A woman who can actually turn a wrench… HOT. Well, they have to be at least okay looking haha, but that is something that can add a few points to a lady. I know this one girl that is into auto cross, and does a bunch of DIY mechanic work. I’d say she is attractive in general, but that makes her super attractive to me. It is super easy to talk with her, because she likes cars, sports, tools…
I’d say for women struggling to find a man, get into something manly as a hobby. You likely won’t have any boring dates with masculine men (if that is what you want). Also, lots of opportunities to meet men in a non-awkward way.
Of course they’re self-centered… they’re humans. Why would they act on behalf of someone else’s best interest but not their own?
Have you considered that women don’t actually want you to give up all your interests, despite acting like they do?
Girl: I want you to stop fishing
You: No.
Girl: I’ll leave if you don’t stop fishing.
You: Then I’ll find someone else who doesn’t mind me going fishing.
Girl: You’d choose fishing over me?
You: No, I’d choose a woman who accepts me as I am over one who won’t.
There you go, Boundary Setting 101.
If she can’t respect your boundaries, she wasn’t the one for you anyways.
I used to think this way too, but I’ve come to realize that emphasizing the polarity between the masculine and feminine in relationships has made things far more enjoyable (and sexy).
Outside of the pinup girl holding a welding torch in Daisy Dukes, I find almost any masculine trait to be a turn off when seen in a woman.
Yes. She’s never once tried to make me give up things I care about or tried to cut people out my life. And I can say the same for most of my friends’ wives/girlfriends.
Then you’re lucky. My wife likes that I have close friends, the gym, and my books. But “girlfriends” I’ve had did try to get me away from my interests in the past. Of course there is some flattery in that but over time it’s not good.
In some cases girlfriends attempt to turn men into their pets or employees, so to speak.
By your own account, you weren’t in a good place when you were younger, and didn’t always pursue healthy things. (I sincerely don’t mean that in a rude way at all, as I can say the same about myself.) So it makes sense you didn’t find yourself pairing with healthy, mature women. This is to be expected.
So is it that most men find that most women try to take things they care about away from them, or is it just that unhealthy people do bad things to each other? My girlfriend doesn’t do this. Your wife doesn’t. I bet most genuinely healthy, stable men who are in genuinely healthy, stable relationships would say the same about their women.
More like poor boundaries, including those with two former “friends” and even as a more psychologically healthy adult, those with two abusive bosses who I eventually “told where it’s at”.
About eight years ago, after annoying the hell out of me, I told one of those bosses, after asking me, “How are you?,” “Actually my blood is boiling because of you. Here’s the deal: either I quit on you, or you fire me. Whatever comes first." She never bothered me again. So, that’s one example of boundary setting.
In a relationship a boundary would be for one partner not to intrude upon personal interests and friendships of another.
I suspect the disrespect of boundaries in the past could be due to me being a sensitive, introspective person who can actually feel guilt. These traits can be exploited to gaslight another because the other person actually is open to criticism and actually might think, even inappropriately think about oneself, “gee, maybe I am being selfish,” “hmm, maybe I am exaggerating,” “I’m not perfect, so like…,” and so on and so on.
I’ve even had a boundary for online conduct. Hence I do not do online e-beefs or insult matches. Once someone starts in with name calling, gaslighting, or ad hominems, or wants to “teach me a lesson,” I’m done. I am totally open to opposing views though.
With that said, I don’t think it’s so uncommon for girlfriends to hog men’s time, as has been the case even for healthy men I know. I don’t know just how common it is, and I was being facetious in my previous comment, not literal.
Sorry mods, I really felt that I needed to quote this entire thing.
I have no desire to cancel you, Andrewgen. What I would like to point out is that a similarly ugly list written by a woman would deeply offend you - and for good reason. It would offend me, too, and I do occasionally hear women talk in that way about men. Generally speaking, though, these are the women @jshaving references down thread, who consistently choose dumpster fire men.
accused men of cheating
You must be aware that men accuse women of cheating as well?
threatened to take men’s child(ren) and half their income
Let’s check in with the real world:
Re: take the money
In 29% of marriages today, both spouses earn about the same amount of money. Just over half (55%) of marriages today have a husband who is the primary or sole breadwinner and 16% have a breadwinner wife.
So 45% of wives either earn similarly or out earn. It’s the 22% of marriages where the husband is the sole breadwinner where the “take half your income” occurs, and this is the setup you find most appealing - to the point that you would like it to be the assumed setup in our society. That’s confusing to me.
