[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
bodybuilding is about a combination of
size
proportion
leanness
[/quote]
WRONG
Bodybuilding is about improving your physical appearance (body) in a way that you like
I learned that today[/quote]
Dang! I have been wrong all these years. It’s good to have you looking out for me Z
[quote]Professor X wrote:
How do we disagree? We all do what falls in line with what we are comfortable with.[/quote]
we disagree with how much fat we like to carry. Everything else I’d say we are on the same page.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
i know…and I understand that. I don’t have to get naked for someone to say, “Holy shit, look at your muscles”. I personally would rather be there than really lean and was smaller so no one could tell unless wearing club clothes.[/quote]
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
I think probably what you envision as your end goal has a big part to play as well. I’ve never particularly wanted to be a 300lb mass monster, I don’t think my tiny bone structure would suit it. My end goal has always been 200lbs at a disgustingly freaky level of leanness. For such a goal, you probably wouldn’t ever need to be “full house,” but for HOLY SHIT size you probably would.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit).
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
we disagree with how much fat we like to carry. Everything else I’d say we are on the same page.
[/quote]
How much fat I like to carry has changed. I am leaner now than I have been in years and have maintained that for a very long time. I got way bigger before because my goal was to simply gain more size and get stronger.
The take away message is, many of us believe that someone who spends years just working on size IS going to make more [progress than the guy throwing on the breaks every time he loses an ab.
That is just common sense.
I wouldn’t expect the guy who is going to law school and working nights to make the most progress by constantly fretting that he isn’t 10% body fat. Someone like that will likely make way more progress overall if they eat in a way that allows them to make tons of progress without hindering their other goals.
That is why most guys who look like me are not in careers that literally took many years of heavy school after college.
It is about the journey…and yeah, the approach I took worked for me. It is up to you to decide what works for you.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
You are in good shape, but I mean BIG people noticing you lift, not the average person today who still thinks Mcgwire in Spiderman was “built”.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
why start ANOTHER fucking argument thread?
it seems to be the same 5-10 people can’t you all send each other these circle jerk messages over FB?[/quote]
it’s actually been quite a civil discussion so far til you came storming in. Relax.[/quote]
fair point
i actually edited my post pretty much straightaway dont know why it has not shown up yet
seems to me the intention is purely to argue but if it turns out that is not the case, cool
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
hahaha I was happy because last month all my XL shirts started looking small. I get comments every day, people always think we’ve gained muscle whether you’re losing fat or bulking up. Nice progress btw
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
Some people like the look, which is fine. But most of the people they point to with this look are power lifters and strongmen. So that look is a byproduct of their sport-specific training and how they eat. It isn’t necessarily that they are striving to look a certain way. Anyway, I think it’s good that we have a separate forum now because the majority of people who train for bodybuilding purposes would agree with you guys. [/quote]
This…
Im a Powerlifter and I understand Im fat too especially when it comes to the BB community. If I am going for a have your cake and eat it too approach (figuratively and literally lol) The type of training I am doing lends itself to having this type of physique if you will. Id like to think of my physique of Full House esque (relatively speaking of course). While strength is my number one goal, Id be lying if I said I dont care if I look like I lift weights, I want to look like I lift weights and after the big three and movements to help those lifts I do enjoy doing movements more associated with BBers.
BTW while I dont even know what my BF percentage is, Id venture to guess its in the 20s, I do care about the scale as I want to stay in the 242 weight class.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You are in good shape, but I mean BIG people noticing you lift, not the average person today who still thinks Mcgwire in Spiderman was “built”.[/quote]
One of my fondest memories is walking down Broadway in the village when I was in grad school, and having some seriously huge monster of a BBer give me the “'Sup-Bro?” head nod. I felt like I had been acknowledged as a member of the fraternity and not some wannabe.
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
I think the problem is people have different definitions of what “Full House” is. To me it is a look not a state of being. Not all power lifters are “full house” and neither are all off season bodybuilders. Some carry to much fat. Thing is powerlifters do not care as long as move heavy shit and body builders can let themselves go a bit more than most since there drug use will allow them to drop fat quicker. Also, like I stated in the other thread not everyone will look the same “Full house”. Bodybuilders on average are shorter so carrying extra fat takes away the taper and makes them look short and blocky/stocky.
To me Brandon Lilly has an awesome “Full House” look. [/quote]
I agree that is an imposing look. It does not look bad, especially in clothes. My question: Do you think Brandon Lilly would look better or worse if he maintained his muscle mass and lost 15 lbs of fat? [/quote]
If you follow his Facebook page at all, or the JTS page, Lilly plans on losing more bodyfat [/quote]
Any reasons given? I don’t really follow the sport, but I know that Matt Kroc transformed himself quite well a few years back.
S[/quote]
It may be partly what Detz said but, also if you read some of the interviews it seems that being that size along with their training is just brutal. There is a sample diet of what Lilly ate to keep his weight and talks about how never wakes up without pain, wakes up constantly, and has all kinds of lifting related injuries.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
It may be partly what Detz said but, also if you read some of the interviews it seems that being that size along with their training is just brutal. There is a sample diet of what Lilly ate to keep his weight and talks about how never wakes up without pain, wakes up constantly, and has all kinds of lifting related injuries.
[/quote]
Makes a lot of sense. I’m a (relatively) small guy, and when I forced my weight up around 220, not only didn’t it really give me any added strength or size (same strength as when I weighed 190, and the added size came later when I kept myself lighter), but my knees started hurting a hell of a lot.
Actually, I had an older friend who has since passed. He was a national level NPC competitor. Weighed about 270-280 year round, and I can only assume that thanks to all the PEDs and god knows what coursing through his system, was ripped to holy hell every day of the year. The guy always looked tired and worn out, never seemed to enjoy eating, and would be out of breath with the most mundane everyday activities. I don’t know about injuries (he never admitted any to me), but the work that went into keeping himself looking the way he did surely didn’t appear to be fun in the least.
