Frustrated on Cut?

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
How long did you carry the extra weight (from the time you reached 225+)…12 months, 18 months, 24 months?

If you added 20+% to your bodyweight, how much did your ‘money’ lifts (squat, pull, press, row) incresae? How much have they decreased during your cut?

How many grams of the protein are from solid food? Red Meat? …from suppliments?

Fat grams per day?

I realize everyone is different, but 2,200 calories would be the absolute ‘basement’ for a 200lb male in my opinion (I diet on 3,200 and I’m 48yrs old, 5’10" @ 205lb). I am also amazed at what low-carb means today…to me low-carb is 150-200 grams a day. Anytime I’ve tried to go lower my training goes to shit!
[/quote]

I went from 187 to 231 from sep 1 to mar 1. I was 225+ from mid january on. My bench went from 2801 to 3401, squat about 3151 to 4001, deadlift of 410 to 470, row 245 to 320. As for what I’ve lost off them…I’m not sure since I’ve been doing higher reps.

I would say if someone put a gun to my head I could get 3101 on benching,3801 on squats, I think I could actually 500 now so that’s gone up, and row around 300.

My protein is around 270 right now, 25 of which is from powder, for fat I believe I’m around 80g per day, mostly from walnuts, fish oil, and other healthy sources
[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong…
The total bulk was for six months: 9/1/10 to 3/1/11
You spent about six weeks of that time at 225 or more: mid 1/1/11 to 3/1/11.

I believe the time frame is way to short. It isn’t realistic to expect an adaption in that short a period. Once you reach a weight that is about 20% over your lean weight (187 in your case), you need to maintain and train at that weight for a minimum of a year; 18 to 24 months is even better. I would have suggested you maintain the 220-230lbs until next March. I realize this isn’t what most people want to hear, but I beleive it is the case for the majority of lifters. I would say that in any ten year period…you can lean-out three, maybe four times max, if growing is the goal! Good job on pushing your lifts up!

22

I don’t think I’ve ever even seen 2200 cals on a precontest diet!

IMO you’ve tanked your metabolism. Back off a bit, and then reassess your approach. I think you’ve pushed too hard, too fast, and for too long.

S

23

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
How long did you carry the extra weight (from the time you reached 225+)…12 months, 18 months, 24 months?

If you added 20+% to your bodyweight, how much did your ‘money’ lifts (squat, pull, press, row) incresae? How much have they decreased during your cut?

How many grams of the protein are from solid food? Red Meat? …from suppliments?

Fat grams per day?

I realize everyone is different, but 2,200 calories would be the absolute ‘basement’ for a 200lb male in my opinion (I diet on 3,200 and I’m 48yrs old, 5’10" @ 205lb). I am also amazed at what low-carb means today…to me low-carb is 150-200 grams a day. Anytime I’ve tried to go lower my training goes to shit!
[/quote]

I went from 187 to 231 from sep 1 to mar 1. I was 225+ from mid january on. My bench went from 2801 to 3401, squat about 3151 to 4001, deadlift of 410 to 470, row 245 to 320. As for what I’ve lost off them…I’m not sure since I’ve been doing higher reps.

I would say if someone put a gun to my head I could get 3101 on benching,3801 on squats, I think I could actually 500 now so that’s gone up, and row around 300.

My protein is around 270 right now, 25 of which is from powder, for fat I believe I’m around 80g per day, mostly from walnuts, fish oil, and other healthy sources
[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong…
The total bulk was for six months: 9/1/10 to 3/1/11
You spent about six weeks of that time at 225 or more: mid 1/1/11 to 3/1/11.

I believe the time frame is way to short. It isn’t realistic to expect an adaption in that short a period. Once you reach a weight that is about 20% over your lean weight (187 in your case), you need to maintain and train at that weight for a minimum of a year; 18 to 24 months is even better. I would have suggested you maintain the 220-230lbs until next March. I realize this isn’t what most people want to hear, but I beleive it is the case for the majority of lifters. I would say that in any ten year period…you can lean-out three, maybe four times max, if growing is the goal! Good job on pushing your lifts up! [/quote]

Hmmm…the thing is though all my lifts plateaued for the last 3 weeks really. But I hear what you’re saying

24

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t think I’ve ever even seen 2200 cals on a precontest diet!

IMO you’ve tanked your metabolism. Back off a bit, and then reassess your approach. I think you’ve pushed too hard, too fast, and for too long.

S[/quote]

Whoah…what are you at pre contest usually?

25

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Alright here’s a pic from late april of a back double bi

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here’s one from today

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/374/backdoublebiresized.jpg non resized

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another today

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1344/backdoublebi2resized.jpg without resizing

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april 23 again

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today

30

I have ass shots, but I’ll save those for my RMP thread.

31

You’re definitely getting leaner. Cals have probably dropped too low, and some other cardio options might be in order. Reset your metabolism, and keep on trucking, IMO.

32

Yeah, good work so far. Take a couple weeks, bring in maintenance calories, get back to it strong.

33

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
You’re definitely getting leaner. Cals have probably dropped too low, and some other cardio options might be in order. Reset your metabolism, and keep on trucking, IMO.[/quote]

This is it.