Re: take the kids
showed relatively small but significant increases in shared custody in the late 1980s and early 1990s. These changes have accelerated markedly in the intervening years: between 1988 and 2008, the proportion of mothers granted sole physical custody fell substantially, the proportion of parents sharing custody increased dramatically, and father-sole custody remained relatively stable. … Despite the considerable changes in marriage and divorce patterns over this period, we do not find strong evidence that the changes in custody are related to changes in the characteristics of families experiencing a divorce; rather, changes in custody may be the result of changes in social norms and the process by which custody is determined.
This article was written in 2014, so ten years ago now. I think we all know that the move toward joint custody continues. At this point, barring someone who simply doesn’t want the kids, it is the default in most places.
expected men to listen to all it’s stupid problems, but get mad when they try to solve them
Will you be pleased to see the evidence I’ve posted that contradicts (“solves,” really) your foundational assumptions?
forced men into sexless monogamy
This happens on both sides. I was in a largely sexless marriage. I didn’t leave over that, but I am very glad not to be in that position any longer. I have a human sexuality textbook that says that men are more often the ones to shut sex down after experiencing ED, which surprised me when I read it, but the book is at work, and I can’t find that data online.
asked men to validate it’s dumb windsock feelings
You once worried that you were going to get “screamed at again” after I’d posted a very polite correction of misinformation you’d posted. Pot/kettle, and all that.
taken control of the entire educational institution
In the real world, the top three ed officials are men. But we do have a woman coming in at number four.
Biographies of Senior Officials—U.S. Department of Education
been offended on behalf of someone else
(feel free to add more in here)
I’m honestly offended on behalf of your wife, because this is such a terrible list. So I’ll cop to this one without argument.
Lastly, the poster you’re replying to did not compare women to the gym. He suggested looking for men there because gym-going men have good qualities.
Does this post = cancelling? I’m genuinely curious. Also, I very often agree with things you’ve said. I think a couple of posts down, in fact. Okay, here, regarding boundaries.
Again, no desire to cancel, but for myself I enjoy information that allows me to better understand my own positions, whether contradictory or not. I hope that you will feel that way, too. I’d like to think this post would be reassuring (“maybe things are not as grim as I thought!”) but that doesn’t often seem to be the case.
Both of these things were true of me when I chose a husband at age 23. He is educated, hard working, and strong, but he was also many less-positive things, and I had so much uncertainty and insecurity about myself that I couldn’t push back very well in early years. When I grew and changed he resented my efforts to grow the relationship, e.g. reading on these boards about low testosterone, which he did have, but he didn’t want to bother with the TRT after a couple of weeks because it was a hassle. Oh, okay. You’ll just remain ill-tempered and sexless. Great.
I think that often the problem is that sensitive people who internalize problems (“maybe I’m the problem”) pair with people who externalize their problems (“you’re the problem”) and so self-doubt is confronted with bullying, and crumbles into confusion and ineffectual hurt.
Like you, @BrickHead my closest friendships had very similar dynamics.
@Andrewgen_Receptors There are a lot of reasons women might want to shut down sex that have nothing to do with misandry, promiscuity or misguided social norms.
sometimes shite just doesn’t feel good. Homones, for example, affect natural lubrication and makes things more painful. Devotion to a partner sometimes isn’t enough of an incentive.
You like to talk about biology. and the truth is that it is harder for women to derive pleasure from the most common forms of sexual activity (having someone else’s object stuck in them) than men
I wish I could remember what it said about celebrate marriages and who was driving them. It’s possible it was an over-40 thing with men, but I really can’t say with certainty, so I won’t.
“I like you” is not exactly what I said. “Like” is a whole different thing. What I meant to say was something more along the lines of that I don’t think you are terrible, you seem like a nice guy who loves his family and likes to think about the world so I’m being courteous and respectful, but the things you wrote deserve to be disputed. My primary goal is not to change your mind, but to bring balance and accuracy for the men potentially reading, particularly the younger ones, and for the couple of women upthread who already feel rejected and lonely. If you’re open-minded and secure enough not to feel attacked by me and are able to consider the validity of what I wrote, all the better. But by no means necessary for me.
I have to agree with this, assuming healthy sexuality in both partners.
Oh, Anna, it’s not like that at all for a lot of or hopefully most women. It feels physically good and emotionally connected. Just intimate and lovely or wild and exciting. I’m very sorry it isn’t that way for you.
I think “someone else’s object” is not really how it seems. In my relationship, I kind of like to think of that particular object as “ours.”
