Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable
I’d like to see this happen…I happen to respond best to longer rest per bodypart…I’m stronger when I wait longer.
[quote]yogaroots wrote:
I’d like to see this happen…I happen to respond best to longer rest per bodypart…I’m stronger when I wait longer.[/quote]
what about for hypertrophy purposes?
I think Thibaudeau has answered all possible questions about training frequency many times in his articles. And his answer has always been that there are many ways to set up a program (depending on the individual and goals) and no single program (or frequency) can be considered as THE best one.
He has suggested for example the following workouts:
- 3 whole body workouts per week
- 4 workouts with upper/lower split
- 4 workouts with every muscle group once per week.
And I’m sure that these are not the only possible scenarios.
I’m also pretty sure that many other coaches are not that black and white about frequency either. You just have to find out what works best for you…and that will probably mean different strategies in different times.
I definitely respond to frequency of training.
if i train my body once a week i dont grow, even if i pummel myself with upto 20 sets per BODYPART!
If i increase the volume to a minimum of 1.5x a week although 2x a week is the best for me as a mix of volume and freq.
Any higher freq is a full body done multiple times and i do grow on that but it is limited as i have low volume to play with - upto 5-6 sets per bodypart.
I like to do a upper/lower split or a 2 day split with a 3 day split for a freq. of 2x a week over 5 sessions.
I also like to do a 4 day split with a full body recovery day, or a 5 day split with a low vol low intensity recovery 5 day split tacked onto the end of the days workout so:
Mon- Chest and low vol/int. Legs
Tue- Back and low vol/int. Delts
Wed- Legs and low vol/int. Arms
Thu- Delts and low vol/int. Back
Fri- Arms and low vol/int. Chest
This gives me a much better growth response over a simple 5 day split.
JJ
[quote] JJ wrote:
I definitely respond to frequency of training.
if i train my body once a week i dont grow, even if i pummel myself with upto 20 sets per BODYPART!
If i increase the volume to a minimum of 1.5x a week although 2x a week is the best for me as a mix of volume and freq.
Any higher freq is a full body done multiple times and i do grow on that but it is limited as i have low volume to play with - upto 5-6 sets per bodypart.
I like to do a upper/lower split or a 2 day split with a 3 day split for a freq. of 2x a week over 5 sessions.
I also like to do a 4 day split with a full body recovery day, or a 5 day split with a low vol low intensity recovery 5 day split tacked onto the end of the days workout so:
Mon- Chest and low vol/int. Legs
Tue- Back and low vol/int. Delts
Wed- Legs and low vol/int. Arms
Thu- Delts and low vol/int. Back
Fri- Arms and low vol/int. Chest
This gives me a much better growth response over a simple 5 day split.
JJ[/quote]
that looks pretty interesting, so u best respond to about 2x a week? i know for Waterbury’s perfect 10 he suggests upto 5x (maybe more i didnt read it all yet), but thats for a limited time to specialize growth in that area.
I do… a higher freq and the volume suffers, a lower freq. and the added volume doesnt seem to make up for the loss in frequency.
To make up for that i do something like the 3+2 day splits or the 5+5 day split above.
I just need one full session and AT LEAST another 1/2 session to grow optimally.
Right now - having just come off i have gone to a 1/2 and 1/2 body split, training 4x a week for a freq of 2x with a med volume, cycling between two 4-5set x 4-8rep workouts,
and two 3set x 10-15rep workouts…
so Legs, back and tri get one of each, and Chest delts and bi do too.
i have recently split to a:
Back width, back thickness and tri.
Quad, Ham, Calf and forearms.
Chest, Delt and Bicep split, over 4x a week for a little under 2x freq. This suits me at this time in a particularly catabolic state…
JJ
The answer for the “what frequency is best” is, like most other things, “it depends”.
It depends on the training age of the trainee, the volume, the goals, the recovery ability, schedule, injuries, etc.
Just like there is no best volume, there is also no best frequency. Its all relative.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
The answer for the “what frequency is best” is, like most other things, “it depends”.
It depends on the training age of the trainee, the volume, the goals, the recovery ability, schedule, injuries, etc.
Just like there is no best volume, there is also no best frequency. Its all relative.[/quote]
well yea but someone who thinks high frequency is better might say to just do a lower volume when starting off. and someone who thinks higher volume and lower frequency is better might suggest something different. for instance like i said, Waterbury is generally in favor of high frequency.
and i’m only talking about hypertrophy/body composition goals here
[quote]David1991 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
The answer for the “what frequency is best” is, like most other things, “it depends”.
It depends on the training age of the trainee, the volume, the goals, the recovery ability, schedule, injuries, etc.
Just like there is no best volume, there is also no best frequency. Its all relative.
well yea but someone who thinks high frequency is better might say to just do a lower volume when starting off. and someone who thinks higher volume and lower frequency is better might suggest something different. for instance like i said, Waterbury is generally in favor of high frequency.
and i’m only talking about hypertrophy/body composition goals here
[/quote]
Heres the big seceret:
They both work
How many countless bodybuilders have used low frequency, high volume programs with success?
What about DC, which has a relatively higher frequency? Does it not work extremelly well because it is a low volume, high frequency program?
Someone who is in favor of frequent training is never going to tell you to train with an extraordinarily high volume unless they are an idiot. These two things are inversley correlated. You can train LONG or you can train OFTEN, but very very few indiduals will be able to train both ways at once.
I think you missed the point of my post, it depends and they can both work very well given the right circumstances.
JJ, my muscles respond totally different than yours brother but I may just give it another shot at training each muscle several times per week again. I tried the working everything several times per week a few years ago and it did not produce much growth. It seems as if I would concentrate and go all out on one muscle in the beginning and then have nothing left over for the other muscles to be trained that day?
