Front Squat Benchmark

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Not to sound like a pussy, but doesnt 225lb+ kill your shoulders? I get mad bruises the next few days from it, hurts like hell during too.

How about knee tracking, back position, etc.? I really like how Rippetoe breaks down the back squat in his book, and how Captain Kirk explained the back squat in 10 steps. I haven’t found similar information on front squat, I could “just do it” Nike style, but with me knees as they are I’m trying to ensure I am using proper form for longevity and health as well.[/quote]

I use one of those little foam wraps, I have no meat on my clavicles YET, so it causes bruising and scratches without.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Not to sound like a pussy, but doesnt 225lb+ kill your shoulders? I get mad bruises the next few days from it, hurts like hell during too.
[/quote]

You are doing it wrong. Bar should be behind front delts, not on them. People with shitty posture will have a harder time getting into the right position (+ keeping upright position). If your wrist mobility is holding you back, then you can do the crossed arm style or the straps approach.

Otherwise the execution is simple - just sit straight down between legs.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Not to sound like a pussy, but doesnt 225lb+ kill your shoulders? I get mad bruises the next few days from it, hurts like hell during too.

How about knee tracking, back position, etc.? I really like how Rippetoe breaks down the back squat in his book, and how Captain Kirk explained the back squat in 10 steps. I haven’t found similar information on front squat, I could “just do it” Nike style, but with me knees as they are I’m trying to ensure I am using proper form for longevity and health as well.[/quote]

It’s kind of a self regulating exercise from a movement path at least.

I use the two finger, elbows straight and up method. Really press your elbows up the entire time. It may be kind of difficult due to thoracic and/or wrist mobility. As far as the track, it’s not a big difference between the regular squat. You can track your knees over your toes a little bit, but it’s hard to do b/c you’ll fall forward eventually. The queue my trainer also gives me is “elbows up, proud chest, long neck, press from mid to heel of foot” Oh, and I have a faulty left knee, but this seems to be fine.

I lay the bar across my deltoids/above the clavical. The bar is basically touching my neck.

To help with thoracic mobility, whenever I foam roll my back, I make sure to really dig into my mid-upper back and really try to stretch the thoracic area. Keep chin tucked, hips down, and try to roll your upper back downwards. It kind of hurts if you do it right, but after a few months, you’ll see a big difference. I remember about 1 or 2 months into doing this, I heard the loudest pop in my spine ever, and ever since then, my thoracic mobility has been much improved.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
I use the two finger, elbows straight and up method. Really press your elbows up the entire time. It may be kind of difficult due to thoracic and/or wrist mobility. As far as the track, it’s not a big difference between the regular squat. You can track your knees over your toes a little bit, but it’s hard to do b/c you’ll fall forward eventually. The queue my trainer also gives me is “elbows up, proud chest, long neck, press from mid to heel of foot” Oh, and I have a faulty left knee, but this seems to be fine.

I lay the bar across my deltoids/above the clavical. The bar is basically touching my neck.

To help with thoracic mobility, whenever I foam roll my back, I make sure to really dig into my mid-upper back and really try to stretch the thoracic area. Keep chin tucked, hips down, and try to roll your upper back downwards. It kind of hurts if you do it right, but after a few months, you’ll see a big difference. I remember about 1 or 2 months into doing this, I heard the loudest pop in my spine ever, and ever since then, my thoracic mobility has been much improved.

[/quote]

Thanks again for the feedback in this thread, some great stuff.

No problem! I’m glad I can finally actually add some real life example thoughts lol.

Where in Florida are you Waittz? I’m in Tampa myself.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
No problem! I’m glad I can finally actually add some real life example thoughts lol.

Where in Florida are you Waittz? I’m in Tampa myself.[/quote]

No shit? Im in the greater orlando area. Really not too far off.

Guy Greavette went by the 89% of your back squat. Keep in mind those ratios are geared towards weightlifters. I could see that number being a little lower with other training populations.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
I use the two finger, elbows straight and up method. Really press your elbows up the entire time. It may be kind of difficult due to thoracic and/or wrist mobility. As far as the track, it’s not a big difference between the regular squat. You can track your knees over your toes a little bit, but it’s hard to do b/c you’ll fall forward eventually. The queue my trainer also gives me is “elbows up, proud chest, long neck, press from mid to heel of foot” Oh, and I have a faulty left knee, but this seems to be fine.