Your cals/cardio most likely has gotten to a point of diminishing returns…if you try and decrease cals or increase cardio, it would probably result in too much muscle loss/not enough fat loss to justify it. I would try to reduce cardio and increase cals or maybe try adding in a couple high days each week to stoke your metabolsm.

34

Don’t take this the wrong way because you’ve obviously put in a bunch of hard work, but I’m not sure you had as much muscle mass as you thought you did. Looking at your pictures it doesn’t look like you’ve lost much in the way of lean tissue, so I’d say your efforts so far have been good. You should do a strength test to see if you are near where you were at when you started. (try doing similar sets, reps, weights, exercises to what you did prior to cutting) If you’ve lost a lot of strength then stop and regain that before trying to cut more.

I feel your pain, I’m on a long cut myself and sometimes it’s hard to stay motivated as you get smaller.

35

you guys saying I may have overestimated may have a point. Especially if the calipers left a couple % off what I actually had in bf at the end there. I looked at those two back double bi shots and I actually think I have MORE mid back musculature now than before. Also, tested my one rep max on Incline yesterday, hit 265, was 275 when I was 231 lbs., and honestly I’ve been doing 8-10 rep sets on incline lately, I think if I spent a couple weeks doing low reps I could hit 275 again easily. My deadlift has gone up, my 1RM max on bench is probably 20 lbs. lower, and my rowing weights haven’t really changed.

36

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
How long did you carry the extra weight (from the time you reached 225+)…12 months, 18 months, 24 months?

If you added 20+% to your bodyweight, how much did your ‘money’ lifts (squat, pull, press, row) incresae? How much have they decreased during your cut?

How many grams of the protein are from solid food? Red Meat? …from suppliments?

Fat grams per day?

I realize everyone is different, but 2,200 calories would be the absolute ‘basement’ for a 200lb male in my opinion (I diet on 3,200 and I’m 48yrs old, 5’10" @ 205lb). I am also amazed at what low-carb means today…to me low-carb is 150-200 grams a day. Anytime I’ve tried to go lower my training goes to shit!
[/quote]

I went from 187 to 231 from sep 1 to mar 1. I was 225+ from mid january on. My bench went from 2801 to 3401, squat about 3151 to 4001, deadlift of 410 to 470, row 245 to 320. As for what I’ve lost off them…I’m not sure since I’ve been doing higher reps.

I would say if someone put a gun to my head I could get 3101 on benching,3801 on squats, I think I could actually 500 now so that’s gone up, and row around 300.

My protein is around 270 right now, 25 of which is from powder, for fat I believe I’m around 80g per day, mostly from walnuts, fish oil, and other healthy sources
[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong…
The total bulk was for six months: 9/1/10 to 3/1/11
You spent about six weeks of that time at 225 or more: mid 1/1/11 to 3/1/11.

I believe the time frame is way to short. It isn’t realistic to expect an adaption in that short a period. Once you reach a weight that is about 20% over your lean weight (187 in your case), you need to maintain and train at that weight for a minimum of a year; 18 to 24 months is even better. I would have suggested you maintain the 220-230lbs until next March. I realize this isn’t what most people want to hear, but I beleive it is the case for the majority of lifters. I would say that in any ten year period…you can lean-out three, maybe four times max, if growing is the goal! Good job on pushing your lifts up! [/quote]

Hmmm…the thing is though all my lifts plateaued for the last 3 weeks really. But I hear what you’re saying [/quote]

Your lifts stalling have absolutly nothing to do with my response!
Your ‘frustration’ as you described it is that after a bulk and cut you are going to be exaclty where you started…at about 185 and 10%. Yes the advice to add back some calories and reduce the workload may restart your weight loss, but you are going to wind up at 185 either way. The fact that you may have over-estimated the muscle gained or BF% at any given point are secondary to the fact that you did not carry the extra body-weight for a long enough period to create an adaption. My mentioning the progress you made on your lifts was an attempt to blunt the fact that this Sept. 1st you will be where you were last Sept. 1st. The ‘silver lining’ so to speak.

37

This is why I’ve come to think of weight as a very small factor. If you’re able to make progress and stay at a BF that you feel comfortable with, not only does that save you going through major cuts but you just feel better day to day. Huge bulks like this IMO should only be undertaken if you’re having extreme difficulties putting weight on the bar or if you’re very lean to begin with.

38

Good work, so far.

In addition to what the guys have already said: you seem to be bottom-heavy, you’re carrying disproportionally more muscle in your lower body. Judging from your upper body alone, I’d have you at least 15 lbs lighter, if not even 20 lbs.

And get rid of that lava lamp, already.

39

[quote]nik133 wrote:
This is why I’ve come to think of weight as a very small factor. If you’re able to make progress and stay at a BF that you feel comfortable with, not only does that save you going through major cuts but you just feel better day to day. Huge bulks like this IMO should only be undertaken if you’re having extreme difficulties putting weight on the bar or if you’re very lean to begin with.[/quote]

20% over lean weight wouldn’t be considered a huge bulk.
I agree that once a lifter finds a body-weight where they can progress they should maintain that weight for an extended period…as I have posted. The problem is that few lifters will be displaying any abs at this body-weight, and most find that fact difficult to deal with. It’s about having a realistic expectation of what will be required to force the body to grow.

40

adam sandler ??
bro u have decent amount of muscle but u have such thick big boned built