetos
Lunch: subway sandwich
Dinner: 2 slices of pizza
Late night: cheezits

Do you still recommend “minimal” changes?[/quote]

No one working out hard is going to have such a minimal appetite to begin with.
[/quote]

That’s pretty much what I ate for my first 8 months of training and I was lifting with some big guys who did their absolute best to murder me each workout.

1038

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:
Are we agreed that 25%+ is obese?
Are we agreed that PX has a faint outline of abs in that pic?
Are we agreed that obese people do not have faint outlines of fucking anything?
Can we agree PX is not 25%+ in that pic?[/quote]

  1. Yes. Obesity is characterized by 25+%. So someone who is 25% or more is by definition obese and this includes people who lift weights and has semblance of abs.
  2. Faint outlines of abs, or the permabulkers favorite terms, “Semblance of abs” and “holding weight well” don’t exclude someone from being obese. There are obese strongmen who have definition in the thighs and arms, “semblance of abs”, and vascularity at the arms.
  3. No, not agreed. See statement 2 above.
  4. No, we can’t agree because we’re ESTIMATING, which isn’t KNOWING. But judging from his pics, he could reasonably be estimated in the low to mid 20’s, which somehow became an insult or discredits his muscular gains. Maybe I should get upset when people estimate my height or state my eye color or any other of my physical characteristics. [/quote]

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not.
BTW I doubt that anyone would not be impressed as fuck with PX’s “physique” (hate that word) if he walked into a room. That includes walking in with or without a shirt on.(I do not mean to insinuate with that statement that you do not think PX is impressive or not or that you deny that he has built a lot of muscle).
[/quote]

I think at this point you can see the problem with these posters is NOT what I am writing here.[/quote]

I noticed that a long time ago. I’m not that slow.
:)[/quote]

You two care to explain what’s “problematic” with my post here?

X, where did our discussion–I mean debate–go?[/quote]

I don’t see anything problematic in your post and was just responding to X’s statement. I probably should of removed the quoted portion above his remark.

In regards to his comment:

I have noticed that very often when certain posters respond to what X writes it is in a different manner/style then when they respond to others. This happens regardless of what X posts. It happens whether he writes something intelligent or not. It happens whether or not he is being argumentative or not. I am not including you specifically into this group nor do I wish to “name names” but the fact of the matter is there is most definitely bias present in some posters minds when answering X’s posts and thus they (his posts) receive a connotation, so to say, no matter what he writes it is viewed in a certain light.

Do you agree or disagree that there is bias present in some posters responses to PX? I hope I clarified what i meant.[/quote]

Waiting for the response to this.

1039

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

That’s pretty much what I ate for my first 8 months of training and I was lifting with some big guys who did their absolute best to murder me each workout.[/quote]

Gee, then that would mean you did NOT do what was recommended here and watch the scale and the mirror and the weights used.

No one said eat the same no matter what. What was said was get in the gym FIRST and see what the fuck happens so you can make changes based on the results.

THAT is what is IMPLIED and BLATANTLY WRITTEN OUT.

1040

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

Do you believe PX is obese in his current state? I believe that he is not. [/quote]

I don’t know if he’s 25% or above because I can’t see his body from a variety of angles or see it in entirely. I’ve speculated it’s 25% or so though. Maybe he is 25% or more (obese); maybe he isn’t. But believing or thinking he is 25% or more isn’t unreasonable.
[/quote]

It is actually quite unreasonable unless you are simply biased after this many people responding otherwise.