I get really good growth from the following:
Frequency wise, I like to work each bodypart once per week, with my chest worked twice per week. Two days off, usually Wed & Sun.
As for my volume, I stick with decently high volume since I am working only one bodypart per day and my reps range from 10 - 15.
Although, at least once per month I will go really low on reps 1- 5 to shock the muscles.
Also, my schedule/job only allows time for one workout per day in the evenings. I would feel much better about the higher frequency if I could workout at least twice per day.
Does anyone else have any feedback on the one bodypart per week b/c it seems as if everyone trains each b/p several times per week now?
pros/cons
[quote]redbull250 wrote:
JJ, my muscles respond totally different than yours brother but I may just give it another shot at training each muscle several times per week again. I tried the working everything several times per week a few years ago and it did not produce much growth. It seems as if I would concentrate and go all out on one muscle in the beginning and then have nothing left over for the other muscles to be trained that day?
I get really good growth from the following:
Frequency wise, I like to work each bodypart once per week, with my chest worked twice per week. Two days off, usually Wed & Sun.
As for my volume, I stick with decently high volume since I am working only one bodypart per day and my reps range from 10 - 15.
Although, at least once per month I will go really low on reps 1- 5 to shock the muscles.
Also, my schedule/job only allows time for one workout per day in the evenings. I would feel much better about the higher frequency if I could workout at least twice per day.
Does anyone else have any feedback on the one bodypart per week b/c it seems as if everyone trains each b/p several times per week now?
pros/cons[/quote]
A tip. Keep the same volume - or increase it by upto 1-3 sets. Then split that over the week… so if it is a 2 day split, split it in 2 etc…
So an example using my favourite 2 day split protocol:
Back/Chest/Bi:
Back-8 sets total
Chest-7 sets total
Tri-6 sets total
This is done 2x a week - different workouts but total volume for Back is 16 sets, Chest is 14 sets and Triceps is 12 sets - the set volume for each workout is only 21 sets! for this high volume work? BONUS!
Then Legs/Delts/Bi is the same…
i love this split and sometimes go upto 12 sets/10sets/8sets per workout for 30 total sets per workout… this gives
Back/Legs-24 sets per week.
Chest/Delts-20 sets per week
Bi/Tri-16 sets per week.
I grow great off this. For a limited time. it is ONLY 4 workouts a week that is 3 days off! plenty of rest for a massive volume. 120 sets a week! I usually do 5-12 reps on this kind of program.
Joe
[quote]David1991 wrote:
yogaroots wrote:
I’d like to see this happen…I happen to respond best to longer rest per bodypart…I’m stronger when I wait longer.
what about for hypertrophy purposes?[/quote]
For me both happen when I give a full week for a given bodypart to recover. The problem I have is the psychological factor of waiting a full 5-7 days between, but overall the gains are great. This varies from person to person though.
[quote]David1991 wrote:
Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable[/quote]
Well, I have been trying to search something more along the lines of “super-high frequency training”… no luck to my specific definition to it… before I ever thought to find body building info on the web I failed to develop the body I wanted and gave up. What I started to do when I gave up, I started to pile on mass.
What I started doing is what I want to find in my searches. Does anyone else do this?
I started lifting each major body part for a single heavy set shy of failure every couple of hours… in other words, every time I took a break from the computer.
I don’t know why, I just did it but it worked and started giving me mass and strength. Yeah, I read all Thib’s stuff and all about HFT but they all consist of multiple sets.
I read Thibs article and while it was good as always Id like to see the round table. You could ask ten different ppl and get 9 different answers
[quote]David1991 wrote:
Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable[/quote]
Don’t misinterpret me. I do not recommend ONE type of training frequency. With my clients I use all types of frequencies. From the hit it hard and wait strategy to the low-volume/high frequency method. My latest series explains the proper relationship regarding training stress per workout and workout frequency.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
David1991 wrote:
Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable
Don’t misinterpret me. I do not recommend ONE type of training frequency. With my clients I use all types of frequencies. From the hit is hard and wait strategy to the low-volume/high frequency method. My latest series explains the proper relationship regarding training stress per workout and workout frequency.[/quote]
Thanks Coach!! Its always good to see you here with us common folk =)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
David1991 wrote:
Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable
Don’t misinterpret me. I do not recommend ONE type of training frequency. With my clients I use all types of frequencies. From the hit it hard and wait strategy to the low-volume/high frequency method. My latest series explains the proper relationship regarding training stress per workout and workout frequency.[/quote]
this was a somewhat old thread so sorry about that, at the time i had not read as much of your work. I’d still say your “generally” a lower frequency (when compared to people like Waterbury) guy. your general rule was 5-7 days if i remember correctly. but i like that you have different methods and realize that different ones can work.
[quote]ImmortalAttitude wrote:
David1991 wrote:
Does anyone know if T-Nation is planning on or has done a roundtable on training frequency? i’ve seen some like Thibaudeau say hit the muscle hard and wait awhile, while others like Waterbury say the best method is high frequency…i think it would be a great topic for a roundtable
Well, I have been trying to search something more along the lines of “super-high frequency training”… no luck to my specific definition to it… before I ever thought to find body building info on the web I failed to develop the body I wanted and gave up. What I started to do when I gave up, I started to pile on mass.
What I started doing is what I want to find in my searches. Does anyone else do this?
I started lifting each major body part for a single heavy set shy of failure every couple of hours… in other words, every time I took a break from the computer.
I don’t know why, I just did it but it worked and started giving me mass and strength. Yeah, I read all Thib’s stuff and all about HFT but they all consist of multiple sets.[/quote]
well if you look at chad waterburys “bodybuildings new frontier” or “perfect 10” training it has you doing it 2x a day. not exactly what your talking about but probably the closest you’ll find.