I lay the bar across my deltoids/above the clavical. The bar is basically touching my neck.

To help with thoracic mobility, whenever I foam roll my back, I make sure to really dig into my mid-upper back and really try to stretch the thoracic area. Keep chin tucked, hips down, and try to roll your upper back downwards. It kind of hurts if you do it right, but after a few months, you’ll see a big difference. I remember about 1 or 2 months into doing this, I heard the loudest pop in my spine ever, and ever since then, my thoracic mobility has been much improved.

[/quote]

This is the kind of thing I was looking or, thank you.

And yes, it doesn’t lay on your actual deltoid, because the bar would roll off or be too far off your center to balance. I still consider where it rests on my “shoulder” because its not on my throat or actually up on the clavicle bone itself. And for me, in that location it does bruise, as there isn’t much muscle there. Will just take time I suppose to adjust. Thanks.

Dan Green says there’s a 200 lb difference, so his front squat is 75% of his back squat.

Cross multiply
Divide

I’d say 2x BW is an extraordinary front squat. Anything over 2.5x to me is otherworldly.

Working my front squat back up. Haven’t done it in a year because I normally used a strap grip but lost the straps. Stupid cross grip when pouring sweat all over sucks. Gym has been 90 the last 3 leg and back days. Literally soaked all the way through my shorts and shirt. Disgusting. Anyways. I do them after lots of ext and leg curls and some good girl bad girl and sme days leg press as well. Been doing front squat and Immediately do back squats. Nasty superset. 10 reps 10 reps. 225 10-10. 245 and the bar was sliding to much got 3 sets of 6/10 my legs had way more but to unstable with the swear and grip. Fun stuff. Good thread W

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
I think a 1.5xbw front squat is pretty good for most people, 2xbw or better is impressive, 2.5xbw or higher is outstanding. Obviously shorter/lighter dudes will have an easier time achieving those than taller/heavier people, those are just ballpark figures. [/quote]

so, I was going to post here and then hungry read my mind and posted my exact thought on numbers. I think in general a good ratio is a front squat anywhere between 70-80% of your back squat ( done narrow stance though, no real numbers for wide stance in my experience) is a good range. Above probly isn’t bad, it just means you probably need more ham/p chain work and your upper back is plenty strong already.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
I think a 1.5xbw front squat is pretty good for most people, 2xbw or better is impressive, 2.5xbw or higher is outstanding. Obviously shorter/lighter dudes will have an easier time achieving those than taller/heavier people, those are just ballpark figures. [/quote]

If I ever achieve a 2.5X BW front squat. I will buy everyone here a case of beer of their choice.[/quote]

If you do that you will have beaten weightlifting. Game over.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Working my front squat back up. Haven’t done it in a year because I normally used a strap grip but lost the straps. Stupid cross grip when pouring sweat all over sucks. Gym has been 90 the last 3 leg and back days. Literally soaked all the way through my shorts and shirt. Disgusting. Anyways. I do them after lots of ext and leg curls and some good girl bad girl and sme days leg press as well. Been doing front squat and Immediately do back squats. Nasty superset. 10 reps 10 reps. 225 10-10. 245 and the bar was sliding to much got 3 sets of 6/10 my legs had way more but to unstable with the swear and grip. Fun stuff. Good thread W[/quote]

I feel you on the heat. I workout outside in my carport after work. Typically 90-100 degrees in the summer :). You get used to it. Still not as bad as doing intervals outside in Iraq.

Why do you do your front squats after all the other work?

FWIW, for the last few months, I’ve been working on bringing my front squat up again. Once I hit a 475 front squat with a belt, using a wide stance, about 1" below parallel. Now, I’ve been using a slightly wider than shoulder width stance, no belt, just some knee sleeves for knee health.

Some recent PRs doing it like that are 405x2, and 365x5, weighing 200 lbs, +/- depending on the day. I’m about to start front squatting 3x a week, started that planned program today, with a plan to hit 450+ beltless before this deployment is over. Using one light day, one medium day, and one heavy day for that. For reference, my best beltless back squat so far is 475x4.