S
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
yeah I’m the same. I get comments from my sedentary, skinny fat mates, but when a truly big dude walks in I hang my head.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
You are in good shape, but I mean BIG people noticing you lift, not the average person today who still thinks Mcgwire in Spiderman was “built”.[/quote]
LOL obviously just having veins in your forearms will get regular people comments.
But I’ve gotten asked at my gym here at home (where a few people who actually compete lift) how I’m doing, have I thought about Physique, I’ve made good progress (I only lift there every 3-4 months so it’s more noticeable), etc.
All I was saying is that you’ll get nods and such if you have your shit dialed in.
And I’ll assume the McGwire comment was a jab at my user name lololol
[quote]browndisaster wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
hahaha I was happy because last month all my XL shirts started looking small. I get comments every day, people always think we’ve gained muscle whether you’re losing fat or bulking up. Nice progress btw[/quote]
Thanks man. Sadly my arms are lackluster, so I fill out larger shirts in the shoulders, upper back, etc, but don’t get that snug fit around the arms yet. Feelsbadman.jpg
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
hey I can look ok in a well fitting shirt!
[/quote]
Lol I was about to say. I’m quite small (avi is recent) and I get comments about lifting and stuff a lot, unless I’m wearing a shirt XXL shirt or something (though I rarely do, because I like to buy clothes that fit). [/quote]
yeah I’m the same. I get comments from my sedentary, skinny fat mates, but when a truly big dude walks in I hang my head.[/quote]
I get nods from bigger guys at my uni who I see in the gym often, and like I said above, guys at my gym at home. But I rarely even see big guys in public anyways lol
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
But I rarely even see big guys in public anyways lol[/quote]
I get the feeling a lot of posters are like this…which is why so many are stuck on “limits”. I grew up around a lot of big guys in the gym…and before the military, that was honestly what I wanted to get into more seriously. When you see guys truly weighing over 260lbs with veins and abs working out next to you, the desire to look normal fades quickly.
I now compare myself to people way bigger.
If I compared myself to normal people, I would have started thinking I was “at my limit” at 200lbs.
So, does adding that much fat really help long term goals?
Personally I feel like I’ve made more muscle adding progress faster since I’ve drop to not fat status. I’ve actually gained a couple of pounds recently while still progressively thinning out my skin.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, does adding that much fat really help long term goals?
[/quote]
? I think you are missing the point. When I was close to 300, it didn’t have shit to do with me thinking the extra body fat was helping me gain more muscle. It had everything to do with me knowing that I would diet it off later and knowing I was still growing muscle…so I kept that up.
Why waste months dieting when my body is ready to grow?
Your body will NOT always be primed for growth. It goes through stages and cycles of growth and the guy who is standing there feeding his body when his body is ready to grow is the one who will make the most progress.
Period.
If that leads some guys to carrying more fat than desirable for a while, so be it. That is NOT their end goal and I am sure their thinking, IF THEY ARE TRULY SERIOUS, is along the same lines as what I wrote here now.
In between months 1 and 12 if I am seeing more strength in the gym and my arms are growing, and I choose not to diet down because of it, that may lead me to carrying more body fat than “ideal” that can be dieted off later.
AT NO POINT IN TIME WAS THE THOUGHT THAT CARRYING MORE FAT CAUSES MORE GROWTH.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
So, does adding that much fat really help long term goals?
[/quote]
? I think you are missing the point. When I was close to 300, it didn’t have shit to do with me thinking the extra body fat was helping me gain more muscle. It had everything to do with me knowing that I would diet it off later and knowing I was still growing muscle…so I kept that up.
Why waste months dieting when my body is ready to grow?
Your body will NOT always be primed for growth. It goes through stages and cycles of growth and the guy who is standing there feeding his body when his body is ready to grow is the one who will make the most progress.
Period.
If that leads some guys to carrying more fat than desirable for a while, so be it. That is NOT their end goal and I am sure their thinking, IF THEY ARE TRULY SERIOUS, is along the same lines as what I wrote here now.
In between months 1 and 12 if I am seeing more strength in the gym and my arms are growing, and I choose not to diet down because of it, that may lead me to carrying more body fat than “ideal” that can be dieted off later.
AT NO POINT IN TIME WAS THE THOUGHT THAT CARRYING MORE FAT CAUSES MORE GROWTH.[/quote]
I’m not saying you think that. I’m saying the opposite may be true.
When you are lean (and maybe dieted down), you increase your insulin sensitivity and your metabolism. Slow metabolism + improved insulin sensitivity logically makes a person primed for gains.
Grant it, I’m also someone who hates having to force feed myself to gain weight, but isn’t a slow metabolism a good thing for adding mass?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’m not saying you think that. I’m saying the opposite may be true.
When you are lean (and maybe dieted down), you increase your insulin sensitivity and your metabolism. Slow metabolism + improved insulin sensitivity logically makes a person primed for gains.
Grant it, I’m also someone who hates having to force feed myself to gain weight, but isn’t a slow metabolism a good thing for adding mass?
[/quote]
No a slow metabolism usually means more fat gain. Most bodybuilders would desire a fast metabolism so they could eat what they wanted.
As far as your comments about insulin sensitivity, one thing I hate lately is guys acting like they have this figured out…when I for one know they are doing this without blood tests but some generalized idea of these concepts.
Unless you were truly getting fat to the point of being OBESE and decreasing mobility, I would back off of spreading the false idea that simply being leaner somehow enhances insulin sensitivity. I have seen no evidence that someone is better in this area just because they are now “12%” instead of “15%”.
There are way more variables at play than this…the most important including your food choices.