As far as shoulder bruising goes…my best answer is honestly to just stop worrying about it. Whenever I’ve taken a break from front squatting and start it up again, I get the bruises and scrapes, but after a couple months, the skin gets thicker and tougher, and you’ll barely even notice it anymore. Just like back squatting.

Set-up is EVERYTHING. Everything. I use a mixed grip, have dabbled with oly grip and strap grip, didn’t like them that much. Walk right up to the bar, so your neck is barely touching it. Put your arms straight out in front of you, move closer in to the bar, so your neck is pressed against the bar pretty good. While keeping your shoulders on this position relative to the bar, “pull” your neck back and up a little bit, to avoid choking yourself out during the lift. Take a breath, and lift off.

Looks like there are some decent answers here…but I’ll add to the mix:

At a more elite level the data works out closer to 80% of back squat. For an Intermediate lifter its closer to 85%.

Going by bodyweight 1.6x is good. Getting to 2x and over is elite, over 95 percentile basically.

Data I have is old, perhaps. But it shows about 92% front to back for beginners and then tapers off to 80% at the advanced to elite range.

For what its worth.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
Working my front squat back up. Haven’t done it in a year because I normally used a strap grip but lost the straps. Stupid cross grip when pouring sweat all over sucks. Gym has been 90 the last 3 leg and back days. Literally soaked all the way through my shorts and shirt. Disgusting. Anyways. I do them after lots of ext and leg curls and some good girl bad girl and sme days leg press as well. Been doing front squat and Immediately do back squats. Nasty superset. 10 reps 10 reps. 225 10-10. 245 and the bar was sliding to much got 3 sets of 6/10 my legs had way more but to unstable with the swear and grip. Fun stuff. Good thread W[/quote]

I feel you on the heat. I workout outside in my carport after work. Typically 90-100 degrees in the summer :). You get used to it. Still not as bad as doing intervals outside in Iraq.

Why do you do your front squats after all the other work? [/quote]

Yeah I am used to the heat its just very uncomfortable to have sweat running down your legs and your shirt and shorts soaked all they through not having a dry spot lol

I always do squats towards the end now days. Feels better working squats with a fully pumped hams and quads and glutes/adductors if I did the good girl and girl machine before as well. The reason I started doing it was my low back was shot and after squatting I couldn’t do anything so I wanted to get as much work done before as I could. Also I wanted to use less weight again for my back. Now my squat is higher than it was before so weight isn’t an issue and now it just feels better.

I front squat only atg. Since I see it as an assistance exercise, I use the most ROM I can. I usually also stay in the hole for the last rep for 3-5 seconds, because it is awesome standing back up with something heavy.

[quote]hungry4more wrote:
FWIW, for the last few months, I’ve been working on bringing my front squat up again. Once I hit a 475 front squat with a belt, using a wide stance, about 1" below parallel. Now, I’ve been using a slightly wider than shoulder width stance, no belt, just some knee sleeves for knee health.

Some recent PRs doing it like that are 405x2, and 365x5, weighing 200 lbs, +/- depending on the day. I’m about to start front squatting 3x a week, started that planned program today, with a plan to hit 450+ beltless before this deployment is over. Using one light day, one medium day, and one heavy day for that. For reference, my best beltless back squat so far is 475x4.

As far as shoulder bruising goes…my best answer is honestly to just stop worrying about it. Whenever I’ve taken a break from front squatting and start it up again, I get the bruises and scrapes, but after a couple months, the skin gets thicker and tougher, and you’ll barely even notice it anymore. Just like back squatting.

Set-up is EVERYTHING. Everything. I use a mixed grip, have dabbled with oly grip and strap grip, didn’t like them that much. Walk right up to the bar, so your neck is barely touching it. Put your arms straight out in front of you, move closer in to the bar, so your neck is pressed against the bar pretty good. While keeping your shoulders on this position relative to the bar, “pull” your neck back and up a little bit, to avoid choking yourself out during the lift. Take a breath, and lift off. [/quote]

Thanks for the info H4M. It makes sense about the adaptation of the shoulders to the weight. So for your form based on what I’m reading, you keep your arms straight out the whole time and just keeping your arms up and back straight keeps the bar in place, or you’re just noting your que’s/process and the hand grip is unimportant?